[Cyland Props]

Continued from the Labels thread:

http://www.gbfans.com/community/viewtop ... 6&start=30

That thrower is definitely unique, and I'm pretty sure it's the only time it's seen on screen. In the gozer encounter, all four guys have packs but none of them have that thrower attached. It might have been made specifically for that close-up shot. I also think it's the only thrower with a working bar graph. I noticed that this shot is the only time we see the bar graph move up and down, in all other shots where we can see the throwers turned on, the bar graph is solid orange.

That's because that's the hero thrower which is intended only for close up glamour shots. It's the only one with fully functional lights and it is attached to the hero pack. The only "functional" lights the other throwers had were the white blinker by the vents, the switched vent lights and the orange hat that indicated to the production team when the flash bulbs in the ends of the tubes were spent and needed to be replaced before the next take. All other lights were full-on and static.

What screw?

There's a flat hex screw in the center of the HGA

As to the Hero pack lights, they all had fully-lit bargraphs but only one had one that moved.

Ok First The HGA is just a hollow capped off cylinder. The four Alein head screws are just screwed into the cap plate, what holds it on are two large pop rivets attached to a plate inside the cylinder. The dimple is a punch mark from the hole punch used to make the cap plate, some reason the hole got flipped to the outside on this one. The outtie dimples on the PPD disks are just thin material flipped with the dimples in.

The gun lights:

The electronics in the first movie hero packs were pretty complicated. They had several Eproms on two large boards with several dip type switches which allowed changing the program used. Ever wonder why some of the packs rotate clockwise and some counter clockwise? Dip switches changed the dirrection. Our electronic board that simply blinks the four leds and does the powercell thing uses electronics that was around for many years before the movie but for some reason they used Eproms............... to run programs.

The bargraph shows the build up to full power, markings to the side show, one quarter, one half, three quarter and full power. Like on the trap, when the bargraph lights from left to right and finally the full containment light, lights, the gun's bargraph lights from bottom to top and fluctuates till full build up and the full power light, lights. Once the bargraph reaches the top it stops and remains lit. The orange light, which is not a "hat" light but a low profile indicator light, you can see the black base in some of the photos, is actually the full power indicator.

What you've been looking at all these years is actually the begining and the end of the cycle and thinking it's two separate things.

[ChapterMasterTu'Shan]

Is there anything official to back all this up?

[Interceptor9C1]

Is there anything official to back all this up?

a riddle or a warrant or something?

[| alkaline |]

I like the theory on the lights. I always thought that the bar graph on the wand and the power cell should be in sync. It kind of makes sense that the bargraph would be a way for the user to know the power level of the cell with out having to look on his/her back.

[jackdoud]

Gah, I had a long post all typed up and then my computer crapped out. The gyst was essentially what TJ said, pics or it didn't happen. With the evidence that the Electronic Effects board was used at one point and only the thrower with the orange hat light by the vent is shown with a working bargraph (in the "heat 'em up" scene and the behind the scenes documentary on the DVD) saying that all the packs had fully designed lights doesn't make sense. Why spend the time and money doing a complicated system for all the packs when a simple setup is cheaper, faster, less prone to error and not necessary.

As to the hat light I still think it's a circuit break indicator for the flash bulbs, having a second (or third if you buy the bargraph as indicator as well) indicator for the power level is a bit excessive. I'll have to look though the scenes again to see when it's lighting.

[mburkit]

And I'm assuming you deduced all this from photos you have seen that you are not allowed to share? And how are you determining the sequence of the lights just from photos?

From what we can deduce from what is seen in the movie, the bargraph on the gun was a static light on all the packs except that close up, hero thrower from the "heat 'em up" scene. In the movie, you never see the hat light or low profile lamp or w/e it is over the light bar ever lit.

As for the hat light at the end of the gun, which is what Jack was referring to, its only ever light after they fire. He and I figured since the wiring for the flash bulb at the end of the gun runs past that hat light, it would make sense if that hat light was an indicator light to show that the flash bulb has been used and needs to be replaced, just like on older style flashes.

You can't dispel myth with MORE myth. You have to use critical thinking and use what information is given to you. Unless you have more information to give, such as unseen video or photos of the inside of a hero pack or gun, you aren't going to dispel anything.

[ProtonCharger]

"im cyland props. i know stuff that you dont know. i wont share it until i want to and i wont share it all."

how long have you been a member of the community? why are you just NOW sharing this information you're not backing up with fact?

nobody likes a jerk.

[Vincenzo330]

Why are you all getting so worked up? Cyland is trying to help out and bring information forward and you immediately dismiss it as rumor. If I were him I wouldn't share any more, since all it does is cause drama. Stop being standoffish and ungrateful and take the man at his word. He knows what he's talking about. If he was ALLOWED to share more I'm sure he would. He's a good guy.

[mburkit]

Why are you all getting so worked up? Cyland is trying to help out and bring information forward and you immediately dismiss it as rumor. If I were him I wouldn't share any more, since all it does is cause drama. Stop being standoffish and ungrateful and take the man at his word. He knows what he's talking about. If he was ALLOWED to share more I'm sure he would. He's a good guy.

Vince, the issue is he makes claims that he expects us to take as fact without anything to back it up. He's been doing this for years. Something does not become fact unless you have proof to back it up. I know he has photos he can't share with the community but until he can or comes up with proof from screen caps/scenes in the movie, its all just heresay. And the fact he has photos doesn't show the lighting sequences of the lights on the pack. He is making claims of things that you never see in the movie. How are we supposed to believe that?

Like I said before, you can't dispel myth with more myth. If he has something to back up his claims, then feel free to share it with the rest of us.

[jackdoud]

Agreed with mburkit. While I'm inclined to belive what cyland is posting I don't agree with some of the conclusions he comes to. I'd like to discuss it but that's not possible as he's the one with all the new evidence.

[Kingpin]

I'll have to look though the scenes again to see when it's lighting.

I'm really not sure about that, true, this doesn't show the flash bulb lit... but having the orange hat light be an indicator of a blown flash bulb seems unneccesarily extravagant, honestly I feel they just added as many lights as they could to make the Proton Gun more interesting:

[gbrob]

Kind of off topic, but I've been thinking about the green switch for the thrower lately and came up with an idea.

Are we sure the green lever actually released the clear tube? I'm thinking that after they twisted the front handle upwards to release the tube, they used the lever to bring the tube back in, and putting the handle back down locked the tube in place. If that makes any sense.

Hope it's okay to put that in this thread....

[jackdoud]

Kind of off topic, but I've been thinking about the green switch for the thrower lately and came up with an idea.

Are we sure the green lever actually released the clear tube? I'm thinking that after they twisted the front handle upwards to release the tube, they used the lever to bring the tube back in, and putting the handle back down locked the tube in place. If that makes any sense.

Hope it's okay to put that in this thread....

That's a whole other kettle of fish better off in another thread. Suffice it to say that it's pretty solidly confirmed that the green lever is the release and the "rotating handle" was just an accidental thing done as an off-the-cuff joke.

[Cyland Props]

DIE MYTH, DIE!

This:



is a second movie "hero" pack, and I'm using the term Hero very lightly.

Why are you all getting so worked up? Cyland is trying to help out and bring information forward and you immediately dismiss it as rumor. If I were him I wouldn't share any more, since all it does is cause drama. Stop being standoffish and ungrateful and take the man at his word. He knows what he's talking about. If he was ALLOWED to share more I'm sure he would. He's a good guy.

Vince, the issue is he makes claims that he expects us to take as fact without anything to back it up. He's been doing this for years. Something does not become fact unless you have proof to back it up. I know he has photos he can't share with the community but until he can or comes up with proof from screen caps/scenes in the movie, its all just heresay. And the fact he has photos doesn't show the lighting sequences of the lights on the pack. He is making claims of things that you never see in the movie. How are we supposed to believe that?

Like I said before, you can't dispel myth with more myth. If he has something to back up his claims, then feel free to share it with the rest of us.

And there's the rub all summed up nice and neat. How does someone in the middle of the dust bowl nowhere near being connected to hollywood become such an expert by only having one vantage point? A movie 107 minutes long .

I'm sorry if that comes off as being a dick but it's true, I've seen things that you haven't and so has Vinny there.

I wouldn't believe it if you told me that the packs made gin fizzies because I know differently. What we see on screen is a small sample of what they did.

[Chace]

a riddle or a warrant or something?

a riddle?

You mean writ.....WRIT!

As in writ of certiorari

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certiorari

We now return you to your original argument.

[Prologic9]

...saying that all the packs had fully designed lights doesn't make sense. Why spend the time and money doing a complicated system for all the packs when a simple setup is cheaper, faster, less prone to error and not necessary...

You're looking at it from the logic of "how do we create what was seen in the movie."

When the props were designed and built, they didn't know at all how they'd be shown in the movie. Props get cool stuff that never shows up on screen all the time.

[WeeMadHamish]

You're looking at it from the logic of "how do we create what was seen in the movie."

When the props were designed and built, they didn't know at all how they'd be shown in the movie. Props get cool stuff that never shows up on screen all the time.

Production companies regularly make use of different versions of the same prop for close, medium and long shots. Close shots usually involve one or two A-grade versions of the prop that are highly detailed and have more complex bells and whistles, usually called the "hero". The rest of the shots are usually made with lower-grade "B" props, not only because less detail is required, but because they're simpler and more durable and can withstand more abuse and/or daily handling than the fancy "hero" props.

It makes sense that only one or two "hero" props would have all of the fancy animations that you'd never see in a medium or long shot.

[Kingpin]

And then there's the C-grade props, the stunt stuff... such as the foam Proton Packs worn as the guys tumble into the hole in the street, and cower from Stay Puft, which didn't even feature animated lights in the Proton Pack.

[kevinj319]

I feel partially responsible for starting this

What I was originally trying to point out is that the thrower with the orange indicator and black gun knobs is only used in one scene. If they had four fully-functional throwers that could be reprogrammed to do anything, why make a special one just to use for that shot?

In the close up shot, the bargraph goes up and then back down again. It doesn't remain lit, and no other lights come on when it reaches the top. The forward light by the front knob is on the whole time. Neither top light comes on. The internal vent lights come on when the switch is flipped, and that's all. This is completely incongruous with how the lights are shown working in every other shot. Additionally, all the wide shots of the throwers show the lights on all four acting in exactly the same way.

So we have four that work the same and only one that is different. The one that just happens to be used in the close-up.

Now I can't say that Cyland is wrong, he very well could be right. But without evidence the more likely scenario is one hero thrower and four semi-hero throwers, plus the foam atrocities.

[jackdoud]

Kingpin and WeeMadHamis: Exactly

I'm not contesting that the hero pack had extensive electronics. I'm contesting that they ALL(minus the obvious stunt packs) had extensive electronics. There's no reason to do so when only a few shots required it and doing so would raise the overall time and cost of the props.

[Cyland Props]

IWhat I was originally trying to point out is that the thrower with the orange indicator and black gun knobs is only used in one scene. If they had four fully-functional throwers that could be reprogrammed to do anything, why make a special one just to use for that shot?

That's the point, they didn't make just one special for that shot, the whole production hinging on one prop is the worst thing that they could have done. That wand was pulled out of the line up and painted black. It still has stickers on it they are just painted black.

Funny thing is when I get an e-mail from none other than Jack Doud there and my reply is instantly put up as his own on the board and there is no doubt thrown in, my posts gets this pitch forks and torches treatment with Jack leading the way. Hmmm.........

[kevinj319]

That's the point, they didn't make just one special for that shot, the whole production hinging on one prop is the worst thing that they could have done. That wand was pulled out of the line up and painted black. It still has stickers on it they are just painted black.

This makes sense. Although I would have to question how wise it was to paint over the stickers and the knobs just before a glamor shot that would show them off! But that's another story.

Funny thing is when I get an e-mail from none other than Jack Doud there and my reply is instantly put up as his own on the board and there is no doubt thrown in, my posts gets this pitch forks and torches treatment with Jack leading the way. Hmmm.........

I don't really know what this means. But hey, no disrespect meant here.

[ThrowingChicken]

Cyland, I think the pitch forks come from a long long history of members feeling like you are being withholding, regardless if you actually are or not, regardless if you have a good reason to be or not. We would like these things to be peer-reviewed but when one guy holds all of the evidence and can't share, I can see how it starts to get frustrating for them for this guy to keep saying "no it's like this" without showing them why.

That doesn't mean they need to be dicks about it, either.

[nick-a-tron]

Cyland can you tell us what photos you have and why you cant share them with us please?

[mburkit]

I am not trying to be a dick, I'm just trying to explain why we need some sort of proof. If you have a theory, explain why you have a theory and how you came to that conclusion. If you just state something as fact with nothing to back it up, you can see why we question you.

[jackdoud]

Funny thing is when I get an e-mail from none other than Jack Doud there and my reply is instantly put up as his own on the board and there is no doubt thrown in, my posts gets this pitch forks and torches treatment with Jack leading the way. Hmmm.........

Wait..what?

I have no idea what this is refering to, please explain. I am genuinely confused.

[Cyland Props]

That's the point, they didn't make just one special for that shot, the whole production hinging on one prop is the worst thing that they could have done. That wand was pulled out of the line up and painted black. It still has stickers on it they are just painted black.

This makes sense. Although I would have to question how wise it was to paint over the stickers and the knobs just before a glamor shot that would show them off! But that's another story.

My guess is that they were messing up the shot somehow and were painted out , that shot was done in post production after they used them in the movie.

Cyland can you tell us what photos you have and why you cant share them with us please?

1. I don't own the photos, images or rights to the photos.
2. I can not act as an agent of the owner of the photos.
3. I did not take the photos.
4. Only a handful of people, if even that have the photos, so it's pretty easy to figure out who leaked the photos if I posted them.
5. They are covered by a N.D.A.

They are photos of the outside and inside of a full tilt hero from the first movie and redressed for the second.

Personally I don't know why you guys aren't going after the guy who has the Slimeblower pictures or a few other people around here who are holding out. I'm trying to help you out but you keep kicking me in the shins, at some point I'm just going to stop trying and let you drown.

"im cyland props. i know stuff that you dont know. i wont share it until i want to and i wont share it all."

how long have you been a member of the community? why are you just NOW sharing this information you're not backing up with fact?

nobody likes a jerk.

Ditto. Why now? Well you never asked.

[Borzou]

Who would we have to talk to about obtaining the rights to release these photos?

[Filandrius]

Ditto. Why now? Well you never asked.

Why now?

Seriously though, while it would be great to have access to those photos, honestly we don't need them if Cyland discloses all the info that's on them. We just have to trust him a little. This info is priceless, and we shouldn't spoil this.

And I agree with Cyland, info hoarding isn't a first here. There's a LOT of people who have access to exclusive information but simply doesn't disclose it at all. I don't get the logic behind this; what is the value of exclusive info if you don't use it? In theory you could make a 100% accurate pack with it, but you couldn't show it afterwards. Don't forget that this is supposed to be a community, people!

[jackdoud]

Ditto. Why now? Well you never asked.

We can't ask if we don't know that someone has them in the first place. This is the first I've heard of slimeblower pictures who has those and what are they of? How is asking for evidence a kick in the shins? That's how discussions work, someone makes a claim, another party asks for proof. The ball is back in your court.

Back on the topic this thread is supposed to be about, you say the pictures are of the inside of a GB1 hero pack. This is of one pack or multiple packs? If it's one pack than we're back to my initial supposition that there is only one "hero" pack that has full functionality and the rest had lesser electronics. If you have seen pictures of multiple packs with the same electronics in them that's different.

Since you can't share the pictures perhaps we can come at this from another angle. I've always theorized that the electronics seen in the background of this shot were the thrower electronics:



Given the time the props were made and the functionality shown in that thrower the level of complexity always seemed consistent with what would be required. Can you confirm whether these are in fact the thrower electronics that you have seen or are they something else entirely?

Also, I'm still waiting for an explanation about your earlier allegation against me as well. I truly have no idea to what you're refering. I've only ever contacted you once and that was via PM. As far as I recall I never publicly posted the info you gave me and never represented it as my own to anyone I shared it with.