Discuss all things Ghostbusters here, unless they would be better suited in one of the few forums below.
#68776
Daecrist wrote:"Good evening class. Here is a physics textbook. Here is a chemistry textbook. Here is a biology textbook. Please read them all and have a ten page essay on why the existence of the paranormal would violate several fundamental laws of nature by tomorrow. That is all."
Well doubt that
good textbooks would be
Ghost Hunters Guide Book by Troy Taylor
Ghost Science and Ghost Tech by Vince Wilson
#68781
Actually... I probably shouldn't admit this in public, but I took the Sociology of the Paranormal class in college.

We read 'Quantum Leaps in the Wrong Direction' and

'Why people believe weird things'

And the professor was the head of the department - he was no crackpot. It was a really cool class though.
#68782
moreover, a class about paranormal investigations would mainly focus on the scientific research and documentation of possible paranormal activities, regardless if people have results the point of such a class would be to properly do the investigation in order to prove right or wrong the paranormal hypothesis over it.

Of course, if there's no scientific research on the paranormal, there will never be scientific proof, thus making such class important for both those who believe, and those who don't.
#68860
Interesting. But the link is dead. I'd love to take a class like that but my college doesn't provide such a class.
#68923
Well my basic point was that ghosts would violate just about every natural law known to man if they did exist.

I think a class like that would be interesting if it was presented as a history of parapsychology or paranormal research. Otherwise it's hard to take a serious class seriously since the paranormal has been thoroughly and consistently debunked.
#68983
Daecrist wrote:Well my basic point was that ghosts would violate just about every natural law known to man if they did exist.

I think a class like that would be interesting if it was presented as a history of parapsychology or paranormal research. Otherwise it's hard to take a serious class seriously since the paranormal has been thoroughly and consistently debunked.
I hate to play devil's advocate here, but a few hundered years ago, we thought the earth was flat and the sun revolved around us.

There's alot about our planet, existence and universe we still know little to nothing about.
#68993
Daecrist wrote:[...]since the paranormal has been thoroughly and consistently debunked.
Well, the point is here. Its easy to debunk something when no real serious research is being made on it. Without facts, you can't prove anything. Its not really debunked when all you prove is that there's not fact to back it up. You know, its "debunked - by default" because of lack of anything.?
With this type of research, you would be able to prove one way or another.

Have you ever seen a baby pigeon?
Something tells me they exist, even if I don't have any proof of it.
#69002
It's debunked because of lack of evidence. If you want an interesting look at the history of paranormal investigations try picking up Spook by Mary Roach. Read up on the career of Harry Houdini for some real fun. My point is that people have been investigating this sort of thing since the scientific method was invented, and so far there's been zero repeatable and verifiable evidence for ghosts etc. when a real study is undertaken.

The field really needs to advance beyond hobbyists going out to the local cemetery taking orb pictures and double exposures, but there's the nagging little problem that paranormal phenomena prove to be quite mundane when they're put under any sort of scrutiny. People have been investigating and so far there's been a grand total of zero evidence. At what point do you draw the line on the burden of proof? You can say "well it might exist" all you want, but at some point you're getting into Russel's Teapot territory.
#69003
I was a true believer till I joined up with a little investigation team in Indiana, long since disbanded. Granted the biggest reason I joined was so I could get an actual paranormal investigator certificate, would have been a nice conversation piece. Never got it after I quit the club. After one outing I saw the entire team thought every noise and bump and speck in a picture was a ghost. Their "cold spot" was when they were standing over an A/C vent. A tape recorder picking up a TV down the hall was a certified EVP. I can't even watch Ghost Hunters due to the flashbacks I have to that silly experience.
#69022
Daecrist wrote:It's debunked because of lack of evidence
You know, all big theories in physics are called this way because they have no evidence. Its a law when there's evidence to prove it.

so....


Historically, nobody made research of the paranormal in a really scientific manner until the recent years. Its an emerging type of research. So we couldn't say "real study" being that they look without any way to take measurments. That's what made Ghostbusters revolutionary in the ghost approach genre, they had the tools...

But I do agree completely with you, if this is to go anywhere, it needs to pass from the hobbyist to the profesionnals. There are profesionnals studying the paranormal, but they are few and far between, underfunded, and don't have much equipment. Most of their results are gearing towards brain explanations of the facts - its mainly in people's head that things happens making believe there's something. That, of course, don't prove much when a vast majority of people have the same reaction towards the same situation.

This said, having that kind of classes might help gaining better knowledge of the paranormal, and of people's way of understanding its environment. Proving it or debunking it, making the theories facts or fictions.



I still have a question. In GB1, Venkman says he has a Ph.D. in Psychology and parapsychology. Do they have Ph.D.s in parapsychology??
#69077
Marsupial wrote: You know, all big theories in physics are called this way because they have no evidence. Its a law when there's evidence to prove it.
Incorrect. Scientific theory is called scientific theory because it is potentially subject to revision based on new evidence, not because it's based on no evidence whatsoever. Do you not think there's sufficient evidence for the theory of gravity? Same thing with any other scientific concept that has "theory" tacked on in front of it.
Marsupial wrote: Historically, nobody made research of the paranormal in a really scientific manner until the recent years. Its an emerging type of research. So we couldn't say "real study" being that they look without any way to take measurments. That's what made Ghostbusters revolutionary in the ghost approach genre, they had the tools...
Paranormal investigation has been around for thousands of years. Paranormal investigations that use the scientific method have been around for hundreds of years. The problem is that a great deal of the investigating that has been undertaken over the years fits squarely into pseudoscience, ie. it uses all the right words and terminology but the fundamentals of the research are horribly flawed. I'd suggest Roach's book for a good overview, as it also delves into a lot of the investigations that ended up working their way into the Ghostbusters lingo, ectoplasm, etheric plane, psychokinetic energy, all of it has been studied and all of it has been disproven.
Marsupial wrote: But I do agree completely with you, if this is to go anywhere, it needs to pass from the hobbyist to the profesionnals. There are profesionnals studying the paranormal, but they are few and far between, underfunded, and don't have much equipment. Most of their results are gearing towards brain explanations of the facts - its mainly in people's head that things happens making believe there's something. That, of course, don't prove much when a vast majority of people have the same reaction towards the same situation.
Sometimes I think that part of the reason why parapsychologists are so apoplectic at the mention of the scientific method is because they know there's going to be a mundane explanation for just about everything they can come up with. If you're interested in groups that take investigations into the paranormal seriously then you might want to check out the James Randi Educational Foundation, though their results usually reveal the paranormal as nothing but a simple twisting of human perception.
Marsupial wrote: I still have a question. In GB1, Venkman says he has a Ph.D. in Psychology and parapsychology. Do they have Ph.D.s in parapsychology??
Most legitimate universities won't touch that with a ten foot pole. If you're really interested in parapsychology then you're better served getting something with a grounding in hard sciences. It also helps to study under a few magicians and learn how they do what they do, since most instances of the paranormal usually come down to sleight of hand.

Basically what Jeff said is the sad truth about most paranormal investigators. They're usually a group of credulous hobbyists with a serious case of confirmation bias using instruments that don't have any bearing on the job at hand to look for "scientific" evidence that wouldn't hold up to Mr. Wizard, let alone a peer reviewed journal.
#69135
Daecrist wrote:
Marsupial wrote: You know, all big theories in physics are called this way because they have no evidence. Its a law when there's evidence to prove it.
Incorrect. Scientific theory is called scientific theory because it is potentially subject to revision based on new evidence, not because it's based on no evidence whatsoever. Do you not think there's sufficient evidence for the theory of gravity? Same thing with any other scientific concept that has "theory" tacked on in front of it.
Hehe... but; the theory of gravitation of Newton was proven wrong. You see, its not the gravity that is the theory, but how to calculate it.
Daecrist wrote:
Marsupial wrote: I still have a question. In GB1, Venkman says he has a Ph.D. in Psychology and parapsychology. Do they have Ph.D.s in parapsychology??
Most legitimate universities won't touch that with a ten foot pole. If you're really interested in parapsychology then you're better served getting something with a grounding in hard sciences.
Nahn. I'll keep me degree in EE. But I was curious, 'cause I don't think there is such a thing as a Ph.D. in Parapsychology.
Fun fact: when I was young I tough that the prefix Para ment something stronger, so like "advanced psychology". Guess I was wrong.
Daecrist wrote:Basically what Jeff said is the sad truth about most paranormal investigators. They're usually a group of credulous hobbyists with a serious case of confirmation bias using instruments that don't have any bearing on the job at hand to look for "scientific" evidence that wouldn't hold up to Mr. Wizard, let alone a peer reviewed journal.
I fully agree here, and it is why I say this class can only mean something good...
jettajeffro wrote:If I remember right when I looked it up along time ago only a couple of places offered such a degree.
I'm seriously curious. can you point some of them? I'd be interested to know what classes it includes, or what is it they do.

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