Discuss all things Ghostbusters here, unless they would be better suited in one of the few forums below.
#4886832
SSJmole wrote:But the "its for men" attitude is the problem.
You know, in general, I don't have any problem with men having their own interests. The problem is this pocket of men lately that have become so defensive and whiny about being (allegedly) pushed aside in pop culture. You know, in the 70s there was a bit of a backlash against women's lib; men wanting to put a positive spin back into machismo. The "bully boys" on SNL were an example of this, also the Village People. Those guys didn't sit around whining about what victims they were of feminism. They were proactive, they celebrated what was cool and unique about being male. That is something men of today could learn from.
#4886833
EVERYONE deserves to enjoy stuff. You talk about "oh the 1980s was targeted at men" EVERYTHING WAS TARGETED at white straight males pretty much in 1980s with few big franchises tryings all. That was the times. Times change this is 2016 we can have female ghostbusters. As today's society realised more than 1 type of person exists. He'll I am a white straight male so I'm not hating them at all i just think we can include everyone.
So you're saying that all movies should be made to appeal to all demographics? Wow, what an incredibly boring movie world that would be.

Thankfully the box office is on my side. GB'16 was a huge failure at the box office. They took something with a large built in fanbase, aimed it at a different demographic and managed to make a movie that didnt appeal to the original fanbase and apparently didnt attract many people they were trying to aim it at either. You can live in a fantasy world where everyone on earth from little girls to grown men has the same boring, identical taste in movies, but theres the proof that that isnt the case.

As far as the freaks go, theres a lot of sub-forums in this website so I maybe I missed them, but as far as Im aware there is no large section of the GB fandom dedicated to ghost sex or homemade Ghostbusters porn, nor have I ever heard of the GB filmmakers needing to shut down fans at conventions for talking about perverted subjects in Q&A sessions, unlike the Bronies.
And even if the majority is older males (and there is nothing wrong with that, btw), using an all female cast doesn't suddenly mean the franchise is no longer made for them. Come on.
I've never claimed it was because it had a female cast. Im not the one thats been pushing the idea that the new film was for young girls and that GB needed to appeal to a different demographic. Thats been Paul Feig, Sony and people like SSJmole.

My point was, if you go back before we got sent on Bronie tangents about how hateful it is to state facts about the makeup of the fanbase, that long standing movie franchises with built in fanbases should not be used as vehicles for gender politics or be tried to changed to a different demographic to appease some kind of "equality' ideal. Anyone who does that is going to feel the burn.
#4886834
Commander_Jim wrote:So you're saying that all movies should be made to appeal to all demographics? Wow, what an incredibly boring movie world that would be.
Watch the very end of Ghostbusters again. The whole point is that New Yorkers from all different walks of life are united in their support of the Ghostbusters.

Some movies are more geared towards males, others females. That's totally fine. I just don't think Ghostbusters is one of them. And even if it was, it doesn't mean switching out the genders is some kind of insult.
Thankfully the box office is on my side. GB'16 was a huge failure at the box office.
Lol, it's like you're arguing that if a geek has no friends in High School, there must indeed be something wrong with him.
They took something with a large built in fanbase, aimed it at a different demographic and managed to make a movie that didnt appeal to the original fanbase and apparently didnt attract many people they were trying to aim it at either. You can live in a fantasy world where everyone on earth from little girls to grown men has the same boring, identical taste in movies, but theres the proof that that isnt the case.
Ehhh, the trailer turned people off because it looked like the movie wasn't funny. I don't think it was more complicated than that. The overwhelming majority of people are not obsessing over gender agendas in movies.
Anyone who does that is going to feel the burn.
In 2016, yes. But this toxic paranoia over "gender politics" is a very recent phenomenon. Like I said in my previous post, if you want to stand up for the male demographic, then celebrate what's POSITIVE about being male, rather than creating such a victim mentality around it. I don't have any problem with men having their own interests. The problem is this pocket of men lately that have become so defensive and whiny about being (allegedly) pushed aside in pop culture. You know, in the 70s there was a bit of a backlash against women's lib; men wanting to put a positive spin back into machismo. The "bully boys" on SNL were an example of this, also the Village People. Those guys didn't sit around whining about what victims they were of feminism. They were proactive, they celebrated what was cool and unique about being male. That is something men of today could learn from.
#4886836
Commander_Jim wrote:I think the Village People were meant to mock traditional masculinity, not celebrate it
I've been checking out their old interviews, it was very much a little of both, lol. They outright said feminism had made machismo a bad thing and they were trying to change that, while at the same time having fun with it. That's another thing, having a sense of humor about yourself would benefit today's fandoms as well, both male and female. We take ourselves and our movies far too seriously. 8) And it's not a tangent when we're discussing societal issues and alleged "agendas" in pop culture. And anyway, like I said, the SNL guys (very relevant to Ghostbusters) also had the same attitude of taking back male pride, rather than complaining that it had been taken away, and mowing women down in the process.
Last edited by JurorNo.2 on December 8th, 2016, 8:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
#4886837
No there is demographics but sex and race should never be one. As that just keeps everyone separated. They should try writing a good film first.

Case in point Star wars episode VII if you want to talk box office. Female lead (they had to hide) it was not a different group of people who like it made loads of money.

Ghostbusters was loved by everyone they made a film that had actresses' who had similar background to orginals , the orginal ghostbusters loved the movie (they should know about ghostbusters) they added loads of references which why have them unless they assumed ghostbusters fans were watching. It was clearly made for the same people the only difference is leads happen to women and some humour difference.

Also Alien to Aliens is very different even a different genre and sold. Terminator to terminator 2. Hell look at fallout games. 1+ 2 are very different style and genre to 3 + 4. Still sold.

Ghostbusters in my eyes and most is a family film. Families can have women and men in them. This isn't taking Rambo and rebooting it as Disney Channel musical. It's taking family film and making it a family film.
#4886839
HunterCC wrote:Sony, Feig, and many media outlets reaction to early criticism of GB16 was the very definition of defensiveness, paranoia, and toxicity.
If it had just been some fans saying "We wanted a sequel, not a reboot" I doubt toxicity would have ever entered into it. But the fanbase utterly lost its mind with cries of evil feminist agendas and movies being "erased." The criticism, and the intensity of it, wasn't normal to begin with.
#4886841
SSJmole wrote:No there is demographics but sex and race should never be one. As that just keeps everyone separated. They should try writing a good film first.

Case in point Star wars episode VII if you want to talk box office. Female lead (they had to hide) it was not a different group of people who like it made loads of money.

Ghostbusters was loved by everyone they made a film that had actresses' who had similar background to orginals , the orginal ghostbusters loved the movie (they should know about ghostbusters) they added loads of references which why have them unless they assumed ghostbusters fans were watching. It was clearly made for the same people the only difference is leads happen to women and some humour difference.

Also Alien to Aliens is very different even a different genre and sold. Terminator to terminator 2. Hell look at fallout games. 1+ 2 are very different style and genre to 3 + 4. Still sold.

Ghostbusters in my eyes and most is a family film. Families can have women and men in them. This isn't taking Rambo and rebooting it as Disney Channel musical. It's taking family film and making it a family film.
Like I was saying, it was more Feig and Sony and the feminists that were pushing the idea that the movie was for a different demographic than what was actually in the film. It was them attacking anyone who didn't support it as hating women. Paul Feig is still tweeting his pictures of young girls dressed as GB. I don't think he's ever tweeted a picture of a boy in GB costume. But also much of the production of the film shows it was clearly aimed at a different audience than the others even if the end product wasn't that bad. The fact that they chose Feig, a feminist director who has only made female oriented films, casting someone like Melissa McCarthy who doesn't have a lot of male fans, the "girl power" stuff, the trailers which made the film look more like a typical Feig movie etc.
#4886842
Commander_Jim wrote:I don't think he's ever tweeted a picture of a boy in GB costume.
Probably because there's hardly a drought of such things.
The fact that they chose Feig, a feminist director who has only made female oriented films, casting someone like Melissa McCarthy who doesn't have a lot of male fans, the "girl power" stuff, the trailers which made the film look more like a typical Feig movie etc.
It was definitely more of a typical Feig movie, no argument here. I mean, Batman '89 was more of a Tim Burton movie than a traditional Batman story. I just don't see a good reason why GB16 got such a beating in particular.
#4886844
Kingpin wrote:
Commander_Jim wrote:Freaks and probable sexual deviants.
Well that's a spectacular and gross generalisation. I'm not into My Little Pony, but I'm not going to write-off the adult male fans like that.
Yeah, that's a very gross generalization and uncalled for; I may not buy the dolls, but I enjoyed My Little Pony show (the current 4th gen one that's shown today; Friendship is magic) because of the friendship aspects, the stories and the characters much like Ghostbusters. Of course, MLP (also like Ghostbusters) also has ongoing IDW comics, as well.
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#4886848
Commander_Jim wrote:Yeah, right, I'm sorry. Grown men dressing up as and obsessing over My Little Ponies is totally normally and I'm sure those guys are all socially well adjusted, regular guys in healthy relationships with women.
Again with the extreme generalisation.

We're a community of adults who dress up and obsess over Ghostbusters. We're not exactly in the best position to get on a high horse and cast judgement on people for the fandom they're into.
Commander_Jim wrote:theres a lot of sub-forums in this website so I maybe I missed them, but as far as Im aware there is no large section of the GB fandom dedicated to ghost sex or homemade Ghostbusters porn
Such content is not allowed on this forum, but it does exist.

Every fandom will have people who take things too far, it doesn't mean all Bronies fit the stereotype you've painted.
Commander_Jim wrote:A bunch of gay guys dressed in the most traditionally male stereotypes prancing around singing Macho Man... But lets not go down another tangent.
Actually, it's either two or three members of the Village People (The Indian Chief definitely, with the Cowboy and the Soldier being mentioned as well) who were actually gay. The lead singer (The Cop) is noted as definitely being straight.
Commander_Jim wrote:The fact that they chose Feig, a feminist director who has only made female oriented films
Have you actually watched his entire filmography? I haven't, but looking at the list on Wikipedia, there are definitely films there that aren't made specifically for a female-orientated audience.

This is kinda the issue I have with the circular discussion we've been having since the start of the year, this picture of Feig being an antagonist has been conflated and inflated. There's been too many generalisations, assumptions or second/third-hand accounts and not enough actual facts.
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#4886850
Kingpin wrote:Actually, it's either two or three members of the Village People (The Indian Chief definitely, with the Cowboy and the Soldier being mentioned as well) who were actually gay. The lead singer (The Cop) is noted as definitely being straight.
Yes, and the leather man guy was straight as well. The construction worker seems to be a rather private person, he's always said in interviews that he didn't want to say either way, lest a part of the audience feel left out. So if the audience wanted to see them as gay, that's fine, but if they wanted to see them as straight, that's fine too (they did appear in Tiger Beat and Playgirl and had a number of female fans, lol). Nowadays, of course, audiences probably don't care as much about orientation as they did then. Certainly an unusual group in any case, lol.

But yeah, I guess that plays into the discussion too, about some male fans feeling like an all female Ghostbusters wasn't made for them. I don't know what to do about such hang ups.
Such content is not allowed on this forum, but it does exist.
Isn't there like a saying, "If it exists, there's porn of it"?
Have you actually watched his entire filmography? I haven't, but looking at the list on Wikipedia, there are definitely films there that aren't made specifically for a female-orientated audience.

This is kinda the issue I have with the circular discussion we've been having since the start of the year, this picture of Feig being an antagonist has been conflated and inflated. There's been too many generalisations, assumptions or second/third-hand accounts and not enough actual facts.
In other words, fake news? :wink:
Clifton Sleigh liked this
#4886869
Atc was made for everyone but failed appeal to big chunk of the fan base. Its not a gender issues. Most people dont have a problem with girlbusters or women likeing/sharing Ghostbusters. It was a studio that chose to make movie for different demographic. If that upsets you, dont give Sony your money. However people like James Rolfe shouldn't be harassed and labled a misogynist just for not wanting to see a movie. Men got alienated more on the franchise they grew up on
#4886880
Commander_Jim wrote:Yeah, right, I'm sorry. Grown men dressing up as and obsessing over My Little Ponies is totally normally and I'm sure those guys are all socially well adjusted, regular guys in healthy relationships with women.
Wow this tells me everything I care to know about you.

No I do not understand bronies but to make a generalization about them is all kinds of wrong.

I don't know why people voted for Trump or Hillary
I don't know why people like soccer
I don't know why some sports fans paint themselves up in their team colours
I don't know why people like to knit

Just because I do not understand them does not give me the right to made derogatory comments about something I do not understand or agree with.
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#4886885
Commander_Jim wrote:Oh go find a safe space petal. Making fun of Bronies is hardly new, there are whole movies dedicated to it. In fact I just watched an episode of Bobs Burgers solely about making fun of them. Guess that would have really triggered you.
Because that makes it right? It's ok to bully or discriminate if people on tv do. Great message.
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#4886892
No we are saying anyone has to see the "don't hate my fandom or judge me for what I like" "nooo your fandom is creepy and I will judge you for it" as hypocritical. Maybe we can have list fandoms you like. It makes it easier to cherry-pick which we shouldn't bully.
#4886895
Wasn't a Ghostbuster cosplayer just arrested for trying to pick up a teenager? And I remember a similar story with a Trekkie. Bronies are an easy target, but every fandom has its share of disturbed individuals.
#4886947
Jim, you need to take a step back and consider whether the stuff you're getting into is really all that appropriate for the forum, or even reasonable. Sure, there are bad apples in the Bronie community like with every sub-culture of pop-culture, but as you've raised how some members of the Ghostbusters community were marginalised and generalised in the popular media, maybe that should make you a bit more sympathetic to people who aren't necessarily fully understood.

Either way, you can't complain about this becoming a brief tangent in the discussion when you brought it up in the first place.

However, because of how the conversation's gone, I'm going to suggest we move back to the original topic.
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#4886952
I was asked what I thought about Bronies, I gave a half joking, off-the-cuff answer. I didnt realise that a fanbase that has been a running joke in the media for years was going to be such a precious subject on this board. I apologise and wont mention them again.
Maybe we can have list fandoms you like. It makes it easier to cherry-pick which we shouldn't bully.
Sure.
Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Bob Dylan, Coen Brothers, Blues Brothers, Tim Burton, Superman, retro video games, Holden cars, historic ships, Stephen King, classic horror movies.
Have at it.
Last edited by Commander_Jim on December 9th, 2016, 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4886958
He just won the Nobel prize for Literature (I didn't even realize they had a literature category). Now that's one big feat! Recently I've been listening to his new album Fallen Angels a lot. It's a jazz album where he sings covers of standards, I highly recommend it. His voice goes well with jazz tunes.

Some other good new albums to check out if you haven't already are Van Morrison's Keep Me Singing (which has some nice tracks where he revisits his previous sounds), and the Rolling Stones's Blue and Lonesome (which is only cover songs).
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#4887034
SSJmole wrote:Even star wars left Rey off some merchandise at first and she was the main character. That's why this film was needed.
Why I do agree it was moronic of Disney to leave off the main character off the toyline originally you don't just make a film with female characters just to create heroes for girls. It has to be an organic process, this is the issue with studios today. They want to get more women into movie lead roles but ends up being contrived no doubt the pro-feminist media doesn't help things. It would be like if black people or other "ethnic minorities" (hate that term) made a film solely to promote black heroes and made a massive deal of it on the Internet to berate white people.
Commander_Jim wrote:HOWEVER taking an established franchise that has a 30 year legacy behind it, has a built in fanbase made up primarily of males aged 20-40 and using that as a vehicle for it is not the way to go. Anyone could see the backlash coming. No number of Paul Feig tweets of women and girls dressed like Holtzman is going to stop someone who has loved GB as it was for decades to feel like they havnt been robbed.
Couldn't agree more.
JurorNo.2 wrote:I'm 33, that's really not that old. ;) Ben-Hur was remade and the fan boys (who normally brag about their extensive film knowledge and love of art over "cash grabs") barely made a peep. They weren't worried about GB's legacy; just their own precious childhoods.
I'm 33 as well I have extensive knowledge of films/TV and the reason this year's Ben-Hur remake offended me is because it really felt like a cash grab. Ben-Hur has already been remade once successfully in the 60s, it was well loved when it was released, there wasn't a need to remake it again.
JurorNo.2 wrote:It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. But thankfully, I don't think it will even really matter in the long term. GBII was bashed for years, meanwhile the kids who grew up with it never stopped enjoying it. I think the same will happen with GB16.
As I've mentioned elsewhere listening to the fans is important to some extent otherwise we get Answer The Call. I also hate to say it but GBII is still bashed however that was a direct continuation of the original, it holds more value at least to me.
HunterCC wrote:Sony, Feig, and many media outlets reaction to early criticism of GB16 was the very definition of defensiveness, paranoia, and toxicity.
Yes, it was almost as though they were waiting for the reaction and then overreacted.
#4887085
pferreira1983 wrote:you don't just make a film with female characters just to create heroes for girls.
Isn't that one of the main reasons why people create anything, because they're trying to fill a gap in the market?

It shouldn't have to be like the Wonder Woman model that we're currently seeing, that we have to wait through her playing a secondary-tier role in another superhero's movie before she gets to be top billing in her own (eventual) spin-off. There's nothing saying that making a film specifically to deliver a role model can't also be an organically-achieved result.
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#4887433
Kingpin wrote:Isn't that one of the main reasons why people create anything, because they're trying to fill a gap in the market?
Come on, were people really crying out for an all female Ghostbusters movie as well as a reboot? There's filling a gap in a market and there's creating a gap in the market just for your own ends.
#4887448
Maybe not, but so what? While I wasn't specifically referring to female Ghostbusters, there is definitely a discrepancy in how many role models boys have versus how many girls have, so it's not always a bad thing if someone tries to add a few more to the crowd.

In this case the reboot team weren't successful, but that shouldn't stop efforts... trying and failing is still better than not trying at all. Plus, sometimes we might benefit from something we didn't actively or consciously ask for - I'd be willing to bet you there wasn't anyone crying out for something like the electric lightbulb when it was first invented, and there were probably even people who were sceptical at the time that the bulb would be any better than the oil lamp or candle, you don't always need to have demand in order to try make something good, and you don't always know there is a gap in the market until you've identified or filled it.
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