- November 19th, 2016, 5:46 pm#4886020
I recently heard that 40% of households in the States have a female breadwinner. That's pretty good if you ask me.
ccv66 wrote:Are 40% single moms?Only 25.3% are single. 15% are married.
JurorNo.2 wrote:Yeah but you still bring up a stereotype, if everyone thinks like that we can forget about gender equality. Not trying to have a go at you but a woman saying women mostly stay at home ends up reinforcing beliefs as to where I woman's place is, at least in my opinion.
Um, considering I'm a woman with a job outside the home, no that is not what I said, lol.
pferreira1983 wrote:but a woman saying women mostly stay at home ends up reinforcing beliefs as to where I woman's place is, at least in my opinion.Um, no. I said men tend not to stay at home. Furthermore, I said it's not always their choice not to stay at home. And stating the fact that women are more likely to stay home isn't saying that is "their place." That is all coming from you.
JurorNo.2 wrote:Alright...
Um, no. I said men tend not to stay at home. Furthermore, I said it's not always their choice not to stay at home. And stating the fact that women are more likely to stay home isn't saying that is "their place." That is all coming from you.
pferreira1983 wrote: Not trying to have a go at you but a woman saying women mostly stay at home ends up reinforcing beliefs as to where I woman's place is, at least in my opinion.How is a person stating a fact mean that they are reinforcing those beliefs???
Styrofoam_Guy wrote:How is a person stating a fact mean that they are reinforcing those beliefs???It can lead to double standards and a wrong way of thinking. I get what you're saying though.
If I say drinking and driving can cause fatal accidents this does not mean I endorse drinking and driving.
SSJmole wrote:Even most of the people using the "I just hate reboots" exude you know they loved something like "batman begins" or "rise of planet of the apes" or just other reboots. He'll even on TV the flash is loved , still reboots the 90s one. Westworld is a TV reboot of orginal film. It happens yet this is the one everyone hates reboots on? Some really do hate it been a reboot BUT there's too many for me to not think "its cause they are women" I mean this film has more hate than most Adam Sandler films! It's not bad at all.Those really arent comparable. For one thing, all those reboots were aimed at the same demographic as the original. I think if they took Batman and aimed it at young girls the hate would be extreme. And things like Batman are just new adaptations of a comic character (likewise the Flash has nothing remotely to do with the 90s series). They were also reboots of franchises that had been completely ruined and run into the ground by previous entries.
Commander_Jim wrote: HOWEVER taking an established franchise that has a 30 year legacy behind it, has a built in fanbase made up primarily of males aged 20-40 and using that as a vehicle for it is not the way to go.
Anyone could see the backlash comingNo one could have predicted such a bizarre, mean spirited overreaction. Especially over a comedy. And especially from a fanbase made up of supposed adults. Grown men throwing fits because their favorite toy was given to a child is beyond sad. And apparently it's even more of an outrage that said child is a girl? Jesus...are there any adults in this situation?
a 30 year legacy behind itI'm 33, that's really not that old. Ben-Hur was remade and the fan boys (who normally brag about their extensive film knowledge and love of art over "cash grabs") barely made a peep. They weren't worried about GB's legacy; just their own precious childhoods.
I think if they took Batman and aimed it at young girls the hate would be extreme.And would be another embarrassing overreaction from grown men. I'm not sure what you're defending there. Even Bronies know how to share.
Ben-Hur was remade and the fan boys (who normally brag about their extensive film knowledge and love of art over "cash grabs") barely made a peep.Ben Hur is 60 years old and hardly a part of modern pop culture the way that GB is. How many fanboys for it do you think are on the internet? Who was around to make a peep? Most of the people who care about that film are dead, old or are classic movie fans, demographics who make up a tiny, silent portion of the internet movie fan community. And even then that movie was met with nothing but mockery and one of the lowest like to dislike ratios for any recent movie trailers on youtube and went on to become the biggest bomb of the year, so hardly a good example to use of people not hating remakes. Also, it wasnt technically a remake, being an original script based on the book.
JurorNo.2 wrote:And now ask yourself how big would the backlash be, if it was the other way around!Commander_Jim wrote: HOWEVER taking an established franchise that has a 30 year legacy behind it, has a built in fanbase made up primarily of males aged 20-40 and using that as a vehicle for it is not the way to go.Anyone could see the backlash comingNo one could have predicted such a bizarre, mean spirited overreaction. Especially over a comedy. And especially from a fanbase made up of supposed adults. Grown men throwing fits because their favorite toy was given to a child is beyond sad. And apparently it's even more of an outrage that said child is a girl? Jesus...are there any adults in this situation?a 30 year legacy behind itI'm 33, that's really not that old. Ben-Hur was remade and the fan boys (who normally brag about their extensive film knowledge and love of art over "cash grabs") barely made a peep. They weren't worried about GB's legacy; just their own precious childhoods.I think if they took Batman and aimed it at young girls the hate would be extreme.And would be another embarrassing overreaction from grown men. I'm not sure what you're defending there. Even Bronies know how to share.
Commander_Jim wrote:Are movies really so valueless to you?Come on, man, I think you know that's yet another overreaction.
You think its "sad" that people care about things that they have a large interest in, have invested time and money into because its just some "toy"I invest time and money in movies or music I like, sure. Everyone does. But like I've said several times, when such things become overly precious to fans (like Gollum precious), things can turn ugly. Children throw fits when they didn't get exactly what they asked for for Christmas. Adults put their wants and desires in perspective. I mean Aykroyd is a true believer in ghosts, but even he has always said that Ghostbusters was just for fun. GB fans might want to learn from that.
Ben Hur is 60 years old and hardly a part of modern pop culture the way that GB is. How many fanboys for it do you think are on the internet?Um, most genres don't have "fanboys" in the way we're using the word. That doesn't mean they aren't part of modern pop culture. Plus, first you were all impressed that GB was 30 years old. Now you're writing off Ben-Hur because 60 is too old. You know GB will be 60 some day as well.
Most of the people who care about that film are dead, old or are classic movie fans, demographics who make up a tiny, silent portion of the internet movie fan community.Except that, again, fanboys are the first ones to declare their extensive knowledge and appreciation of film history and art. Though lately "history" seems to be anything that happened in their own childhoods, onward (Star Wars often being the lone exception, despite the 70s being an amazing decade for so many other movies).
And even then that movie was met with nothing but mockery and one of the lowest like to dislike ratios for any recent movie trailers on youtube and went on to become the biggest bomb of the year, so hardly a good example to use of people not hating remakes.No one can argue with a straight face that the reaction was anywhere near comparable to what we saw with GB16.
Also, it wasnt technically a remake, being an original script based on the book.That is still a remake. Hollywood pulls that "more faithful to the book" hype all the time. And this is exactly what I'm talking about, you guys will make any excuse for any other reboot or remake, or reboot disguised as a sequel. Except GB16, that's somehow a crime against humanity! There is nothing rational about this.
Skyknight wrote: And now ask yourself how big would the backlash be, if it was the other way around!Just as pissed? No. There was nothing remotely typical about the reaction to GB16.
What if they took the Disney Princesses and Barbie and other girl shows from your childhood and remade them into asskicking superheroes, fighting demons and wearing sexy outfits clearly aimed at adult males? Don't you think the women who grew up with those characters would be just as pissed about it as many of the fans are now?
SSJmole wrote:Why is everyone reacting like the demographic switch was that bad? This is ****ing 2016 people. News flash lots of girls loved the orginal and kids too.Well, at this point, many detractors will tell you, "It's not that I hate women, it's that feminism is out to destroy the world." They've decided something is their enemy and nothing is going to change their mind.
I'm sorry i won't believe that as the orginal is so good and so hateless that it cheapens it using it as a weapon of hate.I agree, and I do wish more fans would realize they are only damaging GB's legacy by behaving that way.
This film had the guts to say "women are our leads and we are proud" and it got crucified for it.It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. But thankfully, I don't think it will even really matter in the long term. GBII was bashed for years, meanwhile the kids who grew up with it never stopped enjoying it. I think the same will happen with GB16.
JurorNo.2 wrote: It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. But thankfully, I don't think it will even really matter in the long term. GBII was bashed for years, meanwhile the kids who grew up with it never stopped enjoying it. I think the same will happen with GB16.I slightly disagree as I loved the fan service in it like cameos and as I said in another thread the balloon scene I genuinely felt a like a again and was just smiling for so long after lol I think the fan service is one reason I'm so puzzled and its like a love note to it.
SSJmole wrote:Oh absolutely, that's why I singled out narrow fan service. You're right, GB16 has a ton of affection for the originals and it's too bad so many fans aren't able to see that; too busy being outraged.JurorNo.2 wrote: It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. But thankfully, I don't think it will even really matter in the long term. GBII was bashed for years, meanwhile the kids who grew up with it never stopped enjoying it. I think the same will happen with GB16.I slightly disagree as I loved the fan service in it like cameos and as I said in another thread the balloon scene I genuinely felt a like a again and was just smiling for so long after lol I think the fan service is one reason I'm so puzzled and its like a love note to it.
JurorNo.2 wrote:SSJmole wrote:Oh absolutely, that's why I singled out narrow fan service. You're right, GB16 has a ton of affection for the originals and it's too bad so many fans aren't able to see that; too busy being outraged.
I slightly disagree as I loved the fan service in it like cameos and as I said in another thread the balloon scene I genuinely felt a like a again and was just smiling for so long after lol I think the fan service is one reason I'm so puzzled and its like a love note to it.
SSJmole wrote:Lol, well you're very right to point out that fan service isn't in itself a bad thing.JurorNo.2 wrote:
Oh absolutely, that's why I singled out narrow fan service. You're right, GB16 has a ton of affection for the originals and it's too bad so many fans aren't able to see that; too busy being outraged.
Ah i'm sorry I misunderstood. In that case I agree
(I know a civil post on the internet admitting your own mistakes. I'm a maverick lol)
JurorNo.2 wrote:Well you just said that no fans should have a problem if they took a well established character (my example being Batman) and totally changed it in order to direct it towards a totally different demographic, and its hard for me to understand how anyone who thinks that could really care too much about the subject matter. What if they did the opposite with GB for example and went the other way and made it R rated and ultra violent, should fans just be happy we get to "share" it with another demographic?Commander_Jim wrote:Are movies really so valueless to you?Come on, man, I think you know that's yet another overreaction.
No one can argue with a straight face that the reaction was anywhere near comparable to what we saw with GB16.No one can argue with a straight face that Ben Hur is in any way comparable to Ghostbusters in terms of popularity or pop culture standing. Let me ask you, when is the last time you saw someone with a Ben Hur T shirt walking around, or walked into a toy store and saw shelves full of Ben Hur merchandise or saw groups of Ben Hur cosplayers attending charity events?
It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. BGB'16 is the most pandering thing Ive ever seen in my life. Barely a scene goes by without it trying to ass kiss the original.
Commander_Jim wrote: direct it towards a totally different demographicAnd? They're not Martians, they're fellow human beings, who cares?
and its hard for me to understand how anyone who thinks that could really care too much about the subject matter.I'm sure Ray cares a lot about studying fungus too but that doesn't mean he collects it the way Egon does.
What if they did the opposite with GB for example and went the other way and made it R rated and ultra violent, should fans just be happy we get to "share" it with another demographic?As long as the original movie wasn't Special Edition-ed somehow, it's not that big a deal. None of the original GB's have been changed.
No one can argue with a straight face that Ben Hur is in any way comparable to Ghostbusters in terms of popularity or pop culture standing.It's a different type of popularity and pop culture standing. Not to mention the countless movies that have been influenced by Ben-Hur's chariot race. And once again, fanboys can't go around pompously claiming to be the protectors of art and film history and then pick and choose which classic to be outraged for.
Let me ask you, when is the last time you saw someone with a Ben Hur T shirt walking around, or walked into a toy store and saw shelves full of Ben Hur merchandise or saw groups of Ben Hur cosplayers attending charity events?That isn't the only way to be a fan of something. Like I said earlier, different genres show appreciation in different ways. It's just different. I hate to be a cliche here, but different doesn't mean bad.
Commander_Jim wrote: GB'16 is the most pandering thing Ive ever seen in my life. Barely a scene goes by without it trying to ass kiss the original.Lol, if they don't mention the originals, it's disrespectful. If they do mention the originals, it's pandering. Dude, you guys are determined to see everything about this movie in the worst possible light. That is not rational criticism, that's just fanboying.
Lol, if they don't mention the originals, it's disrespectful. If they do mention the originals, it's pandering. Dude, you guys are determined to see everything about this movie in the worst light possible. That is not rational criticism, that's just fanboying.Nope, I've never seen fanservice as anything other than a lame attempt at appealing to an audiences sense of nostalgia. I didnt need or want it to reference the originals.
Commander_Jim wrote:So essentially what you're saying is that they could take Ghostbusters or any other movie/book/TV show you love, have spent years being a fan of, and push it at a different demographic and change it into something you dont like, but you're totally down with that as long as some other human beings like it? Well thats very generous of you.Having spent years?...Dude, it wasn't hard labor, lol. And perhaps you need to do a bit better than complaining about a demographic being different. If you told me the new Ghostbusters movie was a Scientology commercial (not unheard of in Hollywood), I might agree with you that that's bad. But if the change is merely a different type of entertainment, that's OK. Again, the originals haven't been changed at all. And like SSJmole said, just because the leads are now women doesn't mean you are incapable of relating to them.
Nope, I've never seen fanservice as anything other than a lame attempt at appealing to an audiences sense of nostalgia. I didnt need or want it to reference the originals.You must not like GBII then, or pretty much any sequel because fan service is what sequels thrive on. And no offence but you haven't convinced me that you're not just looking for another reason to put down GB16.
You must not like GBII then, or pretty much any sequel because fan service is what sequels thrive on.Fan service isnt callbacks to previous events in direct sequels. Fan service is using people's nostalgia for a different movie to make them like another movie. The Force Awakens was full of fan service. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi werent. Indiana Jones 4 was full of fan service. Temple of Doom and Last Crusade werent.
Commander_Jim wrote:(my example being Batman) and totally changed it in order to direct it towards a totally different demographicBatman and robin and batman begins are the same demographic? No. Again ghostbusters when from family film to family film it's not like it went from Saw to Dora the explorer lol.
Commander_Jim wrote:Sorry, but I disagree. I believe in remaining true to the source material (in cases of adaptation) or keeping true to the characters and universe thats been established in the case of original films.That is your and many other fans' prerogative. It just doesn't excuse or even really explain what went down this year.
Fan service isnt callbacks to previous events in direct sequels. Fan service is using people's nostalgia for a different movie to make them like another movie. The Force Awakens was full of fan service. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi werent. Indiana Jones 4 was full of fan service. Temple of Doom and Last Crusade werent.Going back to Tatooine and bringing back the Death Star was definitely fan service. You can be a direct sequel and still intentionally appeal to people's nostalgia. It's not that rigid. Anyway, the point is I'm not sure you'd be thrilled with any direction GB16 tried to go in.
SSJmole wrote: Batman and robin and batman begins are the same demographic? No.And Batman & Robin is pretty much the most hated movie of all time, a movie the director apologised to fans for making, so...
Did it come out today? Ugh the art is so bad tho[…]