By torsoboy
#265387
So I'm starting up the Tainted Love pack. I really don't have to explain what it is on here, so I'll just jump right into the details.

A scan from the comic.
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Strictly speaking from an objective point of view, some of the other builds I've seen of this pack are too big. They are great builds, just too big. Wanting to build one for myself, and having developed props from comic books in the past, I took special note of the size and proportions of the pack in relation to the characters wearing them. I ended up with the following rough dimensions. Given that this was developed from artwork in a comic book, where the line width of the line art or the viewing angle can throw off measurements, I'll say right now that my notes below are just very rough dimensions. As you'll see in the next paragraph, I needed to have a built in tolerance of about half an inch either way in order for the pack to stay in roughly the same proportions and measurements according to my notes.

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To start off, I realized that the cap to a 1-gallon jug of Bondo is about the right size. I measured it, and found it to be just slightly too small. The top diameter is 6.5" and the bottom diameter is 6-3/4". Just shy of 7" as depicted in my notes. There is also a slight bevel to the edges. Usually I'm a stickler for details, but I'm willing allow this bevel for the sake of a quick build. It's very slight, after all, and I suspect that it will end up being a non-issue by the end.

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The majority of this build will be sintra, but the final product will be a fiberglass casting since I'll be molding both components of the project.

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User avatar
By Smits
#265518
You've certainly got my attention. I'm hoping to build one of these for an upcoming con, so I'm keen to see your work on this.
By torsoboy
#265730
Didn't get too much work done on the pack last night, though I did get a significant amount of framing work done. Here I've just defined the beveled edges of the main body and set the height. Assembly so far has been with sintra and hot glue.

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By Not404Error
#265884
Please don't use hot glue as a permanent glue for your pack. It's not designed to bond that kind of thing... it's supposed to be used for those styrofoam things for flowers. You can use it for a temp hold, but you need something better for a permanent hold.
By torsoboy
#265951
Not404Error wrote:Please don't use hot glue as a permanent glue for your pack. It's not designed to bond that kind of thing... it's supposed to be used for those styrofoam things for flowers. You can use it for a temp hold, but you need something better for a permanent hold.


If you had read my post, you would have found that I said i was going to be molding this to make fiberglass castings. I am a very experienced prop builder of several years, so I know about hot glue and when it's appropriate to use and when its appropriate to use other adhesives. I use industrial hot glue on most of my stuff anyways without any problems. If you know how to use it effectively, it can be used on LOTS of things, not just foam for flowers as you dictate. So I'll use it if i want, especially on a master copy that won't be used as a final prop.

Just because my post count slow here, that doesn't mean i havent been around the block a time or two, so please don't assume that i don't know things.
User avatar
By Chace
#265954
torsoboy wrote:Just because my post count slow here, that doesn't mean i havent been around the block a time or two, so please don't assume that i don't know things.


Well played.

Hal (the Georgia GB that built the first one) even says the cyclotron is a little big, but he got the idea like 2 days before our photo day and threw it together with the smallest cake pan he could find.

Lookin good so far, and I can't wait to see how the shell turns out. I wore Hal's during DragonCon and I really liked it better than may old school all wood 50lb pack. Plus I found out I can wear it while driving ecto, then pop out for pics....so again looking forward to the finished product, and if you make multiples I might just buy one off of ya ;)
User avatar
By Ron Daniels
Moderator
#265993
This is looking like a great start, I'm really interested in what you are doing for the "wand" portion. I've been looking into building one, sans reduction in size because I'm Gigantor, and that is what has been stumping me.
By Not404Error
#266039
torsoboy wrote:
Not404Error wrote:Please don't use hot glue as a permanent glue for your pack. It's not designed to bond that kind of thing... it's supposed to be used for those styrofoam things for flowers. You can use it for a temp hold, but you need something better for a permanent hold.


If you had read my post, you would have found that I said i was going to be molding this to make fiberglass castings. I am a very experienced prop builder of several years, so I know about hot glue and when it's appropriate to use and when its appropriate to use other adhesives. I use industrial hot glue on most of my stuff anyways without any problems. If you know how to use it effectively, it can be used on LOTS of things, not just foam for flowers as you dictate. So I'll use it if i want, especially on a master copy that won't be used as a final prop.

Just because my post count slow here, that doesn't mean i havent been around the block a time or two, so please don't assume that i don't know things.

No need to get defensive, man. Just trying to help out.
By torsoboy
#266447
So I made some significant progress on this project this weekend. I got the main body fleshed out and all the current pieces have been joined together. I also pretty much finished the bumper (though it still needs to be smoothed over with glazing putty as soon as this humidity goes away). Today after work I'll be going to Home Depot to look for suitable washers or other small circles for the light openings on the cyclotron and for a few other items on this project.

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For scaling purposes, here I've included a ruler to show how long it is. From end to end it is exactly 14" long.

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User avatar
By keoni
#266473
Looks good!!! gonna keep an eye on this one

I dont really like mine, I want to do a rebuild on it. its too wide; but I did the best I could with what I could find and I couldnt find anything smaller than a 9" cake pan, which threw off the width of everything else when trying to make it proportional. my only concern about yours is that it may be too tall.

have you seen these yet?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/salgood/4014493843/in/set-72157622462496181/
By torsoboy
#266492
Thanks! Yep I've seen those, and they're in my reference folder. Thanks for the reminder, though.

I spent one night going over all the panels in the comics that show the mini pack, and I studied how it was worn, the positioning on the arm and all the other possible relations I could think of in order to determine it's dimensions. I feel confident that my measurements are - more or less - proportionally correct-ish for an average-height individual.

No one can ever be certain, though, because after all it is a comic book. One person might interpret dimensions from the inside of the drawn lines, while another person might interpret dimensions from the outside of the drawn lines, while another person rides on the middle of the line. And then of course, you have variation panel-to-panel, and that makes consistent measuring difficult. I've created props from comics before, and it's never easy. You can create props from production sketches like the one you linked, but then it never does look exactly like that in the comic panels. So having no actual prop makes everything relative to each individual's interpretation. So too small for you might be perfect for me, which could still be too big for someone else. That's what's tricky about it. But then again, that's what's fun about it. ;)

And yeah, as Dark Jedi 1500 said, we did a side-by-side of it next to his game pack. And this pack is definitely the Smart Car to his Hummer, metaphorically speaking.
User avatar
By ProtonCharger
#266500
the best way to make a sort of scale measurement is take a measurement off of something in the photo you know is correct, and then take what increments you can get out of that from the smaller pic and scale up. an example would be, i used a dc direct comedian from watchmen to make my comedian costume, 1/8" of an 1" was 1" my scale. in the case of this project you may want to look at the measurements of the no ghost symbol irl, then scale it to the book, and thats how you can finagle your measurements for the tainted love pack.

but you probably already know that.
User avatar
By keoni
#266507
yeah, its definitely not easy. I just gave up and went with those drawings as my base. after you finish yours, those of us who have done one should have a group discussion about what works and whats flawed about our packs then try and figure out something collectively
By torsoboy
#266513
Once I get a little more progress done on this, I'll take a photo of it on my arm. It seems yall think it's too small or too big , but I know seeing it on the body would definitely help out. I always have to see things in relation to my body when I build things. ;) Of course, we really won't be able to tell without the forearm component either. lol

I've tried it on three different people (Dark Jedi 1500, my girlfriend, and myself) and it does seem about right for how it's shown in the comic. For most of my proportion measurements, I'm using that frame toward the end that shows Winston standing full-frame after the ghost goes away, and I'm combining positioning cues from other frames (position of the elbow in relation to the top component, for example). My references are certainly being combined here, so I'm not going to dial down to fractions of inches when on the page it's an inch long. So like I said before, I feel that it's - more or less - proportionally correct-ish. :P
By torsoboy
#266528
keoni wrote:the length and width look spot on; just not sure about the height though


You know, i can definitely see that because it does have a paper thin look to it in the comic, and trimming off a bit might help out a problem i was having on the bumper sides. But that would mean a total reconstruction of the bottom tray part, and im so far in that it would be a huge step back to rebuild that entire section. Once i put those side rails/tubes on it, it will look a little thinner.

I sat here for a few moments while i considered chopping it up, and after further consideration I probably won't thin it out. I want to be able to fit electronics and batteries in it, so the additional thickness will help in that aspect. Plus, the back plate will have a recessed groove in it to fit the wearer's arm so it sits closer to the body instead of sticking out, so that in combination with the room i need for electronics definitely mean i should stick with it as is. We'll see once i get a casting done, though. A casting would be far easier and less time-consuming for me to mod at this point.
By torsoboy
#266543
I feel 1" is too thin for my application. My pack isn't exactly the Sears Tower either (I think it's about 2" too, though the N Filter will be a bit taller, obviously). I just held it again in my hands again, and it is a reasonable size. A little tall, yes, but I feel it's within tolerance.

In addition to the need for space for electronics and the inner curved piece, one of my mantras for prop building from comic books or animated features is to bring the item in question into the real world. To me, having the extra thickness gives it a certain bulk that suggests it is actually a miniaturized proton pack. We don't know what the inner mechanics of it look like, especially because these things aren't real, so I see no rhyme or reason for the need for it to be a pancake, when all that was requested by Winston was that the proton packs be smaller.

I certainly enjoy discussing these types of things in a constructive manner, and it really does mean a lot to me to know that so many of you are interested in my prop, it really does. But I feel it's starting to be a nitpick session about something that's too far in to start over. I'm not saying you guys aren't being constructive or helpful (you are!), but I've stated several times that I'm confident in my measurements and have given my reasons why. Respectfully, would you guys mind if we just agree to disagree for the time being? We can tear it apart later when I've made more progress. :)
User avatar
By keoni
#266556
torsoboy wrote:I feel 1" is too thin for my application. My pack isn't exactly the Sears Tower either (I think it's about 2" too, though the N Filter will be a bit taller, obviously). I


coolio!! it just looks taller than that I guess. but I think 2" is about perfect
User avatar
By keoni
#266558
I raised my bumper a bit cause there are 8 cyclo lights on this pack and damnit, I wanna see all 8 lights when I finally get electronics in. lol. I guess I should mention that the cake pane I used is 2". not sure what the overall is. I know the wood I used is 1/4" (motherboard/bumper/) but thats about all I can remember







it looks like I have posting A.D.D. hahahahaha
User avatar
By ProtonCharger
#266563
lets look at the name tag as a reference for dimensions:

after a quick search here for "nametag dimensions", the dimensions of it are 4 3/4" x 2", exact cut and paste.


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taking your image in the first post, you can see its almost 5 1/2" wide by 6 7/8" and the depth of the "nfilter" is 2" where you can see by being next to the name tag on the right

lets assume that the nfilter is 2" because the side of the nametag is 2"
http://www.gbfans.com/image.php?url=/im ... efan_3.jpg

if we look at thsoe plans, the nfilter is 3 5/8, so thats 1 5/8ths off of the tainted love picture, you could get away with saying the top of the cyclotron on the tainted love pack would be anywhere between 1 1/10th and 1 1/2". you could go as far as 1 3/4 to make it ease of dimensions and pleasing to the eye.

im not nit picking your build i think its great, but what im doing is giving you a better eye for the dimensions if you'd like it. this is where i would start if i were making my own.
User avatar
By keoni
#266567
sorry, but I disagree with comparing and scaling to the full sized proton pack, its just not the same. you're not taking a 1:1 and bringing it down to a 1:18; these are two separate props. I also dont think that comparing it to the name tag is a fair assessment either; comics arent exactly proportionally scaled
By torsoboy
#266571
keoni wrote:sorry, but I disagree with comparing and scaling to the full sized proton pack, its just not the same. you're not taking a 1:1 and bringing it down to a 1:18; these are two separate props. I also dont think that comparing it to the name tag is a fair assessment either; comics arent exactly proportionally scaled


Gotta agree here.

This is a comic book. The artist might just be drawing a rectangle for the name tag. If the focus of the panel isn't on the name tag, he's likely not to put as much effort into drawing it adequately/accurately. And I'm pretty certain he's not going to be measuring his drawing out with an engineering scale and calipers for an insignificant detail like that for the panels in question, and particularly for the art in question. I find that basing entire dimensions off of something small like that is also likely to get you into trouble over all. If you equate the measurement of something small on something that is also small, the larger overall item in question could be effected greatly if your measurements are even slightly off. So again, keeping in mind the huge variation in comic book art panel to panel, I chose to get my measurements based in an overall, all-in-one chop-shopped manner.

Agree to disagree? You measure your way. I'll measure my way. Kapeesh?
User avatar
By ProtonCharger
#266574
i think the two of you are missing the point. im using the nametag with known measurements as a reference to get the measurements for the tainted love pack, and using the pack measurements as a guide for things missing measurements to compare to.

i understand its an entirely different pack. one goes on your shoulder and is considerably smaller than a regular pack. to even mention that, was absurd.

after all,
keoni wrote:the length and width look spot on; just not sure about the height though

there were questions in measurements, and i was illustrating a way to do it.

torsoboy wrote:This is a comic book. The artist might just be drawing a rectangle for the name tag.

tell me you didnt just say that. lets just forgett that if we have measurements for a known rectangle, it would be much easier to figure out the measurements of something we need measurements too.

Agree to disagree? You measure your way. I'll measure my way. Kapeesh?


i think your heads a little too big for your body pal. good luck with your build and your ego.
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