View new posts | View your posts ABurns Pack Finished with Tons of Pics on Last Page

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Sounds like either bad temp or the paints reacting poorly to each other.

Bad part is the paint is all from the same manufacturer. I sanded it down this morning and tried going back to the hammered paint and it did it again. The silver did not react to the hammered. So, I am planning on sanding down the alice frame, bumper, and shell. Then coat with primer, hammered, silver, semi gloss. I am hoping the silver will divide up the semi gloss and hammered so there is no issue. I don't really want to do hammered only since the hammered is very shiny. Plus, all the other pieces is coated with semi gloss. Big pain in the rear and I am going to need to buy more paint by the time this is over for the gun. I am hating the paint at the moment. Temp should be fine since it is indoors at around 68-72 degrees. I would not have thought there would be a reaction with all rustoleum paint. Waste of paint.

Below is an example of what it is doing. This is not my picture. I did not take a photo of my paint reactions.

Fourth time my pack has done it. I tried sanding and black painting over it with hammered. Still did it. I tried sanding it down to the bottom and priming it, still does the cracking effect, but went all over. This was in the garage. We should be around 68-80 degrees, so not exactly bad tempurature. Hell, I got some new gas for the mower and it is in the garage. This morning I sanded down the shell for about 25 minutes and coated it with primer again. 5 minutes later the cracks appear again. I just about took a sledge to the shell this morning and was going to buy a whole new shell and paint the darn thing with latex paint.

I think I figured out the problem. The residue. I was sanding and not fully dusting off the particles. The primer was drying and thickening and the paint was basically tearing. My own little california fault lines. I am going to sand down the shell again, dust it off, take a wet paper towel and remove the particles, let it dry for an hour, and try primer again. If it does not work this time I will be really mad. My dad is no help at all. He keeps going it is not acting right, are you sure that paint works on fiber glass. Tell him everytime I know it does since it they work for other builders on this site (made sure of that) and I had no painting problems until I was on my fourth and final coat of paint. The black semi-gloss. I had sanded a few really raised areas due to the hammered paint. That is what caused my original problem (I hope). I really hope this works. This is so frustrating. Can't wait for the paint part to be over.

I'm going to walmart to get paint. This rustoleum paint stinks. I've been reading on the net and complaints all over the place.

Sorry to hear of your paint problem. I just did a coat of Rustoleum flat black today. This was over a few coats of Rustoleum black primer that was on for a couple weeks. It turned out OK for me.
One thing is some areas came out really rough like there was dust on the surface. I just left it dry and then bushed off the duaty/rough spots with a large shop brush. This smoothed it out some.
I suspect the "hammered" paint you used is only intended as a top coat. Anything over that caused the cracking. Also it's alway a good idea to let each paint coat dry for an extra long time,maybe a week or two or more. That way all the solvents are fully dry. If they get sealed in , then the top paint surface becomes cracked or "crazed".

What kind of primer are you using? There are special primers for plastic. you may have better luck with one of those.

I used rust automotive primer. I'll try a plastic style primer. I would have made the hammered the final coat but it was way to shiny.

Got the paint. Going with krylon. Gray primer, black hammered, and black satin. Technically I can skip the primer, but with all the engraved webbing from rusty paint I need help to make a smooth surface. I didn't love the semi glossy look on the few parts that came out fine. Textured and satin should look great. On a plus side krylon paint dries a lot faster. I am going to complain to rustoleum. Might get a refund, but I doubt it.

When you say semi-gloss, do you mean semi-gloss black? Over the hammered? Does hammered even have a texture for it to pick up? Or did you decide not to go with hammered simply because it was too glossy, so you tried to paint over it?

The reason I ask is because if gloss is the issue, krylon, and probably rustoleum as well, makes a matte finish clearcoat. I did a test with that over gloss charcoal gray and it fixed it right up.

On the hammered, it didn't even have to be black. I was not intending that to be the final layer. My goal was to add texture and then paint the top layer with my favorite color with the amount of gloss (or lack there of).

Had to give up on painting. For now. I painted with the krylon paint (no issues) but the defects were as plain as your nose on your face. Even though I sanded down the reaction areas the paint raised or more commonly deepend the cracks from the rust. paint. Sanding is not an option since there are too many detailed areas. My solution ... Paint thinner. I am going back to the beginning. I know there is stronger paint remover, but I got to be careful since it has to be applied to fiber glass, metal, and resin. Made some major headway tonight. About a quarter of the paint has been removed. Mainly the cyclotron and powercell area.

Damn man. Sorry to hear about your painting problems! What a set back, but I hope you get back up and running with the new paint. You've still done a great deal to this point so don't give up! I'm starting my pack within the next couples weeks; just waiting for my shell and parts to arrive!

Keep up the progress pics as they're definitely going to help myself and others on the same road!

Good luck!

Thanks man. I came close on the give up part. Well, I should say gave up on the shell not the proton pack. I almost hit up Mike Nelson or bought that pack kit on the for sale section. The damage seemed to be into the shell. It is a good thing my Dad had some paint thinner. The ridges and cuts were awful. However, last night those were the areas I focused on. The chemical reactions only hurt the paint and not the shell. It will just take a lot of elbow grease. The person at home depot recommend lacquer remover, but I opted not to do that. It says it will remove epoxy. I think I read some where epoxy has resin in it. Not to mention the first two layers of the shell are made from resin as a detail layer with Exoray shells. It is coming off fairly easy (Thank God!!). Just getting a little high, lol. I am wearing gloves and a respirator. I should get the pack cleaned off this weekend. Then I will clean up my accessories. My bumper is badly damaged on the front squarish section. The other pieces had some cracking from the Rustoleum primer, so I will use paint thinner or I will sand it all off. I am back on track. Just a week's delay due to paint issues.

Man, getting the paint right on any prop is the pits. There is no quicker way to completely ruin a lot of good progress than to get hit with a bad paint formula.

Its hard to tell from that picture, but looking at Rustoleum's website I wonder if the hammered paint is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing but in a more dramatic way. Take a look at the examples:

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=180

It is always possible. I found out I was not the only one burned by the rustoleum paint. Kind had the problem as well. Below is what happened to him.



Mine looked similar to that. Mine had a lot larger cracks with mini cracks between the ridges. I sand them down and the paint would eat into the crack making little ridges on my pack. Looked awful. I counted and I had 19 individual areas like that. Some was just for a line or two. Others were areas as big as a snickers bar.

I was really upset at that Home Depot person. She treated me like an idiot. Well if you use those kinds of paints it will do that, didn't you know that. No. If I had known that I would not have bought the paint. Worst part is I didn't just grab paint off the shelves at random. I asked one of the clerks there if this paint can be applied to these materials, can I use these materials on top of each other without problems, and are they good paint. The answer was yes, yes, and yes. I should have came unglued, but she was not the one who told me that originally. The good news is any crack bigger than two strands are now gone. I just have a few of the minor strands left on the sides of the shell.


This is an early shot, but the yellow stars kind of reflect the size and general amount of damage. I was sick, but the thinner is working great. This is a pre-paint photo, so no damage underneath the stars. Was not gonna take a photo of that zombie pack.

I was kind of needing to go to home depot any way. I bought some mini paint rollers for the n-filter fluff inside of the screens.

Ahh, yeah thats pretty messed up, thanks for posting it.

From THOSE photos I have another question.. how thick are you laying this paint down with each application? It should take quite a few passes with a few minutes of dry time between them to even get initial full coverage. If you put down the primer first, sanded, and the cracking didn't happen to that coat, I would have doubts that it would be the fiberglass/resin causing a reaction.

I recently bought some Rustoleum professional gloss black enamel and had no problem laying it over some Duplicolor sandable primer. However, I have had bad reactions when accidentally laying oil based primers down before acrylics! YIKES!

I'm still confused by the mechanics of what caused it. I started the shell with a medium sand. Then, I applied primer with a 2-3 light coats of primer painted over a couple of minutes. I gave it a really light sand. Just enough to make a smooth surface. The automotive primer I was using really evened itself out without much muscle being required. After that, I applied the silver rust. paint. Just 1-2 thin coats. I did not really want a silver pack and the initial idea was to have a silver layer for possibly adding a worn look or in case of accidental deep scratches. I am removing this step with my re-painting. I then applied the hammered paint. All was pretty much good. I had a two spots were the paint kind of raised up, but nothing like the scratches. I sanded them down. The spots were more like little pencil head tips. I painted on the semi-gloss black and it began cracking.

I tried sanding down the areas and re-applied the hammered. Problem multiplied even though I had sanded completely. Must have a chemical problem in grained in the sanded fibers. It was at this point I noticed my bumper as well as my other accessories had at least one if not two spots.

I decided to sand it all off. One of the paint, not primer is probably the culprit. So, I sanded it all down to semi into the primer. No point going into the resin/fiber glass. I re-applied the primer and the cracks appeared again on all the pieces. Bigger and badder.

I stopped using rustoleum and bought some krylon paint. Their gray primer, black hammered, and satin. (Even if the paint originally worked, I did not like the semi-gloss. Still way too shiny)

I know the primer is fine. I did get cracks with the krylon paint, but they were in the exact same spot as the rustoleum areas. Had to be residue. I thought if I sanded and then painted the hammered (hides defects with bumpy texture) and then the satin (less apparant flaws) that it would be ok.

So, the plan is to stick to one primer and one paint. Debating with myself between satin and hammered. I am leaning towards just satin, but it really depends on the surface after I remove the paint. Problem with hammered is it is not black. It is dark gray.

I guess the only way to really know is to paint something else (like a bucket or plastic box) using the same steps and brands to see if it has the same reaction. Hammered is a nice idea, but might actually be overkill when other paint can be made to look used or distressed very easily with a more "surgical" method. I painted my first with Krylon semi-flat black (I don't know if its even made in the same formula anymore) and it ended up looking very metallic in person once I put in the worn paint effects and added dust...

How long are you waiting after you paint one coat to paint the next? I'm pretty sure you're either supposed to paint the next coat within 10-15 minutes of the last, or leave it to dry for several hours. If you're letting it dry for an hour between coats, then that probably is what's leading to the cracking. (Though you did mention it cracked anyway even after you sanded it down...)

Deng man sorry see your having problems with your painting. I used all the rustoleum products (primer, silver and hammered black) and I didn't have a single issue. Now there were a couple times when I was testing the paint on some scrap stuff before I actually tackled my packs where I had some of the same stuff happening. What i found out was causing it was a combination of GhostGuy's explanation...



And just simply spraying to thick of coats. In this picture it looks, to me, like thats what Kind might have been struggling from. It really looks like there was just to much paint applied at one time. And I only say that because if you look at the holes where the clippard attaches to and the hole in the upper left corner of the picture on the PPD, you can see where the paint looks like it beaded up and started dripping down into the holes


Spray painting is a hard process to get down and have it done right and its not something where you can paint from primer to silver to hammered to satin in a couple days. It takes a lot of time and patience. When I painted my pack I spent 1 day on each step of the process then let it dry for about 4 days and gave it a light sand with 0000 steel wool and a wash down to make sure no dust or anything was there, then let it dry overnight before starting the next color step.

So when I was doing primer I would spray a really light/fine coat, not trying to cover up every part of what I was painting (this is the key do not try to cover every square inch in one go around). Let it sit for 10-15 min, like GhostGuy mentioned, till its dry to the touch. And do it again. Until what I was painting had one complete coat. Then I would start the process over again in order to finish with 2 full coats of the primer. I left that to sit for 4 days. Came back gave it a light sand down with the 0000 steel wool make sure to wash it down and let completely dry and repeated the process of light fine coat, wait 10-15 min, light fine coat, etc. until I had full 2 coats of the silver metallic. Let that sit for 4 days, light sanding with steel wool, wash down, let dry and then repeated the process as well with the hammered black. It sat for another 4 days before handling it during the assembly.

Also there is a skill to actually spraying the paint you cant just hold it full on and wave it around trying to get it to lay evenly, it wont work. This part is really hard for me to explain I wish I had a video camera and some extra paint I would make a little tutorial for you.

The paint on my packs came out perfect no orange peeling, chipping or cracking anywhere at all during the entire process. It can work my packs are proof its all about time and patience.

Let me know if any of what i said didn't really make sense or if you have any questions just hit me up.

Exactly what these guys said. Spray in fluid motions side to side allowing for overspray. Make sure each coat is thin, its OK to still see unpainted portions poking through. You can usually reapply same paint/color coats (thinly sprayed to increase dry time) within 10 minutes. However, make sure you wait at least 24 hours before following up with a coat of differing color and repeat the same process. It also helps to sand with high grit paper between coats. Good luck!

I don't really think it's necessary to wait four days between priming and painting. I've always painted as soon as the second coat of primer is dry. But yeah, you don't want to lay down too much paint at once, and you may want to try waiting several days between painting with one color and painting with another. Especially if yo're laying the coats on thick.

Anyway, when painting, I just go across and back once quick, go around the piece doing that, let it dry for a few minutes, then go back over it again being quick with the spraycan. I may do this three or four times, since it's hard to get botht he inside and outside of a piece in one go.

I finished with most of the painting on the shell. Boy was that a pain in the you know what. I used paint thinner to get the shell basically back to the shell or primer in some of the sensitive areas. Gave it a heavy sand. Primed it. Sanded. Primed it again. Sanded it. Last night I sprayed with a some hammered paint. All the little defects was gone except for one little area. I had my dad helping me and he went a little too far sanding on the left side of the cyclotron. I ended up with a ridge. The primer could not level it off very well. I sanded it down to about even. Then I used hammered hoping the texture would blend in. I still ended up with a light barely visible ridge. I let it dry over night. The hammered helped a ton and the ridge was barely there. This morning I sanded down the area. Tonight I will spray it over the area and I should be good to go. I would have sprayed it this morning, but my tarp is filthy from being outside and the paint thinner stains. I decided not to bring it in since it was going to rain today. Plus brand new jeans, didn't want to get dirty before going to work. I should be fine for tonight. If it works out, I should begin re-working on the side pieces. I just need to sand the old primer till even and apply some new primer over the top. Apparently, that plastic paint you recommended ghost guy does the trick. Almost there. With any luck, these pieces will get done this week and I can start fitting on all the pieces by the end of the week. Can't wait to get to installing Exoray lights.

Paint should not be this hard. I was giving the dry times double what it said on the cans at least. This time I am waiting at least 12 hours between painting it.

Went a little nuts with the bedazzler?!

I'm going for broke here. But your problem might be aggravated by the silver paint. Especially since you're using hammered texture paint. Normally, the hammered paint is formulated to go over bare metal. Like industrial equipment, sewing machines...

Silver (especially aluminum) paints are a little funky in their formulation in order to get the silver effect and don't normally "like" any other paint over it. I'm assuming that it basically hates the hammered paint in your case.

Test it out on something without any primer or silver.
Also, from looking at the images here, it definitely looks like it was sprayed on way too thick. And the different solvents are incompatible with each other.
And especially with hammered paints, there's a specific technique to applying it.

When I was building my halo armor years ago, I painted the green over silver paint for the "weathering" but the green ended up peeling off like it was a vinyl sticker. i had to sand all the silver off, then repaint.

I'll never use silver as undercoating again.

Lol guys. The above picture is kind's pack. I was doing thin layers and proper drying. Not 4 days but on average 2 to 4 times the drying time on the can. I think it was caused by the aluminum as well. When I was sanding and later paint thinner the aluminum seemed to be dissolved. Almost there. I had a quarter of an inch of visible outer ridge from were I sanded. I sanded again and light coated. Should be good now. If not one more light coat over the 4 inch area should match it up to the surrounding paint. I am going to begin removing paint on some of the side items soon. I know the bumper will need it. The rest should be sand only and then paint. Exoray is going to mail my in pack gun lights soon. I did buy some satin clear coat but with all the fun I will probably save it for later. My ecto goggles could use a darker shade of black.

Blacker than black, black.

The painting process is where I'm afraid I'll totally screw up my shell (Alkaline), but I feel better after reading this. Good stuff. Was there a specific type of Rustoleum you were using? It seems that everyone has a different opinion.

Sticking to one brand of paint is generally the best policy. If you prime with Rustoleum, top coat and clear coat (if you wish) with Rustoleum. Mixing brands is recipe for disaster.

Personally, I like Krylon Fusion. It's made for plastic, which is traditionally hard to get paint to take to very well, so it bonds AMAZINGLY well to just about anything, cures quickly, and leaves a nice finish; it also makes a great primer for their other Indoor/Outdoor paints, which come in nearly any color you can imagine. I've never had any kind of reaction between different types of Krylon spray paints, from their Fusion to their Hammertone, Indoor/Outdoor, or Clear Coats.

You can get the Hammertone paints in Krylon or Rustoleum if that's the texture you're going for, so it all comes down to personal preference.

Beyond that, always, always, ALWAYS, no matter what type of paint you use, paint with multiple, light, even, sweeping coats. Start in one spot and lightly sweep over the whole piece, give it a few minutes, then repeat until you get a nice even coverage. NEVER try to get full coverage on the first go; it will bubble, crack, peel, run, drip, and just generally look terrible. Beyond that, remember to let the paint dry and sand between full coats.

How many layers would you recommend? Could you get away with, say, a primer and a flat black? Or would it be better to have a third layer in there as well?

Sorry, it's not my intention to hijack ABurns thread as I've been VERY curious about the painting process and this seems like a good time to ask some questions.