[Astantax]

Hey all,

Been a long time!

Anyway, does anyone know of a way to get cheap lights for one or more proton packs that doesn't involve an orange thingy that is supposed to be placed inside of a pumpkin (no offense, but it's not quite what i'm after)?

Two years ago I made a proton pack, and I found a toy ray gun at toys R us that had 4 lights that blinked EXACLTY the way the cyclotron is supposed to blink. Naturally, the same brand of toy has "upgraded" the set the ray gun came in, and the new version, while of higher quality, does NOT have 4 chasing lights. Very sad. I tried cannibalizing another cheapie ray gun I found that has 4 lights (they blink but they don't chase in the exact same pattern), but I did something a bit wrong, because the battery compartment started to smoke when I hooked it up for a test.

I'm not rich, so I don't have the money to buy a hyperdyne product (even though they are sweet and rock). Also, as you can tell, I am no whiz with electronics, and so the plans I found here on this site are way beyond my level of comprehension. We put a man on the moon; it blows me away that I can't figure this out.

Please help! This is my last and greatest hurdle in this quest. I have also decided that my current endeavor will be my LAST foray into the wonderful world of proton pack making (I say that now...)

- Brian

[KAD]

You can always use battery operated Christmas lights. They don't do any fancy special effects, but they are a cheap and effective lighting solution. I have had great success with these, especially the LED ones.

[Marsupial]

I'll be looking into making this in cheap electronics. Technically, there should be a possibility to make that with inexpensive chips and little soldering skills. I believe a 4017 decade counter would do the trick. let me look into it and I'll post some videos soon.

[Astantax]

That would be awesome, marsupial.

Do they even make battery operated chasing led xmas lights? If so how does one shorten the chain so that there are only 4?

[Exoray]

I'll be looking into making this in cheap electronics. Technically, there should be a possibility to make that with inexpensive chips and little soldering skills. I believe a 4017 decade counter would do the trick. let me look into it and I'll post some videos soon.

Sounds all good in principle and if you time is free, yes you can make cheapER electronics if you cut corners and go the cheap route... And yes a 4017 with a clock pulse and a few other parts will do the cyclotron lights, it's what I use on my kits for the cyclotron...

In the end if you are truthful with the cost of all the parts, you won't save much The only way to really save any substantial money is to find an over the counter toy or something that you are happy with the effect...

[reaper1394]

or you could be at a school with a parts room and be friendly with the people that work there....
but yeah, don't remember the link, but there is a great schematic on this site that uses the 4017's and a few others to build the entire proton pack light kit. Works well. Slight changes are needed to get it to work with LEDs though



and here it is
http://www.gbprops.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=2595

[Marsupial]

my point is simple - if what you want is a cheap circuit, off-the-shelf toy might not be the cheapest way. If you can solder your stuff and have access to basic electronic components, you should be able to make it for dirt cheap.

the key here is "if you want to" - some people prefer not touching electronics or paying for a better soldering job then they can do, or better circuit boards...

Here's a rough estimate of the cost of the cyclotron circuit from an online surplus store.

NE555 timer circuit: 39 cents
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAc ... odID=10094

4017 decade counter: 40 cents
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAc ... rodID=9985

Resistors... well, those are so cheap they are sold in packs of hundreeds... if you solder, you might already have 2 resistors around? cost would be about what 2 cents.
otherwise, you can spend more and get some potentiometer, leaves room for adjustments. Cranks the price a bit. matter of choice.
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAc ... odID=10115

Breadboard troughHole: 69 cents
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAc ... rodID=9190

Leds. that's where you will spend most of your cash as you want high brightness...
4 bright red leds (4000 milicandellas) at 35 cents each = 1.40$
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAc ... odID=11194

you'll want something to connect this to a power source, some battery pack, and if you battery pack is too powerfull, another 2 cents worth of resistor to protect your leds...


I don't count wires, soldering equipment and other tidbits.

overall, I think you can get out with about 3$ worth of stuff in most electronics surplus. Of course, if you don't have an electronic surplus store around, shipping might be a pain in the rear end, but my point is, this can be done for cheap for those who wants to do it. and you get to tweak it to be like you want.


As mentionned by someone else, schematics available there
http://www.gbprops.com/forums/viewtopic ... ead#unread
but you can find similar schematics everywhere on the net

here's my 5 minutes try of this circuit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WApp_n9KirY

Those who sell similar circuits have profesionnal-grade circuit boards, expert soldering skills and fancy equipment, this isn't for all fans - most will prefer not bother and buy ready-made boards. I simply feel that hyperdyne's option is overpriced... if you don't want to make it, please look around here for better alternatives, I'm sure there's someone here with the kit that's best for you.

And there's still the off-the-shelf toy option.

[fluxcapacitor]

Better yet, I came by this after clicking on one of the last posts videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgybVeASUF8

Don't know exactly what the components are but there are a lot less of them which is great.

[Marsupial]

its a very similar circuit - the 555 timer has been replaced by a 4093 sequencing circuit, other then that its abou the same. Not sure there's actually less comonents... but here's more options!

[fluxcapacitor]

Upon second look, your right, doesn't seem to be any more or less. Somehow my eyes got the better of me on that one. There are a lot of ways to do it hands down but you still need some skills to make it yourself. But it will prob never be as clean, bug free, and full of options as what Exoray does. But if your on a budget you can def do it yourself. Hell, you could even attatch a light to the end of a posicle stick with a light on the end and just have a motor turn it at a certain speed in the cyclotron to make it look like the lights are chasing if you want to or need to get really low tech.

[Exoray]

I simply feel that hyperdyne's option is overpriced... if you don't want to make it, please look around here for better alternatives, I'm sure there's someone here with the kit that's best for you.

Comparing a $3 very basic bread board 4 light cyclotron circuit to a full fledged production made pack light kit like mine or Jim's is apples to oranges...

Like I said above if you are being honest with the parts cost the spread is minimal, you admit you left several items like the cost of solder, wire, switches, battery pack/hookup shipping etc... And you don't have power cell lights at all, once you factor all that in it's not the cheap alternative that it appears on the surface... The 15 blue LEDs similar to the ones I use for the power cell, are .89 from bgmicro (they are only 3000mcd, I use 4000mcd) that will add an additional $14.00 to the cost in itself... And to design the circuit "correctly" you need to factor in that the 4000 series chips are not rated to source/sink the current drawn by super bright LEDs so you need to take this into consideration and the parts count and cost goes up...

You are right it can be done cheaper if you are inclined and willing to cut corners, but as several people who have tried will contest in the end to get the same results and an accurate light kit you are playing nickels to dimes with cost... Also if you look through that thread you linked to it will show that I have been more then willing to help people out in making their own... Hell I support making everything, but I also realize that sometimes it's just not cost effective in the end...



And yes that was a blatant plug for my kit, but it should show the apples to orange comparison to a homebuilt kit as you get everything pictured above including the battery pack (less batteries) full adjustable speeds and on/off switch, movie accurate sequences and a balanced correctly designed circuit that will accept any DC power source from 6 volt to 24 volts... Every part adds to the final cost, thats the being honest about the cost of parts I keep referring to...

[Marsupial]

That's what you get when trying to help people out with their choice of cheap alternatives...

the thread get derailed from the original subject to "how a profesionnal kit is better then a build-it-yourself-from-scratch concept"

[Astantax]

Firstly, thanks for the help marsupial (and of course everyone else)

Whether or not anything is overpriced, be it light kits or fresh halibut, is a matter of opinion. It depends on how much worth someone applies to an object of value. Undoubtedly Exoray's kits have inherent value, because they are special (you can't just find them growing on trees). In the mind of every person, there exists a personal value attributable to said item. My grandmother, for instance, probably wouldn't choose to acquire one if you GAVE it to her because she doesn't assign the same value to it that we do. Likewise, those of you who are sticklers for being 100% screen-accurate would probably pay MORE than what the hard workin' cowpokes on these boards are selling their light kits for, because accuracy is the most important thing, therefore high accuracy = high value (for you).

This is how I roll, in that regard. While undoubtedly I would LOVE an exoray or hyperdyne kit, they're too expensive for the particular task at hand. Perhaps I have been a bit vague. I have been vaccum forming proton packs. I have 4 of them, and they ALL need lights, and my last name isn't rockefeller (or hilton for that matter), so while there is no doubt that the products offered by exoray and hyperdyne are wonderful and awesome and valuable, their cost exceeds that which would be feasible for my already-over-budget (to the tune of about $500) project.

Additionally: I am no electronics wizard. I don't know one capacitor from another, but I know a little. I know that those chips you were mentioning are preprogrammed timer chips, and that a capacitor stores energy...I think. Marsupial, I want to use this experience as a way to sort of wean myself into the wonderful world of electronics, and I don't think that 4 blinking lights could possibly be too challenging a project for a beginner. In fact, I see it as a great learning opportunity. So the cheaper I can do it, the better. The more I can learn about electronics while doing it, the better. If I had money coming out of my ears I'd just as soon buy kits (and put off learning for another day), but alas, I do not, and therefore I cannot.

As a side note, I'd like to mention that I have visited literally every toy store, walmart, Kmart, CVS, and party city in central new jersey. NONE of them have toys that have lights that flash in anything close to the correct sequence. Two years ago I got lucky; toys R us was selling this cheapie "role-playing" set with a ray gun that had 4 blinking lights exactly like the cyclotron with a potentiometer built in! and sound (used the leads for an additional LED)! and a MOTOR for vibrations! I wish I'd bought 400 of them, because that brand 'upgraded' that action set and now it's more high-tech, but nothing like the cyclo lights. Le sigh.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

- Brian

[Astantax]

Actually..

Exoray, how much ARE you selling those kits for, anyway?

[Exoray]

That's what you get when trying to help people out with their choice of cheap alternatives...

the thread get derailed from the original subject to "how a profesionnal kit is better then a build-it-yourself-from-scratch concept"

It's not derailed you offered up a cheap cyclotron idea, as there have been a ton of post with other cheaper alternatives over the years... I was simply stating that to make an accurate and correct light kit for the pack there is no dirt cheap alternative like you suggested, if you are honest with the cost and going for the correct effect it's going to cost...

If you are inclined to build your own the plans are here for everyone, I even took the time to cross reference the parts list to a current supplier since Radio Shack no longer carries the parts, the information is there for anyone that feels they want to attempt to build their own pack lights...

Astantax as for price there is are threads in the For Sale section that details the price of my kits... The pack is $85 + shipping...

[Marsupial]

I want to use this experience as a way to sort of wean myself into the wonderful world of electronics, and I don't think that 4 blinking lights could possibly be too challenging a project for a beginner. In fact, I see it as a great learning opportunity. So the cheaper I can do it, the better. The more I can learn about electronics while doing it, the better. If I had money coming out of my ears I'd just as soon buy kits (and put off learning for another day), but alas, I do not, and therefore I cannot.

Hey Brian! I sent you a PM with some URLs.

that's how I see it too.
For a lot of people, buying pre-made removes all the fun of making the actual prop. I fail to see why there is such a negative reaction to talking about making a dirt cheap alternative. We all know that an accurate pre-soldered debuged and proofed circuit has a value, but not everyone is willing to pay for it, while some are OK with lower accuracy. I mean, if the choice is between inacurate cheap electronics and even less accurate electronics from a toy, I don't think that a high-end board is in the scheme.



Exoray, while I like your product and believe you do a great job on it, I don't agree that someone is "rounding corners" by making his own boards. Learning to make it and be able to service it is a good way for some propmakers. I don't agree that you can't have a good circuit unless its made by professionnal either. Its just more complex to make it then buy it.
The prop building hobby is a world where you learn all kind of stuff. You can also pay someone to do it for you if you don't have the skills and don't want to acquire them. those are choices, options, I believe making it from scratch is an option a lot of people will want to try. I also believe others will not want to try doing it and will prefer the option of having a board that is robust and proven, assembled profesionnally with top grade components.


However, this thread is about cheap alternatives to profesionnal-made circuitery.
It has been made clear that there isn't good toy alternative available right now so doing it from scratch seams a logic option.

[Exoray]

[Exoray, while I like your product and believe you do a great job on it, I don't agree that someone is "rounding corners" by making his own boards. Learning to make it and be able to service it is a good way for some propmakers. I don't agree that you can't have a good circuit unless its made by professionnal either. Its just more complex to make it then buy it.

And that is now what I'm saying... What I'm saying is that in the end making a comparable board won't really save you that much money if any... The only reason I can sell my boards at the cost I do is that I purchase parts in quantity and get big discounts... My first prototype board beyond the early bread board model cost me far more in parts then I sell my final product for...

My point is don't get fooled into thinking you can build a movie accurate and reliable electronics kit for cheap... But if you just want some flashing light and a good enough for you light kit, then yes you can do it on the cheap, just like a dollar store pack...

[thor2015]

Exoray- I sent you a PM and was wondering if you had gotten it or not. I'd like to purchase a kit from you but just wanted to know if there is an option to leave it unassembled. I'd also like to make it clear that this request is NOT an attempt at getting a cheaper or less expensive kit. I intend on paying full price. The reason I asked for the kit in this form is because I would like to swap out the power cell LEDs for my own. If you in fact purchase the parts and assemble them yourself, I don't see the need in you taking that time to put my kit together just for me to take certain pieces back apart again. Honestly I am only interested in the printed circuit boards as I have decade counters and shift registers of my own but I'm not going to try and nickel and dime you out of work you've put into developing this kit. Let me know- the For Sale section does not appear to address this question. I've also worked with electronics before so I wouldn't require you to draw up any schematics or assembly instructions. Thanks.

[Exoray]

Yes, I can offer it without the LEDs so you can use your own...

If you in fact purchase the parts and assemble them yourself

And yes I do the assembly from start to finish, the only thing I have manufactured are the blank PC boards...

[thor2015]

PM sent. Thanks!