By LandoSystem
#4830082
I recently commissioned a pack for my girlfriend because it was advertised as being super light weight and sturdy.
It practically disintegrated the first time we tried it on.

The "super top secret" way it was built appears to be:
Pour some plastidip in a mold.
Spray a thin layer of spray foam behind it.
Profit.

The pack has torn at the bolts (wood screws) that hold it to the mobo. It's also splitting in half, splitting where you holster the wand and generally squishy and shitty.

Does anyone have any tips on how to harden this turd while keeping it light weight? I fiberglassed my last vacformed shell and it added a lot of weight. I'd like to avoid that if possible. I also don't know how that would react to spray foam.

I was thinking of some rigid spray on bed liner for the outside but I know nothing about it.

The excrement in question:
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This thing is TERRIBLE. The majority of the parts completely popped off within hours. Other parts came off with even the slightest pressure. It doesn't sit flush with the mobo, the shell is so thin you could see the interior lights through the foam... just awful. I'm stripping it and trying to work with what I have.
Last edited by LandoSystem on May 11th, 2015, 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
By Hammer
#4830083
Where did this come from? Pics would help as well. This doesn't sound good.
#4830084
I added a pic. The inside is just a mess of spray foam insulation.
I'd rather not discuss the seller so he doesn't get any publicity. If you see something advertised as "lightweight foam stunt pack" just avoid it. He's banned from here and for good reason. I went with him anyway because I needed something light and because friends vouched for him. Those friends have been thoroughly scolded and I've learned my lesson.
#4830086
He's banned from here. Not from this other prop community. Friends vouched for him. Turned out badly. Trying to salvage it. This has been covered. Thank you.
#4830090
LandoSystem wrote:...The "super top secret" way it was built appears to be:
Pour some plastidip in a mold.
Spray a thin layer of spray foam behind it.
Profit....

Genius! Pure evil genius.

Stiff or soft foam? Not that it matters much now but soft foam would have been better than stiff. For the most part, any strengthening agents would be added during the mixing of the foam. After set up would be more of a coating to be applied on top of the foam to form a protective shell.

Craft store glue formulated for use on foam might help glue back the missing parts and would be the way to secure it to the Mobo.

Hard to tell from the picture, but are those metal screws and fittings that were used on the pack? To quote Egon,"That would be bad." I'm guessing those are what ripped off the pack?
#4830099
It's rigid foam on the inside. The plastidip or rubber material on the outside flexes and rips and he used what looks like very little superglue to hold a lot parts on. I slightly poked the red light cover on the crank gen and it shot off like there was a spring under it. (note the big hole there... looks like he was going to add a light but didn't).

The fittings are resin. Some pieces have a small rod or nail and he jabbed it into the foam and hoped it would stay. Several slid out the first time she walked around in the pack. Others have screws in them and he's just screwed them into foam. They twist and wobble like crazy.

The shell was attached to a sintra mobo. The mobo flexes and bows and looks like crap and he's used sintra shaped into L-brackets to hold the shell to it. The pack is secured to the L-brackets by big nasty looking wood screws.
This guy literally used rusty screws on parts.

I'm looking mostly to make the exterior stiffer so it doesn't flex as much and pieces won't just pop off when I move. I also want to get rid of the squishy rubber look of plastidip and reinforce bits like the ion arm that will break off the instant someone taps me at a Con.
jackdoud wrote:He appears to have either used or recast one of my video game clippards. Is it foam or solid resin? I didn't sell many of those into the wild.
Sent a PM.
#4830120
Sorry to see what you have ended up with. I may have missed this if it's already been said but if you wanted a light weight pack for your gf why didn't you just build her an sc pack? They aren't heavy. Even if you fiberglass the inside. I did that to mine and it's still much lighter then the one I made years ago out of wood. For your sake I hope you can salvage this thing.
#4830121
I should have gone that route

He offered a video game style pack and wand and that's the style my girlfriend wanted

With slime blower upgrade and wand it weighs 10 pounds
Maybe less

He also promised delivery before a big convention where I was going to propose in full costume

Of course he didn't deliver in time and we ended up with a pile of junk

(Sorry about the odd formatting my phone has a strange glitch where it freezes every time I use punctuation)
#4830128
From the way you describe it, if you remove the Plastic-Dip, you will also remove the surface detail. Sound like you will have to do a bit of re sculpting as you go.

The Old School method for "shelling" foam was to coat it with Elmers glue thinned with water. Fortunately, you now have some choices. This place offers quite a few.


http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/Foam-Coat-Foam-Glue-Foam/
#4830204
jackdoud wrote:I found the guy's build thread on therpf. He had his clippard built in 2012 and I didn't make mine until 2013 so he's clear on that front. The guy's still a dingus though.
Glad it's not recast!
He's a total dingus. Everyone keeps saying he seems like such a nice guy and he's still trying to make amends for bad deals in the past. They haven't seen him when he decides he wants to screw you over and turns into a completely different person.
I'm convinced if my local franchise didn't do so much business with him and if we didn't have a friend in common who went to bat for me this guy would have stiffed me.
In his defense this was advertised as a 'stunt" pack so a lot of the sloppy details can (I guess?) be excused. Doesn't make up for stuff popping off, falling apart or splitting in half.
Also in his defense the wand looked alright. Though the resin is so thin in spots it feels like a cheap solo cup. So thin you can see through the resin.
CaptCyan wrote:From the way you describe it, if you remove the Plastic-Dip, you will also remove the surface detail. Sound like you will have to do a bit of re sculpting as you go.

The Old School method for "shelling" foam was to coat it with Elmers glue thinned with water. Fortunately, you now have some choices. This place offers quite a few.


http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/Foam-Coat-Foam-Glue-Foam/
This makes sense. I can't really add anything over the rubber / plastidip exterior because it's already separating from the foam. Anything I add to the exterior would just grip to the plastidip and fall off.
I'll look into adding something to the foam to make it more durable. Then maybe I'll see about encasing the whole thing in rigid bed liner material, though I suspect it would add a lot of weight and finding some without texture may prove difficult.
Thanks for the help!
#4830560
Dan AKA wrote:Do you have a photo of the inside of the pack? Really the more photos you can provide the better.
Here's a shot of the inside and a few places where it's splitting.
The seller has a phobia of anyone making alterations to his work. He routinely panicked when I mentioned doing upgrades. He's been telling people any paint will melt his foam and ruin the packs so we shouldn't do our own work on them. He supposedly wants people to ship them back to him with details of what they want done so he can do it. It's because his reputation is on the line.
Really.
So I decided to test some paint on the foam in the back. Plastiip spray, spray resin coating and regular krylon paint. Those are the 3 black splotches on the inside.
Image
Image
Image
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SpaceCoastGBs wrote:Have you considered adding some Great Stuff on the inside of the shell to add even more support? You mentioned it was thin layer of foam, why not add couple more layers?
Maybe. I want room to add speaker and video game style electronics.

On that note, he claims to have exclusive, top secret reference images from Atari that nobody else has. The wand, to be honest, though fragile and poorly made, LOOKS accurate and not bad. The inside is a complete mess and it will fall apart if you breathe on it too hard but it looks good.
The pack had very few video game upgrades. No place for the lights on the gun box, it was missing the box with lights near the cyclotron and it didn't have any extra sculpting or lights on the powercell.
#4830923
Egads, man! When you said a thin layer of insulation foam, I thought you meant about 1"...but that's so thin it offers no support at all. I'd be worried about the wand mount shattering the whole thing.

I can tell you what I did with my foamcore based packs, since they're rigid but still need support, and that's spray a layer of Great Stuff insulation so that it's about 1.5-2 inches thick around the sides. Any excess I trimmed off. I still have plenty of room for my lights and a 4.5" speaker (mounted up in the crank box).

I can't really think of anything else you can do in this situation - you can't fiberglass the inside because of the foam layer, and there would probably be a reaction between the two. Truck bed liner, like you mentioned before, is actually brittle and won't add much, if anything, to strengthen it.
#4830962
It's a nightmare. Absolute nightmare.
I nearly finished it up last night. I set it up and turned everything on and let it run for several hours just to see how it would do. It had a gbfans wand light kit, a gbfans sound board, Crix pack lights PLUS a Jupiter electronics pack and wand kit. It ran for 8 hours with no problems!
But the wand fell off.
Yeah.
I had it hooked up to the dixie hook (it was supposed to be a v hook but I believe he swapped it out for a dixie at the last minute) and the cheap spacers he used under the hook split in half (looks like rotten wood or maybe foam) and the hook ripped out of the foam. The wand fell about 6 inches to the carpet and broke in several places because the resin is just so thin and brittle all over.

I was about 90% done with it for a show tomorrow. I still need to add the extra box and lights next to the cyclotron (another thing he said would be included but was not) but I've made several upgrades. Still need to dd some decals, some touchups and additional weathering.

Image



This thing WILL NOT survive a single troop. I'm going to do a complete rebuild over the summer. What a waste of over $800.
#4831183
So the maker of this turd has been posting all over Facebook about how he's so proud of his creation, even leaving creepy comments on my girlfriends page and our franchise page. I've decided to type up a comprehensive list of everything that was wrong with it and everything I did to make it bearable. Enjoy.

While handling it the very first time:
- A piece of the slime blower had broken off inside and was rattling around.
- The front gun grip fell off.
- A section of the blower barrel broke off. Not a greeblie stuck on, but a piece of the tank portion of the blower attachment itself.
- You could see through the resin on the blower because the resin was so thin. We held it at eye level and a dim overhead light in a parking garage shone through.
- The blower attachment on the wand was loose and wobbled.
- The wand barrel was crooked and wobbly.
- He did not include wires to run the wand lights to the pack.
- The small slime hose on the front of the wand was loose and leaking then popped off.
- The clippard on the wand fell off.
- The knurled knob on the wand fell off.
- The bike light on the pack near the ion arm had broken loose and was dangling by a wire.
- The green slime tank on the pack was wobbly.
- He did not include padding on the neck bar of the Alice frame, though he said it would have extra padding.
- The beam line tube was comically floppy and loose.
- The blue lens on the power cell was cut too small and there was an ugly gap between it and the shell.
- The hole he had cut in the shell for the power cell lights was crooked and uneven.
- Similarly, the slot for the wand bar graph had been so sloppily cut that it looked like an oval and the yellow lens he placed over it was too small.
- The shell had popped loose from the mobo because he didn't screw his giant wood screws into the flimsy sintra brackets properly.
- The ion arm was splitting off from the shell.
- The pack did not sit flush on the mobo.
- The pack was very thin in places and the flashing lights were visible through it.
- He did not include game-accurate detailing on the pack gun mount.
- Did not include the additional game accurate box next to the cyclotron.
- The vent nozzle was a crudely modified crank knob and not accurate to the game.
- There was no additional detailing for lights on the power cell.
- It did not have TVG accurate lights on the pack.
- Nearly every decal was of low quality and printed on cheap paper by a cheap printer. They were fuzzy and looked like printer paper.
- Decals on the clippards (pack and wand) were peeling off. Most other decals were peeling or had completely fallen off.

After we drove it a half hour to our house (the first night we had it) and I had more of an opportunity to look it over:
- While moving the wand back and forth, it split in two where the barrel meets the body.
- The red lens for the video game caution / vent light popped off the pack.
- Wires all over the pack and wand immediately slid out (they had been punched into the foam with nothing to hold them and just naturally fell out). 3/4 of the wires had fallen out or broken loose within a few minutes.
- The lens on the bike light broke in half. This whole piece had been recast and was not a real bike light.
- The ion arm rod broke off when I barely touched it.
- The filler tubes under the power cell were wobbly.
- The trigger box on the wand crumbled into pieces.
- A portion of the blower tube crumbled where the front barrel grips had been. Cracks were forming all through this piece and it was disintegrating.

After a small amount of dissecting and looking it over (first night cont. and second night)
- Pieces had been glued in place with very little super glue or hot glue. Everything had been glued to paint or to some kind of plastidip material and they ripped right off. The material also had too much give and was squishy so pieces like the red warning light didn't have anything stable to grip to.
- Pieces that weren't glued in place had a small piece of copper wire shoved into them - then the other end was stuck in the foam. Naturally there was so little friction holding them in place that gravity, movement or the slightest pressure (SLIGHTEST pressure) caused these parts to fall out.
- The slime blower casting was incredibly thin at the base (the widest part closer to the rear grip). There was substantial pooling of resin at the front end.
- The 2 main halves of the wand (body as one half, front barrel the other) had been secured with a single screw. It had stripped out the incredibly cheap, brittle, soap like resin and the two halves had separated entirely.
- The bottom piece of the wand had a few big, nasty screws drilled through it and into a thin piece of sintra. This was to hold a large piece, including the dixie hook, in place.
- That sintra piece was itself screwed into the edges and corners of the gun box. Many of those screw holes were stripped and screws slid out with the touch of a magnetic screwdriver. Other screws had missed the gun box entirely and weren't screwed into anything. And others were screwed into some foam like material that would provide nothing for the screw to grip onto. This piece had been superglued down to the gun box. A small amount of superglue was likely the only thing keeping the bottom of the wand together.
- The interior of the wand was just a mess of some kind of foam like material, sintra and some other paper-like sign material (obviously cut from signs, possibly "Free Sprint phone" sale signs from radio shack or something).
- He had drilled holes that were too large or used switches that were too small because some of them were secured with some brittle bondo like material. It looked terrible from the outside and frightening from the inside. One of the switches broke loose and fell inside the wand.
- It looked like he soldered a few wires for jupiter wand led's and he did a positively terrible job at it. Some led's had shorts or had completely separated and didn't work. Some wires looked scorched and melted and nasty.
-The wand bar graph had been installed upside down.
- His extra video game style lights in the wand did not work. He had told me in advance they were christmas lights and would not be accurate but I expected them to work, at least.
- The enlarged vents on the wand were crooked and look terrible. He also accidentally painted some of the diffuser material he put in the vent. It all looked very sloppy and ugly.
- The enlarged heat sink looking thing on the side of the gun wasn't flush with the gun box.
- He used blue tinted resin on that piece to help make the interior lights look blue. This resin is full of bubbles and looks bad when the lights shine through.
- It was missing a trigger tip on the gun barrel. Also the gun barrel was not properly frosted and doesn't look long enough.
- The slime tank was stuck to the filler tubes. The filler tubes were made of shitty, brittle foam. He used long, rusty screws that look like they came from a barn to screw the tank to the tubes. I believe one good tug would destroy this entire piece.
- Filler tubes were riddled with holes. It looks like he positioned them wrong or was trying to devise different a way to mount the tank and just drilled wherever he wanted, then made no attempt to fix or cover his mistakes. It looks like garbage.

Upgrades and repairs I did:
- Stripped it entirely. Didn't take much because nearly everything had already fallen or broken off.
- Painted the inside black so you can't see through it. Interior lights don't shine through.
- Reinforced the outside shell and the mobo with rigid epoxy spray. I only had time for one coating but it helped harden the outside quite a bit and helps keep the mobo from flopping so much (it bowed and bent every time you took a step). It could use a few more layers of this spray.
- I repainted the outside satin black and re-weathered it.
- I added spacers between the mobo and the alice frame. He had riveted it directly to the frame.
- I moved the center bolt on the mobo up about 2 inches to its proper location, and this helped with mobo stability and kept the top from flopping as much.
- I added a new bolt from the alice frame just under the neck bar to the mobo. This keeps the mobo almost completely rigid and reinforces my speaker.
- Added a 5" speaker and it is just deafening. Like possibly too loud. Painfully loud. He told me sound wouldn't work because the foam would soak it up. This obviously isn't the case.
- Added a GBfans sound kit.
- Reinforced the external parts with copious amounts of gorilla super glue gel and bolted pieces down where possible.
- I cut out the 2 additional lights on the front of the power cell and the small circle shaped light on the side of the power cell. I also cut a larger hole for the red caution/vent light. I used the Crix pack lights for the cyclotron. I used the jupiter lights for the power cell and the new lights on the power cell and for red warning / vent light.
- I added green lenses on the cyclotron.
- Attempted to secure the filler tubes with more screws and lots of glue.
- Took the same approach with the slime tank.
- Rebuilt the bike light and mounted it with velcro.
- I frosted the wand barrel and added an aluminum trigger tip.
- I added a gbfans wand kit.
- I used the Jupiter wand kit for the extra TVG wand lights.
- I drilled out the tip of the blower and added a green led. It's wired to the GBfans Aux output and fires green any time the gun fires. I also added a simulated slime effect to the inside so it looks like it's going to shoot green liquid instead of green light.
- I attempted to add a new screw to hold the wand in place but there wasn't enough resin or space to work with. I ended up gluing the screw in place and slathering the exterior in gorilla glue, jb weld and quiksteel.
- I also glued the blower attachment down to the standard wand barrel. It's secured with screws but it was loose and wobbled. It doesn't wobble now.
- Replaced the clippard and glued it in place.
- Replaced the knurled knob and glued it too.
- Repainted most of the wand and tried to fix the many, many light leaks.
- Reshaped the opening for the wand bar graph (inside and out since there was a large build up of foam behind it).
- Added a reflector for the vent light.
- Replaced the diffuser for the wand vent.
- Rebuilt and reset the trigger box.
- Reattached the gun grips.
- Replaced the slime in the small hose on the wand.
- Added a few new high quality GBfans decals to the pack.
- Added a 12v blue brick battery setup to replace his too-damn-many-9v's setup (I'm convinced it was a scheme to sell more radio shack batteries)
- Attached the wand and hose to the pack and gun. He wants to attach the slime hose with a single wimpy screw on each end that goes directly into this cheap, soft resin. This yanked out immediately and I don't currently have a way to securely attach it.
- Glued and repaired the torn spots on the shell as best as I could. I also added strips of duct tape along the inside around these spots. Not the most elegant solution, but it seemed to have worked.
- He used really flimsy sintra shaped into an L instead of aluminum brackets. It's almost impossible to actually screw into these because they want to flip backwards when your screw touches them. So your screw is never going into the pre-drilled hole at all. It's a frustrating and time consuming process to attach your shell and more often than not you end up drilling a new hole in the sintra. Problem here is that you can't tell if you're making a good connection - you could just have the tip screwed into the sintra, which is sitting at an angle. This means it could just pop off at any time, especially while walking. Very frustrating and scary.
- The wand isn't that heavy (about as heavy as my Throwing Chicken wand, maybe even less so). He thought it would be a good idea to secure the dixie hook to the pack by putting a small piece of wood on the inside of the shell. But the shell is so thin and fragile that the weight of the wand pulled the piece of wood through the foam shell. Also, the spacer he used between the dixie bracket and the shell appears to be rotten wood and it split and fell off.

The only good things I have to say about this is that it's light weight. In his defense, the main reason I bought from him was because I needed something light. Even with 4 sets of electronics, a big battery and big speaker, it's still very light. The wand also looks accurate (though when looking at HQ screen caps, you can see some inaccuracies).

But it was so fragile. So, so fragile. A tiny bump would break it, a slight tug would pull it apart and you could crush this wand with one hand. My upgrades and rebuilds added very little weight and it's now so much sturdier and quite a bit better looking.

This was a poorly engineered, poorly fabricated, poorly constructed piece of junk that is easily, far and away the single worst prop purchase I've ever made on every conceivable level. The seller is lazy, a liar and not too bright. And damn is he a creepy weirdo.

This was not a good value, at over $800. This would be a good value at $100 for someone who needed it a week before Halloween. This is advertised as a stunt pack with detailing like a hero. The detailing was sloppy and inaccurate, and it's far too fragile to be a "stunt" or a "beater."
By Keller
#4831994
I purchased two GB2 packs, no wands, from the same seller on the same recommendations. Three guys from our (LandoSystem's and mine) franchise have these packs. I didn't hear anything terribly negative until the delivery issues came up.

One of my packs is fine. Not perfect, because of detailing and sloppy connections and wiring, but fine and "usable."

The second one however is cracking, peeling, shifting, and creaking. Pretty much everything LandoSystem said. The electronics were installed UPSIDE DOWN. Neither pack had a way to attach the battery without taking the entire shell off to plug into a really basic, cheap port. I had to cut a block of wood to put inside to hold the Dixie hook so it wouldn't just fall apart.
LandoSystem liked this
#4832048
I read back over this and that exhaustive list of problems and modifications and it isn't even that comprehensive. There are a lot of things I didn't mention that still bug the daylights out of me and I didn't even address the horrible, horrible buying experience. That part was so stressful and terrible I nearly stepped away from the hobby entirely. I thought for sure Keller wouldn't want anything to do with me afterwards since I roped him into this ordeal.

I've been working out a post to leave in his feedback thread for quite a while. I only wish I had taken more pictures before I overhauled it.
Lowberg wrote:I would just cut your losses, dismantle it, save the parts and buy a real shell to rebuild it with. It will be extra money and a lot of work but you'll be happier with it in the end
This is what I'd really like to do. I'm concerned with the added weight of a resin or fiberglass shell because this one is just so damn light.
My girlfriend has a bad back and it was a real struggle to get her to dress as a GB. The light weight pack is what tipped her over the edge and taking that away would probably cause her to "retire."

This thing is like an illegitimate kid. On one hand, it is what it is. After I put a ton of work into it, it's somewhat functional and looks alright, or at least the best I can make it look.
On the other hand, every time I look at it, it makes me angry. The original builder is such an insurmountable jackass I see his smarmy douche face creepily leering at me.
Hoot liked this
#4832049
I'm starting to experiment with Eva foam, and am thinking of building a stunt pack with it. My guess is that it will be lighter, but at a small sacrifice of perfection-its foam.

I don't wanna see your gf retire. I'll see if I can let you know how it turns out
LandoSystem liked this
#4832500
Just a little update:

He's apparently trolling my social media posts and saw I did some repairs. He's saying he had no idea he made my ion arm hollow and can't think of why he round have done that in the first place. The thing is just open on the side now and the lower copper tips doesn't want to fit back into place. He offered to replace it, to which I replied I'd rather never use a piece of foam equipment again.

I have a new kit that's top notch coming in soon, so this pile of puke is getting overhauled and most likely will be for people to wear at our convention tables or something.
LandoSystem liked this
#4832503
EctoPrimer wrote:I'm starting to experiment with Eva foam, and am thinking of building a stunt pack with it. My guess is that it will be lighter, but at a small sacrifice of perfection-its foam.

I don't wanna see your gf retire. I'll see if I can let you know how it turns out
Thank you!! I'm looking forward to seeing what you can do with eva foam. She built a suit of Mass Effect armor out of some and we thought about building the pack out of it but ordered from this a-hole instead,
Keller wrote:Just a little update:

He's apparently trolling my social media posts and saw I did some repairs. He's saying he had no idea he made my ion arm hollow and can't think of why he round have done that in the first place. The thing is just open on the side now and the lower copper tips doesn't want to fit back into place. He offered to replace it, to which I replied I'd rather never use a piece of foam equipment again.

I have a new kit that's top notch coming in soon, so this pile of puke is getting overhauled and most likely will be for people to wear at our convention tables or something.
He trolled my FB too and posted sleazy comments on my fiancee' page about her pack and uniform. He was quickly blocked by both of us.
He's so... strange.
#4832588
The bullshit continues.
This piece of garbage came with a knockoff ALICE frame. The frame and crossbars are really thin and can be bent by hand (!!) and the shoulder straps were different colors, of course. They smelled slightly of mildew and felt a bit dry-rotted.
I put the ALICE frame and straps from my personal pack on this pack.
I had an event this weekend and put the shitty frame on my personal pack. It was just for a day and I was only going to display the pack at the table.
This morning I hoisted my pack over my shoulder and the stinky, dry rotted strap ripped and my pack fell HARD to the ground. And now it's destroyed.
EVERYTHING about this pack was trash.
#4832592
LandoSystem wrote:The bullshit continues.
This morning I hoisted my pack over my shoulder and the stinky, dry rotted strap ripped and my pack fell HARD to the ground. And now it's destroyed.
EVERYTHING about this pack was trash.
Awe damn man. I feel like we should take a moment of silence. That really sucks.
Greetings

http://i.imgur.com/1kB7fOZ.jpg

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