User avatar
By julz
#387116
In light of so many lovely vhooks being made, and most recently some fine examples by jay stanz!

I thought id bring the gb1 vhook under closer scrutiny.

I have been going over some snapshots from Rays pack in GB1. I have heard some people say that the male end of the vhooks in gb1 had no screw holes on the outside, but the the images below look like there are definatly some holes there, maybe not the counter sunk holes from the outside like GB2 but maybe they are drilled and tapped all the way through with no counter sunk on the outside, and then screwed in place from the inside? so the screw would screw all the way through from inside and be close to sitting flush with the outside. (which could in some circumstances give the impression that there are no screw holes depending on how flush the scews sit with the outside)

Also the male end which attaches to the aluminum block looks like it is made up of 2 separate parts which arn't 100% aligned, instead of 1 solid piece. you can see the edges, creases and shadows of the 2 bits...

Image
ImageImage

What do you guys think?

If this is or might be the case, im sure it wouldn't be too hard for the people that are already making vhooks to make some slight adjustments for a gb1 version? hint hint ;)
By pchrisbosh1
#387122
To my knowledge the v hooks are made exactly how the trap V hooks were in which they were drilled and tapped for 8-32 socket cap screws and it was attached from the inside of the shell. Evidence of this is on the Sony lobby hero pack. That's why it's so hard visibly see it in the film.
User avatar
By momeraths24
#387126
In light of so many lovely vhooks being made, and most recently some fine examples by jay stanz!
Agreed... Those V-hooks are just amazing!

I did review at the GB1 v-hook from the movie and I'll have to modify my regular GB1 V-hook.

Question, is that a spacer between the spacer (directly installed to the pack) and the top section of the V-hook on Dan's pack?

I'm can tell you that I'm going to love this discussion thread.

Franchesky
User avatar
By Canthor
#387133
Question, is that a spacer between the spacer (directly installed to the pack) and the top section of the V-hook on Dan's pack?
Looks that way. Would have been easier for the prop makers to cut the male end in two pieces. hmmmmmm

But the lobby GB2 semi hero seems to be machined and one piece instead of two attached to the square piece.

Berry interesting... My jpa35 hook now seems too pretty to attach to my GB1 hero build, plus the screws are countersunk like the GB2 Semi heros :lol:
User avatar
By aceblackbelt
#387135
What do we know about dimensions? I know the elite plans have the female measurement, and Stefan's plans have his numbers. Im just curious because Vincenzo330 mentions that jaystanz's are too big? I don't see much of a discrepancy visually, bit then again im still pretty much a noob when it comes to fine detail like that... Im still getting one of his regardless cuz its still 1000% better than the Dixie V-Hook.
User avatar
By jackdoud
#387159
I know the elite plans have the female measurement,
TJ just recently re-did his dimensions with some new info, I'll see if I can get him to pop in here or else mburkit might be able to help as he worked with him.
User avatar
By mburkit
#387211
Our buddy TJ, creator of the elite plans, and I spent some time this weekend re-evaluating the Gb1 v-hooks and adjusting his plans. Hopefully he can finish up the schematics for them soon and we can post them to continue this discussion. We are also comparing what we know about the gb2 hooks and what we can see in Gb1, as they are different.
User avatar
By momeraths24
#387285
The more people taking time to pay attention to the difference v-hooks the better.

One of the main problems that we will encounter is the GB 1 V-hook due to the lack of reference from a "Hero" type pack in display. Hope that we are all able to come up with a good clean understanding about this GB1 V-hook from the movie clips.

Franchesky
User avatar
By julz
#387656
Thanks everyone for pitching in your thoughts! Id love to get a more accurate gb1 vhook for my pack so I figured id start this thread ;)
To my knowledge the v hooks are made exactly how the trap V hooks were in which they were drilled and tapped for 8-32 socket cap screws and it was attached from the inside of the shell. Evidence of this is on the Sony lobby hero pack. That's why it's so hard visibly see it in the film.
I was wondering this myself after pouring over the film and taking a ridiculous amount of stills ;) You can definatly see the screw hole indents!

Hookeey so I decided to jump into the fair land of maya and mock up a vhook based on a mixture of the elite plans and photo stills, There does seem to me to be some variations on the vhooks depending on which packs you look at... Ie Venkman's seems to be longer and Ray's has the weird possible 3 bits of metal combo and the larger aluminum block on his pack seems to be alot skinnier in width.

Here a few of the more clearer shots of the vhooks through out the film

Image

And here is my mock up, Please excuse the crudity of this model. I didn't have time to build it to scale or to paint it!

Image

A little comparison with Spenglers vhook

Image

and lastly a quick idea of the possible "ray" version vhook

Image

Although looking at spenglers close up, the main male part does seem to be 1 piece and not 2 separate pieces like the images of rays vhook. So maybe Rays vhook is just 1 piece as well , with some weird sharp bits throwing in some extra shadows making it look like separate parts. Or Ray's vhook was a funky first prototype before they built the solid version ;)
User avatar
By CPU64
Supporting Member
#387675
That's exactly how I made my first hooks back in the days since I didn't have any tooling for cutting them as a single unit.
The spacer looks to be the less than 1/8" thick next to the hook. Together they look to be 1/4" but the spacer is not half of the hook, [as is the case for the one piece hooks], and the same width as the block.

The problem with this set up is, if I make the hook, The person who ordered it will have to deal with properly cutting, grinding and re-tipping the screw ends in order to fit their shell. Wall thickness always varies in hand made shells. So its hard to provide screws already cut to size in this case. Unless a bunch of washers are used on the inside for adjustments.


BTW, hey julz, are you using Maya? :3
Oh and about Spengs hook looking like its one piece, these parts could've been welded by the same people who made the rest of the metal parts. I welded mine together back then, and they were all steel instead of aluminum...
User avatar
By momeraths24
#387700
That's exactly how I'm planning on making my GB 1. However, I see that the small "spacer" sticks out just a bit from the top. (0.063 maybe)

Franchesky
User avatar
By julz
#387736
The person who ordered it will have to deal with properly cutting, grinding and re-tipping the screw ends in order to fit their shell.


Yes your right, but from my point of view as a customer id be happy to do that, as I have all the tools I need. I think if you made this a new vhook feature you could offer a few versions, and one version would be letting the customer have fun with the screws ;) ps so when are you making me one, huh huh! :p

BTW, hey julz, are you using Maya? :3
Oh and about Spengs hook looking like its one piece, these parts could've been welded by the same people who made the rest of the metal parts. I welded mine together back then, and they were all steel instead of aluminum...
Yes I am using maya ;) it's what I'm most used to and use it at work. Interesting point about welding them together... when you sand them are you able to make them look like one piece? As Ray's is the only one where you can see the 3 pieces, which made me wonder if the rest were one piece.... hmmm

Looking at spenglers hook, the end hook and the thin spacer are collectively wider then the mounting block, but the hook part is definitely alot wider/fatter than the spacer.
That's exactly how I'm planning on making my GB 1. However, I see that the small "spacer" sticks out just a bit from the top. (0.063 maybe)
Yes Ray's pack does look like the thin spacer overhangs Franchesky, but they could be the same size piece and it could be just slightly misaligned causing the thin spacer to stick out at the top but not at the bottom.
By the way this is all just me asking questions about photographs from the movie and trying to draw conclusions. as I said before Ray's "looks like" its made from 3 pieces, but spenglers doesn't. So the hook could be one piece, or 2 welded together as Chris has suggested...
User avatar
By CPU64
Supporting Member
#387745
I can start making them right now actually..
And yes, once welded, they can be ground down flush, or even almost exactly as shown on the top/right 3 pictures on the multi still image you posted. Its just a matter of making the space a bit taller than the hook piece. Once ground down, you still have the little "step" that gives the impression that there are two pieces together.

PS. I <3 Maya. Been using it since version 3 :3

Sir Chris
User avatar
By momeraths24
#387761
The way that I make them will come with the screws and you won't have to do any screw modification to install it. It should only take 5 minutes to install.


I'll have the 2 style GB 1 v-hooks completed tomorrow and I'll post pictures so you can see how Im planning on making them.

Franchesky
User avatar
By julz
#387827
PS. I <3 Maya. Been using it since version 3 :3
Maya REPRESENT! whats happening Maya buddy!?
I can start making them right now actually..
For me? you shouldn't have! I would love to get a new accurate gb version of your vhook...

it might be worth waiting for matt to chime in again with news over the revised vhook design they are working on, and see if anything new comes to light before jumping into production?
User avatar
By CPU64
Supporting Member
#387910
I'd say the width of the hook might change from what we have right now.. It doesn't look as wide in the stills.
User avatar
By mburkit
#391765
So I had some v-hooks made for myself recently to my specifications and I believe they came out great, so I figured I'd share.

Image

Image

Now, you may be asking yourself "Matt, why does your v-hook have #4-40s in each corner of the spacer block?"

Well, the only pack that I feel still had its gb1 v-hook set up on it through gb2 was the Sony Hero pack, as seen in this photo from when it was on display in NY Planet Hollywood.

Image

As you can see from this photo, the #8's that held on the male half of the v-hook are still on the block as well as the #4-40s in the corners of the spacer block, holding it onto the pack itself. It's tough to see, but its all there.

Anyway, feel free to discuss!
User avatar
By julz
#391780
Look fantastic Matt!

Thanks for chiming in again. What do you think about rays vhook looking like the hook end was made up of 2 parts? Rays seems to be the only one that I could find that looked like this, Spenglers looked like it was one piece as shown above somewhere in the pics I posted. Chris was suggesting that one theory is that they were 2 parts welded together and sanded down, so depending on the love and care put into lining them up and sanding you could either get a piece look or a2 parts joined together look....

I love the 4 corner screw setup and it makes complete sense as with only 2 screws holding the hook on I have found it does bend and wobble a bit on the pack...

I like how yours is nicely beveled on the hook itself. Looks damn well like the real macoy! :cool:
User avatar
By jimbo7
#391822

I like how yours is nicely beveled on the hook itself. Looks damn well like the real macoy! :cool:

That bevel is definately needed in order for the female portion to slide over it properly. Otherwise, if the hook it made correctly, the female hangs up and wont seat properly :cool:
User avatar
By julz
#391850

I like how yours is nicely beveled on the hook itself. Looks damn well like the real macoy! :cool:

That bevel is definitely needed in order for the female portion to slide over it properly. Otherwise, if the hook it made correctly, the female hangs up and wont seat properly :cool:
Yes I thought so myself when I was modeling the vhook based of the pic of Spenglers pack, I was going to ask if people were going to include this but thought id wait until the new plans were posted...

Image
You can see the nice bevel in that pic...It's really nice to see someone nail it on the gb1 vhook :cool:

Did you make that vhook Jimbo ;) wink wink nudge
User avatar
By mburkit
#392061
And in case anyone was curious how these suckers look on an accurate gun mount box (verses the size that is on most shells floating around out there), here you go!

Image
Image

And for those that are curious, the accurate size to the gun mount box on a shell should be about 4.25" x 4.00" x 1.75". With this sized box, the 2" spacer block sits correctly on the top 2 ribs.
User avatar
By julz
#392070
Looks fantastic Matt.

I'm curious to know what you guys think of the possible 2 part hook welded together option... based on the pics of rays pack...
I've explained it a bit better further back in this thread...
User avatar
By jackdoud
#392095
I'm curious to know what you guys think of the possible 2 part hook welded together option... based on the pics of rays pack...
Why would they have to be welded together? Based on the pics you posted in the first post it looks to me like the middle piece either had the holes drilled wrong or else the holes were drilled too large and the plate slid up before the screws were tightened down causing it to stick out a bit. I'd be a quick and easy way to toss together a v-hook instead of having to mill one out, they cut a lot of corners with the GB2 semi-heros.
User avatar
By julz
#392145
I'm curious to know what you guys think of the possible 2 part hook welded together option... based on the pics of rays pack...
Why would they have to be welded together? Based on the pics you posted in the first post it looks to me like the middle piece either had the holes drilled wrong or else the holes were drilled too large and the plate slid up before the screws were tightened down causing it to stick out a bit. I'd be a quick and easy way to toss together a v-hook instead of having to mill one out, they cut a lot of corners with the GB2 semi-heros.
Thanks Jack

I had wondered that myself. Rays hook could have been a prototype version, quick and easy to test the idea.
I mentioned welding, because I had questioned if all the hooks were all done in rays pack style... 2 parts with no milling, but then on spenglers pack it looks nice and smooth like its one milled piece. Chris made a comment that if they were in separate pieces they could have welded his together and sanded it to look like one piece..
User avatar
By noslliT
#392772
I'll put my hat in the ring.

I always put my measurements to practice. A picture that has been in plain sight is a straight on shot of the V-hook on a GB2 semi hero from sony courtesy of Vince's pictures in the PP section.
I have scaled this using photoshop and even scaled it right off my I-Phone with a caliper

The widest portion of the V-Hook is 1.75" the narrow portion on the top is 1.25". The mounting block is 2"x2"
I am not saying that this is how they were all built considering we have not seen a gb1 pack that has retained its original V-Hook. However the Sony Hero mounting block gives us some good clues.

Anyway ill let these pictures talk
first a gb2 semi hero v-hook orientation
Image

second
the male portion on the mounting block matching the holes scaled from the sony hero
Image

Third
The configuration that is classically associated with GB1 V-Hooks
Image

Fourth
Straight up and down. the second hole orientation on the sony hero block
Image

now its quite possible that there was no real science to any of this in the first movie. In fact they could have very well just drilled any old holes in the V-Hook mounting block and called it a day.
In fact if I were to take a guess the Sony lobby hero is most likely the first pack built up for production and therefore would not be a true indication of most of the packs primarily seen in the movie.
The problem is were trying to standardize something that was not constructed with a terrible amount of care to begin with.
User avatar
By jimbo7
#392778
I agree with you Chris. Sometimes, I think we all take too much time disecting parts that were probably just tossed on a bench and drilled out wherever the bit landed. It's good to get the replica correct to the original, but with the hooks, Id have to say they are all a bit different.
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