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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 6:56 pm 
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Mr. D. wrote:
Sorry to tell you Nonagon, but they ARE sitting around cackling about how we "played into their hands".


Are you seriously suggesting that the authors and proponents of SOPA/PIPA want to take down Wikipedia?

Mr. D. wrote:
Result? People went to other stores to buy what they needed. The immigrants lost a days worth of income. One store owner even lost his store to an electrical fire, which had someone been there they could have stopped the fire sooner and saved the store. The government didn't look or think twice about it, but still collected their taxes for the day.


This situation doesn't correlate at all. The Day Without Immigrants only shut down those places that had immigrants, there were many other places you could go so as you say, it was largely a failure. SOPA/PIPA would shut down the entire internet. Short of running wire and setting up routers to form your own private network there would be no alternatives. People won't be able to "just go somewhere else", this is what the blackout are pointing out. Your argument is invalid.

Mr. D. wrote:
I really do understand the point of the blackouts is to raise awareness. But they should not be total blackouts.


You realize if you hit escape you can use Wikipedia as normal right?

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:09 pm 
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Those of you that haven't done so already should get an account on http://www.opencongress.org and vote against this thing. Something tells me that they are going to set a new record for votes against a bill on these two.

Besides providing a forum and a "citizens vote" for each bill that is passing through congress opencongress.org will also allow you to view the full text of each bill as well as summaries compiled by multiple sources. It also shows who sponsored the bill (the duche bag is from my state) and how your congressman and senators have voted on it each time it has come up for a vote as well as how much lobbiest money they have accepted both for and against it.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:15 pm 
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jackdoud wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting that the authors and proponents of SOPA/PIPA want to take down Wikipedia?


They ARE wanting to shut down sites with copyrighted material. So if Wikipedia falls under that, then...


jackdoud wrote:
This situation doesn't correlate at all. The Day Without Immigrants only shut down those places that had immigrants, there were many other places you could go so as you say, it was largely a failure. SOPA/PIPA would shut down the entire internet. Short of running wire and setting up routers to form your own private network there would be no alternatives. People won't be able to "just go somewhere else", this is what the blackout are pointing out. Your argument is invalid.


My argument is 100% valid. It's the EXACT same thing. The point of the total blackout is the same as them shutting down their shops. "This is what it would be like without us". Even if those shops sold exclusive items, the shop owners still cut off their nose. Same with these sites. You can't go anywhere else (you actually can, but that's not the point here), so this is the world without us. That's what SOPA is trying to do. Make a world without these sites.



jackdoud wrote:
You realize if you hit escape you can use Wikipedia as normal right?



That's a negative ghostwriter. The pattern is full.

It does not work.


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:32 pm 
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Mr. D. wrote:
My argument is 100% valid. It's the EXACT same thing. The point of the total blackout is the same as them shutting down their shops. "This is what it would be like without us". Even if those shops sold exclusive items, the shop owners still cut off their nose. Same with these sites. You can't go anywhere else (you actually can, but that's not the point here), so this is the world without us. That's what SOPA is trying to do. Make a world without these sites.


Ok, I obviously don't posess an adequate level of skill with the english language to explain to you how wrong you are. I'll drop it as it's not worth trying any harder on my part.

Mr. D. wrote:
That's a negative ghostwriter. The pattern is full.

It does not work.


Huh, works for me

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:43 pm 
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jackdoud wrote:
Ok, I obviously don't posess an adequate level of skill with the english language to explain to you how wrong you are. I'll drop it as it's not worth trying any harder on my part.


That or you just don't poses an adequate level of logic to see that blacking out a web site to protest a government blackout is dumb.



jackdoud wrote:
Huh, works for me


None of 10 different computers I have tried, running everything from XP, Vista and Win7 will do it. So I am finding it doubtful.


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:46 pm 
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D, by midnight tonight, how many more people do you think will know about SOPA that didn't know about it before, consider the a handful of the top visited websites, including #1, are spending the day raising awareness?

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:48 pm 
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Mr. D, you lost all credibility with me when you essentially suggested that those opposing SPPA/PIPA should resorts to acts that are deemed illegal by most.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:49 pm 
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SOPA's goal isn't to destroy sites like Reddit and Wikipedia. Like I said before, it's a bill that aims to stop piracy. But the wording of it is so poor the consequences of one infringement (for example a user on a site posting copyrighted material) could end up with an entire site being shut down. Youtube wouldn't last a day. Film and media companies seem to think that the DMCA isn't enough to protect their works, even thought they wield their power without care already (See: The Mega Song). They are not trying to "make a world without these sites". They are trying to stop piracy, but it just so happens they're trying to do it in the most moronic way possible.

And on the topic of the blackouts: There are ways around it. People are smart. Wikipedia's mobile version still works from what I hear. I don't think making your site inaccessible for 12 hours is the end of the goddamn world for them. It's like a day of site maintenance, but with a message.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:53 pm 
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ThrowingChicken wrote:
D, by midnight tonight, how many more people do you think will know about SOPA that didn't know about it before, consider the a handful of the top visited websites, including #1, are spending the day raising awareness?



Image

Mr. D. wrote:
The way you are doing the page is the best way. total black out like Wikipedia is doing is really dumb. They are keeping people form their content for 24 hrs. That's like Wal-Mart closing it's doors for 24 hr sin a protest. But you just did what should be done. A quick splash page. That gets the message out and still allows people to access the sites content.

Bravo. :)




Ron Daniels wrote:
Mr. D, you lost all credibility with me


Oh darn, My life is meaningless now.

Ron Daniels wrote:
when you essentially suggested that those opposing SPPA/PIPA should resorts to acts that are deemed illegal by most.



Um, What????

So by saying that these sites should put up a splash page that gets the message across, but still allows people access to the site, that's illegal ???? Are you a congressman by chance?


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 7:58 pm 
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This is why I normally stay out of the "off topic" forums on sites. I am not here to discuss "off topic" I am Her to discuss the general site content (in this case, Ghostbusters).


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:01 pm 
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Mr. D. wrote:
None of 10 different computers I have tried, running everything from XP, Vista and Win7 will do it. So I am finding it doubtful.


You're doing it wrong.
http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/18/wikipedia-blackout-workaround/

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:02 pm 
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Mr. D. wrote:
words.



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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:18 pm 
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jackdoud wrote:
Mr. D. wrote:
None of 10 different computers I have tried, running everything from XP, Vista and Win7 will do it. So I am finding it doubtful.


You're doing it wrong.
http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/18/wikipedia-blackout-workaround/


Mr. D. wrote:
That's a negative ghostwriter. The pattern is STILL full.

It STILL does not work.


ProtonCharger wrote:
Mr. D. wrote:
words.



Not sure what the video is saying since 'The Office" is one of stupidest shows on TV. So, since I refuse to subject myself to it's low standards and immaturity I can not allow myself to watch that video clip.

However going by the title "Why are you the way that you are?" I can answer. I am the way that I am because I do not just follow everyone around like a mindless drone. I look for logic in things like this, and in this case I see none. I do not just jump on the band wagon because everyone else is. I look to see if I agree with the music they are playing.

In this case I agree with the music, but think they are playing out of tune.



I in no way support SOPA or PIPA. I am all for stopping it. But, as I have said over and over, and apparently is not being read or comprehended,
Mr. D. wrote:
A quick splash page. That gets the message out and still allows people to access the sites content.


Mr. D. wrote:
total black out like Wikipedia is doing is really dumb.










I am going back upstairs now to the site topic (Ghostbusters) content. I'll leave this down here in the basement.

Thanks for the conversation all.


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:26 pm 
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Assumtion #1:
Peope are dumb

Assumtion #2:
People are lazy

Assumtion #3
People are used to ignoring popups of any kind online and close them without even reading them

Given these 3 assumptions the best way to get stupid lazy people to act is to force them to see both the results of inaction and give them an easy way of acting.

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it illogical.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:33 pm 
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jackdoud wrote:
Assumtion #1:
Peope are dumb


Then spreading the messages is pointless, they won't understand it.


jackdoud wrote:
Assumtion #2:
People are lazy


Then spreading the messages is pointless, they won't do anything about it.


jackdoud wrote:
Assumtion #3
People are used to ignoring popups of any kind online and close them without even reading them


Then spreading the messages is pointless, they will go to another site that is not blacked out.


jackdoud wrote:
Given these 3 assumptions the best way to get stupid lazy people to act is to force them to see both the results of inaction and give them an easy way of acting.


See all of the above.


jackdoud wrote:
Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it illogical.


Um... So all of us that disagree with SOPA/PIPA saying it is illogical because of the way the bill is written are wrong?



P.S. Remember what it means to ASSUME. It makes an ASS out of U, not ME


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:47 pm 
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Are you intentionally being obtuse or do you just like thinking your right?

You're arguing my assumptions and ignoring my point which refutes your position. If your defense is that telling people is pointless. Do you even understand the arguments we're putting against you? You seem to be adamantly ignoring and misinterpreting them. Odd for someone who claims to be a logical thinker.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:54 pm 
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Not to add to the argument but hitting esc while the wiki link is loading worked for me.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:54 pm 
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Mr. D, allow me to reword my point; Is clicking away a pop-up notice like displayed on GBfans, something no more annoying than a common pop-up ad, going to raise the same amount of awareness and public outcry that entirely prohibiting access to content would? We all know the answer is no. You know the answer is no. Wikipedia, Reddit, & Google have had anti-SOPA notices for weeks now, yet today, when Wikipedia shuts down, when Google (which I state again, I don't believe went far enough though I'd guess there may be some possible litigation if they shut down for a day) blocks out their header, when the porn sites shut down for a day (keep your hands of my porn! crowd), they manged to get 14 senators to take a stance against or do a 180 on their previous stance, including a co-sponsor of the bill.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:57 pm 
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jackdoud wrote:
Are you intentionally being obtuse or do you just like thinking your right?


Maybe he's being acute.

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Sorry....

I'm sorry....I couldn't help myself.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:58 pm 
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jackdoud wrote:
Are you intentionally being obtuse or do you just like thinking your right?

You're arguing my assumptions and ignoring my point which refutes your position. If your defense is that telling people is pointless. Do you even understand the arguments we're putting against you? You seem to be adamantly ignoring and misinterpreting them. Odd for someone who claims to be a logical thinker.



1) I am right.

2) I am hearing everything you and others are saying and see your point, However none of you are hearing what I am saying.

So let me clear it up for you, and the others...


SOPA/PIPA = BAD


TOTAL BLACKOUT = DUMB


SPLASH PAGE/ALLOWING ACCESS TO SITE = POINT MADE, INFO PASSED, SITE ACCESS GRANTED.





Would you live on the street to protest a rent increase?



ThrowingChicken wrote:
Mr. D, allow me to reword my point; Is clicking away a pop-up notice like displayed on GBfans, something no more annoying than a common pop-up ad, going to raise the same amount of awareness and public outcry that entirely prohibiting access to content would?



For people that frequent a site the way we frequent GBfans. When I logged on and saw the splash page I read it to see what was up. So to answer your question. YES. It did the SAME job as a total blackout. It got the attention. I clicked the links , sent my message to congressman, ect.


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 8:59 pm 
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what does living on the streets to protest a rent increase have to do with this? completely, and totally unrelated.


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:00 pm 
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Quote:
Um, What????

So by saying that these sites should put up a splash page that gets the message across, but still allows people access to the site, that's illegal ???? Are you a congressman by chance?


Quote:
I am all for the meaning behind the protest. But this is not going to hurt the government any. If you want to get their attention, black out the banks sites, the media sites, the major tools the government uses to control the people.


For us to "black out the banks sites, the media sites," we would need to engage in illegal activities. We do not own said sites, nor do any of the sites who are currently "blacked out" own said sites. Thus, a person would be required to "hack" those websites. That is, in fact, illegal.

That's what I inferred you meant from your original statement. And no, I'm not a congressman; thanks.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:05 pm 
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Ron Daniels wrote:
Quote:
Um, What????

So by saying that these sites should put up a splash page that gets the message across, but still allows people access to the site, that's illegal ???? Are you a congressman by chance?


Quote:
I am all for the meaning behind the protest. But this is not going to hurt the government any. If you want to get their attention, black out the banks sites, the media sites, the major tools the government uses to control the people.


For us to "black out the banks sites, the media sites," we would need to engage in illegal activities. We do not own said sites, nor do any of the sites who are currently "blacked out" own said sites. Thus, a person would be required to "hack" those websites. That is, in fact, illegal.

That's what I inferred you meant from your original statement. And no, I'm not a congressman; thanks.


Ok. Let me rephrase it for you.

"I am all for the meaning behind the protest. But this is not going to hurt the government any. If you want to get their attention, the banks sites, the media sites, the major tools the government uses to control the people, need to have a black out."


There. Now it can't be twisted to sound like I am saying we should hack sites and black them out.


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:23 pm 
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With all the "why isn't Wikipedia working?" posts I have seen today, I'd say that people needed a little more than a post it note, they needed to get hit in the face with it. You also ignored the rest of my post, where I went on to say that all those major sites already have had notice posted for weeks now, and in less than a 24 hour period managed to get 14 senators to go against SOPA. Now you are arguing with results, just for the sake of arguing.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:25 pm 
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Mr. D. wrote:
Ok. Let me rephrase it for you.

"I am all for the meaning behind the protest. But this is not going to hurt the government any. If you want to get their attention, the banks sites, the media sites, the major tools the government uses to control the people, need to have a black out."


There. Now it can't be twisted to sound like I am saying we should hack sites and black them out.


You do understand that this blackout is voluntary... right? Its created by the site's owners to show its visitors what it would be like not having access to those sites any longer. If you want bank sites to be blacked out, you're gonna need to either hack them.. or buy them.

So far it has been super effective with congressmen jumping from their support of the bills. I guess that = government not caring. Seems to be working to me.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:29 pm 
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ThrowingChicken wrote:
With all the "why isn't Wikipedia working?" posts I have seen today, I'd say that people needed a little more than a post it note, they needed to get hit in the face with it. You also ignored the rest of my post, where I went on to say that all those major sites already have had notice posted for weeks now, and in less than a 24 hour period managed to get 14 senators to go against SOPA. Now you are arguing with results, just for the sake of arguing.




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AJ Quick wrote:
You do understand that this blackout is voluntary... right? Its created by the site's owners to show its visitors what it would be like not having access to those sites any longer. If you want bank sites to be blacked out, you're gonna need to either hack them.. or buy them.

So far it has been super effective with congressmen jumping from their support of the bills. I guess that = government not caring. Seems to be working to me.




Yes I know it is voluntary. What's the point?

Never underestimate the government. sleight of hand. "We're backing off. You win" (behind closed doors) "lets change the name of this bill, re word it a little bit, pass it under the table and we're good"


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:30 pm 
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It's not really twisting what you said when you fail to convey your meaning.

But if you want me to pick a few nits, it can still be inferred that you want someone other than the site owner to do said "blacking out." By stating, "[i]f you" you imply that we are the interested parties without, in any manner, qualifying the Banks and Media as interested parties. Further, you also say "hurt the government." That implies you wish harm to befall the government, which is different from what these webmasters have attempted to do--to inform the public.

That may not have been what you intended to say, but it's what you typed and posted.

Let me show you how you could have avoided this:
I fully support the the idea behind the protest, but I believe the execution is poor. Most of the websites are insignificant to the government. But if some big corporate entities were to join in the black out, I bet the government would be more inclined to pay attention.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:36 pm 
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Mr. D. wrote:
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Funny, I get the same feeling.

You're say that blocking sites doesn't hurt the government...

..of course not, as we've stated repeatedly that's not the point of the block in the first place. The passage or failure of the bills has no effect on the government either way other than possibly influencing the next election. Either way the government will still be there. The point is to figuratively 'hurt" people to show them what happens if the government does pass the bill. As I pointed out, blocking a site entirely hurts the generaly stupid and unwashed masses more than a pop-up add that they are already used to igoring and closing without reading.

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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:38 pm 
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Ron Daniels wrote:
It's not really twisting what you said when you fail to convey your meaning.

But if you want me to pick a few nits, it can still be inferred that you want someone other than the site owner to do said "blacking out." By stating, "[i]f you" you imply that we are the interested parties without, in any manner, qualifying the Banks and Media as interested parties. Further, you also say "hurt the government." That implies you wish harm to befall the government, which is different from what these webmasters have attempted to do--to inform the public.

That may not have been what you intended to say, but it's what you typed and posted.

Let me show you how you could have avoided this:
I fully support the the idea behind the protest, but I believe the execution is poor. Most of the websites are insignificant to the government. But if some big corporate entities were to join in the black out, I bet the government would be more inclined to pay attention.



Well, seeing how I didn't say "SOMEONE SHOULD HACK THE BANK SITES AND BLACK THEM OUT" Then yes it is twisting what I said.


Your wording is not the same as what I was trying to say. I could care less about the rest of the "big corporate entities". I said what I was getting at. the BANKS and MEDIA.


BTW By stating, "if you" I imply one thing, and one thing only. YOU = THE PEOPLE OF THE U.S.

Ron Daniels wrote:
Further, you also say "hurt the government." That implies you wish harm to befall the government, which is different from what these webmasters have attempted to do--to inform the public.




That's 100% correct. And not any different then what any of these protestors are after. they are trying to inform the public so the public can bring down SOPA (aka the government).



jackdoud wrote:
Mr. D. wrote:
Talking to you is like
Image


Funny, I get the same feeling.


You would.


I'm done with you.

Quote:
You cannot add administrators and moderators to your foes list.


What a shame


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PostPosted: January 18th, 2012, 9:43 pm 
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SOPA isn't the government. It's a piece of legislation. It doesn't create any new agencies. The government does not generate any revenue from it. With or without it, the government is in the same position as it was yesterday.

I'm sorry but if you think it is the government, you need to find a way to access Wikipedia to learn about the structure of the United States federal government.

_________________
(03:25:20) Amaya: obama will never beat Texas
(23:36:20) Aelia: Ron Daniels is a classy and upstanding fellow. If he were to run for president, I would most certainly vote for him because our country needs a good leader in times of peril.

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