Discuss all things Ghostbusters here, unless they would be better suited in one of the few forums below.
#4909926
All,

Recently on the Ghostbusters Franchises Worldwide group on Facebook, there's a fear that if you own Spirit equipment that the "Elites" or "haters" are going to just appear and degrade and insult you for owning the Spirit stuff. I don't understand where this perception started? I've been part of this fandom since '05, I'm a seasoned builder and have been around numerous groups and GB events and never once saw or heard anyone tear down another cosplayers equipment. The problem is that this "fear" is gaining traction so much that builders and screen accuracy folks are getting lumped into the elites/haters crowd. Does any one have any basis on where this started? I've pointed out to some of this Spirit crowd that without those that populate this very forum who were pioneers in measurements and tracking down the correct parts and fittings and made it so the fandom could have easily accessible light kits and ribbon cables and such that the Spirit equipment wouldn't exist or be as decent as it is. I'm a builder and proudly wear my built full size equipment and I've modded a spirit pack for my son and temporarily for our new petite lady GB, but I'm scratching my head on when it suddenly became wrong to strive for accuracy or to have the pride of building your own equipment. Kudos to Spirit for making the equipment available at a low price, but that price is also reflective of quality. The PKE's are well known by Spirit employees to have poor electronics, the packs are small with the stock thrower being even smaller with shoddy electronics, the traps doors are known to malfunction and the goggles are the most heavily modded piece next to the pack. The point is Spirit stuff isn't meant to be prop quality but more a decent looking piece that can get you through a few Halloween get togethers without modding them. I appreciate that they make it easy for people who may not have had the skills or money to get into this fandom, but I also think that this "elite/haters" thing is an internet legend that's suddenly encompassed the fandom and it's new crop of fans.

NOTE: The next paragraph is my own opinion

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of some negativity I've seen online (let's face it everyone is brave sitting behind a keyboard) I've never seen one instance of in person negativity. I personally think also that long established groups that have full sized gear and uniforms shouldn't just let anyone in just because that person likes Ghostbusters. Some of these older groups are also getting called out by the Spirit crowd for having standards and that's wrong. Most of the long time fans have been around since the days that you had to build your stuff to have it and created groups to showcase that and to do civic oriented activities. They had to work hard for what they have. I think it's arrogant for certain groups to automatically paint those who have standards as elites or "asshats" when all they had to do was walk into the Halloween store and buy their stuff and move on. I'm sure that there are groups that refuse to host folks with unmodded spirit gear, but that's their right for wanting to maintain their own personal group standards. Just because we live in the everyone gets a trophy generation doesn't mean that a screen accurate group should just let in Joe Shmoe who only has a GB shirt just because he likes Ghostbusters.

Full disclosure. I own a Spirit pack. I stripped it down, repainted it, added GBfans lights, printed a correct scale thrower, made a ribbon cable, and added a motherboard and Alice pack. I also own the trap and goggles both of which I modded and had the PKE until it completely stopped working after a week (the story on Spirit's business tactics is another story). I also own the varsity jacket that I plan to get a decent custom name tag on soon. The Spirit gear is fine for what it is and if it allows more fans to share in the love of the fandom, then Spirit did a great job. If you're only able to wear spirit stuff, than awesome. But going back to my original question, was this hostility a product of online hate that morphed into this perception that people are going to come after you if you don't have full sized gear or is there actually widespread in person harassment taking place?

Discuss.

(Writers Note: The views expressed in this essay are purely mine for the purpose of engaging conversation among fellow fans)
Sav C, vipertv liked this
#4909934
Unfortunately there've been a handful of individuals who've been trolling some of the social media connected to the community with their low views on the Spirit equipment. Just this afternoon I removed a pair of fairly-long threads on the GBFans Facebook account because it was just making the place unwelcoming. One thread basically trolled the concept of buying the gear and modding it to look more accurate, by comparing it to a modified hotdog... Another suggested the rightful place for the Spirit gear was in a garbage can.

The sentiment behind both those topics frankly stunk, that nasty sort of community gatekeeping isn't welcome, and comes from bored individuals with too much time on their hands and a urgent need of a more constructive hobby.

I can see where some folks may think those encouraging others to strive for greater screen-accuracy may feel like they're being critical... I suppose we just have to take note of what we say and how it can be interpretted... So that we can try aim to be more knowledgeable and nurting rather than "elitist". :)

As I said in response to the social media deletions, this site should be welcome to everyone.
roofgoof, robbritton, Sav C and 1 others liked this
#4909956
I haven't experienced this. At Wizard World there were several people in GB uniforms with modded spirit packs that looked pretty damn good. People were even wearing the plane jane unmodded ones without alice packs. No one hassled any one over them.

Spectre has a point of people being brave behind keyboards. Unfortunately that's the age we live in now.
My other thought is that e-bay sellers and scalpers want to take them out of business because it's cutting into their profits where they can't mass produce thousand dollar packs like they use to. The days of being able to sell overpriced GB parts is slowing down thanks to the pack being mass produced. It's unfortanate people have to be dicks about spirit products. They are actually very decent.

I will admit ive been procrastinating since I bought my spirit pack. I just removed the little gun and currently am about to attatch the matty wand to mine. I also just zip tied it to an alice pack frame and it looks good without being fully modded.
#4909961
I guess what makes me angry is that the perception amongst new fans that long time builders/fans are out to get them for not being able to afford expensive stuff. I don't like that it's making certain new fans denounce screen accuracy. We're very lucky that we had dedicated folks who painstakingly researched the equipment and lights and fittings to get us where we are today.
#4909965
Agreed. I am a huge accuracy chaser, but I love seeing people passionate about Ghostbusters.
I have never heard anyone at a con give someone a hard time for having a spirit pack.
For that matter I have never had one of the super ultra, got to have the original parts or its no good, Ghostbusters give me grief for having a 3d printed pack.
In general the GB community has been the most accepting and helpful nerd community that I have ever been part of.

So yeah, it is HIGHLY unlikely anyone will give you grief for a Spirit pack at a GB event. If they do they are certainly the exception to the rule and you can probably very easily find cooler/better people to hang out with.

If you like your rig, wear it. People are FAAARRRR more likely to tell you how cool your rig is than say anything bad about it.

Someone's gear is ALWAYS going to be better. Being a jerk because your gear is better is a losing battle.
vipertv liked this
#4909966
I doubt that the people that grief over non-screen accurate props actually leave the house often enough to grief over it in person. The people that go to cons and enjoy the company of other fans aren't going to treat folks like the keyboard warriors do.
NotSabbat liked this
#4909967
This is not a new topic of conversation.
When the PKE Meter, Ghost Trap and Goggles were produced by Mattel there was a debate on whether this would be suitable for cosplay or whether or not you're a "real" fan if you built it not bought it.

Fans of every franchise express themselves differently. From a full near screen accurate build at a convention to just wearing a GB T shirt out on the street and everything in between. It's all on the individual how they express their love for the fandom.

The merchandise is the best it's ever been these last couple years for a ghostbusters fan. I say the more options the better.
hoodaman, vipertv liked this
#4909972
Ran into this by accident.
Im not going to point out the offending franchises, however I have been not so much as harrassed, but been not taken seriously in the past during cons and special events, because I did not have "screen accurate" props. Literally had been told to "go away" on several occasions when trying to talk shop (I am all about screen accuracy and functionality, and always wanting to learn new techniques).
#4909990
DarkSpectre wrote:All,

Recently on the Ghostbusters Franchises Worldwide group on Facebook, there's a fear that if you own Spirit equipment that the "Elites" or "haters" are going to just appear and degrade and insult you for owning the Spirit stuff. I don't understand where this perception started? I've been part of this fandom since '05, I'm a seasoned builder and have been around numerous groups and GB events and never once saw or heard anyone tear down another cosplayers equipment. The problem is that this "fear" is gaining traction so much that builders and screen accuracy folks are getting lumped into the elites/haters crowd. Does any one have any basis on where this started? I've pointed out to some of this Spirit crowd that without those that populate this very forum who were pioneers in measurements and tracking down the correct parts and fittings and made it so the fandom could have easily accessible light kits and ribbon cables and such that the Spirit equipment wouldn't exist or be as decent as it is. I'm a builder and proudly wear my built full size equipment and I've modded a spirit pack for my son and temporarily for our new petite lady GB, but I'm scratching my head on when it suddenly became wrong to strive for accuracy or to have the pride of building your own equipment. Kudos to Spirit for making the equipment available at a low price, but that price is also reflective of quality. The PKE's are well known by Spirit employees to have poor electronics, the packs are small with the stock thrower being even smaller with shoddy electronics, the traps doors are known to malfunction and the goggles are the most heavily modded piece next to the pack. The point is Spirit stuff isn't meant to be prop quality but more a decent looking piece that can get you through a few Halloween get togethers without modding them. I appreciate that they make it easy for people who may not have had the skills or money to get into this fandom, but I also think that this "elite/haters" thing is an internet legend that's suddenly encompassed the fandom and it's new crop of fans.

NOTE: The next paragraph is my own opinion

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of some negativity I've seen online (let's face it everyone is brave sitting behind a keyboard) I've never seen one instance of in person negativity. I personally think also that long established groups that have full sized gear and uniforms shouldn't just let anyone in just because that person likes Ghostbusters. Some of these older groups are also getting called out by the Spirit crowd for having standards and that's wrong. Most of the long time fans have been around since the days that you had to build your stuff to have it and created groups to showcase that and to do civic oriented activities. They had to work hard for what they have. I think it's arrogant for certain groups to automatically paint those who have standards as elites or "asshats" when all they had to do was walk into the Halloween store and buy their stuff and move on. I'm sure that there are groups that refuse to host folks with unmodded spirit gear, but that's their right for wanting to maintain their own personal group standards. Just because we live in the everyone gets a trophy generation doesn't mean that a screen accurate group should just let in Joe Shmoe who only has a GB shirt just because he likes Ghostbusters.

Full disclosure. I own a Spirit pack. I stripped it down, repainted it, added GBfans lights, printed a correct scale thrower, made a ribbon cable, and added a motherboard and Alice pack. I also own the trap and goggles both of which I modded and had the PKE until it completely stopped working after a week (the story on Spirit's business tactics is another story). I also own the varsity jacket that I plan to get a decent custom name tag on soon. The Spirit gear is fine for what it is and if it allows more fans to share in the love of the fandom, then Spirit did a great job. If you're only able to wear spirit stuff, than awesome. But going back to my original question, was this hostility a product of online hate that morphed into this perception that people are going to come after you if you don't have full sized gear or is there actually widespread in person harassment taking place?

Discuss.

(Writers Note: The views expressed in this essay are purely mine for the purpose of engaging conversation among fellow fans)
You seem to say there is no negativity re: SH GH stuff and then write a lengthy paragraph dressing down SH GH props.

No disrespect but maybe that’s where people are feeling looked down on from?

I have no idea. Just a thought.
#4909992
Ghosty- I had the same response. As a relatively new Ghosthead - but life long fan who saw the originals in the theater- I have Spirit gear and have absolutely loved modding it and personalizing it. I have never considered this possible distinction beyond the fact that I have mad respect for original builders and the founders of this community.
I spend hours digging through posts of pack and trap builds and marvel at the skill.
But this post seems to say “how absurd to treat people differently who wear what only my child and little lady wear.”
Even the response that there were these Facebook posts that had to be taken down because they said harmful, hateful things ... only to REPEAT THOSE STATEMENTS HERE. (Remove poisonous weed from over there, re-plant poisonous weed here.”
How does bringing the work of trolls to THIS gathering negate that hate?
Here’s the deal folks: there are 4 people left alive on this planet (I’m including Moranis) who got paid to wear the original equipment. The rest of us are ALL just expressing our love and appreciation of their work.
Saving the day.
#4909993
WillS3 wrote: October 17th, 2018, 5:41 amonly to REPEAT THOSE STATEMENTS HERE. (Remove poisonous weed from over there, re-plant poisonous weed here.”
Fair point, and I apologise for doing any of the trolls' dirty work.
My approach is often "forewarned is forearmed", and that that knowledge is the best way to combat something. I posted the examples to show that the vitriol isn't just something that's been perceived in the minds of those who embrace the Spirit Halloween gear (of which I am an owner and advocate), but was something that had manifested within the community.
WillS3 liked this
#4909995
I'm sure spirit will be the gate way drug into the franchise. Once you get hooked you want to improve / expand your GB props. I did have the feeling, seeing people putting all this time and money into these packs, why not take the next step. However I ve wasted more money on junk parts that I upgraded or never used, than the cost of the spirit pack. So it's hard to be too critical. Either way, the more fans the better
NotSabbat, jacklawyer liked this
#4909996
I built my Pack, huge investment and time, it looks good but its certainly not 100% screen accurate, in many ways I think it looks better. As for the spirit stuff, I picked up the PKE, goggles, and trap, they look fine on the belt. I look at them as accessories to the rest of the get up. If anyone is getting snooty about authenticity, quality, or really anything along those lines, then those individuals need to take a step back, and realize.
A. We all start somewhere,
B. It is just for fun, nostalgia, and love of the GB Franchise
C. When you really think about it..... we are adults playing dress up..... and do any of us, myself included have any grounds to judge.......

I say if the spirit pack is the way you wanna go, go for it! hell, buy the whole outfit pre-made! doesn't matter, your just showing your love for the GB world! who cares if someone else devoted more time, or money than you, only time that's really gonna matter is in a costume contest. Other than that as soon as you dawn a flight suit and the sacred patch as far as I'm concerned, and hopefully I am also speaking for the majority as well, your a Ghostbuster!
vipertv liked this
#4910005
Fair points everyone. And to ghosty and Will, my intent wasn't to slam or degrade the spirit stuff and I apologize if you felt that way. I was merely expressing my personal opinions and experiences. I've been in this game a long time and seen alot of hostility. When the Mattel stuff came out there was a whole "build not bought" arguement because builders felt short changed because they felt their hard work was going to be devalued by mass produced stuff. That was back in '09. If you weren't here between 2015-2016, you weren't privy to the reboot/classic civil war. And now here we are 2 years later with the Spirit/scratch debate. I'm happy at that Spirit is making it easy for fans to join this great hobby, but I, as a builder, don't appreciate the art of screen accuracy or building your own equipment being pushed away. As newer fans, I welcome you and encourage you to try your own builds because not too long ago that was the only way you could have any of this gear. I know to me it's extremely rewarding and satisfying when people ask where I got my equipment to tell them I built it. And I don't have a fancy workshop. I live in an apartment and build on my kitchen table. I've seen some folks make "hardware" reboot builds in their bed rooms. As a 13 year member of this site as well as a builder, I fully admit to being old school that you built a pack and earned your stripes. Now it's no longer the case. Just as older folks trying to come to grips with technology, it just takes time to relearn how things are done. I'll continue to build because 1. I enjoy it and 2. I'm good at it, and love to challenge myself with new methods. But back to the original point of the post. Has there been a mass in person degrading of Spirit gear or is just a boogie man created by new fans who are still learning the cosplay aspect of this hobby.

Please don't assume that I'm trolling with this post. I just want everyone to enjoy this fandom, scratch, spirit, cardboard, or whatever. I love to discuss build techniques and share my methods with whoever asks. If Spirit is your game, awesome. If scratch is your game, awesome. But these perceptions need to stop because it weakens the fanbase and keeps it from growing. I'm guilty of that as evidenced in my first post. It wasn't intentional but did come across as condescending. For that I apologize.

Image

At the end of the day, spirit, full size, if you have the look and it makes you happy and makes the public happy, mission accomplished.
WillS3, One time, vipertv liked this
#4910010
I know for sure that I wasn't harassed when I wore my Spirit pack to Comic Con. I now have their Ghost Trap but I do have the MattyCollector PKE Meter, and I have plans for homemade Ecto Goggles.
#4910012
A part of this hate ive seen can also be linked back to money. My background in model and prop building comes from 15+ years of following airsoft and real firearms (Hold on i have a point to make while stating this) Back in the late 90s if you wanted a good gun you had to spend hundreds of dollars ($4-600 easy) for a basic model with no frills or accessories. it was a bit of a badge of honor that you could claim you had X amount of money in to one of your guns. well fast forward to mid 2000s companies where offering up much cheaper alternatives for +/- $100 that could compete with the much more expensive models. and alot of the older guys would bash and belittle them for using an "inferior" gun because of the price and never look at the performance of it or look at the financial situation of the owner. The drop in price to get in to the hobby caused an influx of new players and fans and that in turn caused drama.

Back in 2008 I went to a convention there a franchise was set up and I was so eager to learn and see the gear and rather than talking about the gear it was all prices, guys going back and forth about what they spent. All I learned was that these guys where spending. Now with Spirit making an inexpensive pack that anyone on a budget can go buy im seeing the same thing all over.

Is there other issues that cause this other than money? Yes this is just one ive seen first hand that almost mirrors what we are dealing with now
#4910016
It's amazing how hard the ego fights back. One shouldn't need to belittle another nor expect the same from them to feel good about their own accomplishments. You spend 4 digits and many hours building your own? Someone buying a stock Spirit pack doesn't detract from that. Don't let it. There's value in both: monetary value in the Spirit pack, being inexpensive, and sentimental value, a sense of pride and accomplishment, in your hand-built pack. And those two things aren't at odds. One doesn't take away from the other. Both people can celebrate their gear, and each other's!
jreverhart liked this
#4910026
DarkSpectre wrote: October 17th, 2018, 9:57 amHas there been a mass in person degrading of Spirit gear or is just a boogie man created by new fans who are still learning the cosplay aspect of this hobby.
My issue with that phrasing there is that is still sorta suggests that the newer community members are just imagining it... Or that they "just need to develop a thicker skin"...
Even though I've seen two facebook threads, and a shared post from the Northern Virginia Ghostbusters taking potshots at fans wearing the Spirit Halloween Proton Pack.

There may only have been a handful of bullying incidents at conventions... That we're aware of... But the online stuff doesn't lose its edge because it happens to be online, posted by people from the safety and anonymity of their keyboards and monitors.
NotSabbat liked this
#4910028
Truth, Ben. I apologize for the phrasing. I just want to know where it started? There’s like a 300 comment deep post on Franchises Worldwide that started out by asking if they bought spirit gear if they’d be harassed. I’m more interested where that started. I’ll admit that I ragged on the spirit packs last year. But I still bought one. But I’ve not really said anything after some good friends from this hobby picked them up because that’s all he could afford. I’m working with him to make a scale thrower for it. I really don’t care what you have as long you wear it proudly and don’t be a creep or a pervert.
#4910033
I am Dan, and I own Spirit stuff. That's the first step. Jokes aside. I have always been into Ghostbusters, always had toys and one of the blue plastic packs back when I was a child. I always wanted a pack, money was a limitation, (wife,kid,house,car etc). My dad is the one who originally showed me the films and I was hooked. Fast forward to May 2016, my father passed away from stage 4 cancer. It hurt. It also mad me realize how little time we have, so much he wanted to do and now will never get too. I realized if not now, when? Then finally I found people modding this new Spirit pack. I found a coupon, and purchased one. It's now very modified thanks to all of the awesome community and their 3d goodies. Now onto my point.

Everyone on here was so welcoming, so I added alot of GB groups on FB. All friendly,except for one. I will not throw names, but it is a larger group. It is extremely toxic for someone just wanting to have fun and shoot the shit about one of our favorite movies. Mocking, insulting, etc.

Now for the finally. Since the new film has come out, I have noticed ALOT of new cool stuff coming out. Isn't that a positive? More people come in, more chances for awesome stuff? I'm not counting on it, but a chance for another film? My pack and showing her the films got my daughter into the fold and she asked if she could be a GB for Halloween. Again, new stuff released, for a store costume its pretty good. I'm not one to buy packaged costumes,but when next to my Tru-Spec suit its really hard to tell the difference. It had a coupon just like the Spirit stuff. Bam, another generation of fans that will cause new stuff to come out.
I'm done babbling, it just helps to get this kinda stuff out. I'm not complaining, turn the 'puter off and the trolls go away, but what if she decided to go on one of these sites? Its like harassing someone for not having the new Jordans.
NotSabbat, jacklawyer liked this
#4910121
I personally have not seen any hostility at cons but then again I am normally with the Star Wars Club at conventions.

I can see this hostility happening as there are individuals who want to feel superior to others and this is one thing they feel they can lord over others.

My thoughts is if people buy the Spirit items, hopefully it will lead to more members here who might eventually want a more accurate pack and we all win.
Sav C liked this
#4910159
This is all news to me. Then again, I don't partake in hardcore fandom like the Ghostbusters franchise facebook group/page. I've heard of "elite cosplayers" cutting down others because they didn't make every single piece of their costume and sourced it out. They're just bullies. I'd blow it off and let the admins sort it out.
Sav C liked this
#4910168
Unfortunately I think there probably is some merit to the inital post, there's always someone that has to dump all over someone else to make themselves feel better. It reminds me of growing up playing hockey and still playing in beer league now, there's always someone that chirps people for using old gear. They feel superior because they spent $500 on a stick or $900 on skates etc and they talk down on those who don't. Whenever I heard that going on I'd be sure to let them know that the scouts in the stands definitely notice all their top of the line gear, that's usually enough to get them to shut up. We play because it's fun and we all enjoy hockey, no one is getting drafted, none of us are going pro, hell half the time there's maybe 3 people in the stands. Same could be said about this topic, none of us are actually Ghostbusters. We aren't piling into Ecto-1 and heading back to the firehouse, and the spirit pack isn't catching any fewer ghosts than a custom built screen accurate pack is. And even on that front the stuff people are building now is better than what they used in the movie so is that technically screen accurate? Haha but thats a debate for another day. We do it because we love the movie and like to have fun with it. That being said there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking pride in the fact that you built it yourself, I just finished building out a Spirit pack and a then built a thrower to go with it and it was a blast. I learned TONS from reading and searching these forums and have met a lot of cool people that are willing to answer questions and give feedback because we all have on thing in common, a love for Ghostbusters. I think it's cool that it has opened a whole new avenue for people that maybe don't have the skills/time/money to dedicate to building a full size pack. I know that I've learned a lot of tricks and tips building the spirit pack up that I'll use when I finally get to build a full size pack. Like someone said above, we all show our fandom in different ways so why would you dump all over someone that shares the same interest as you?
jreverhart, Sav C liked this
#4910174
At the end of the day, the reason you put on a screen accurate pack is the same you put on a spirit pack--because you love Ghostbusters. I do agree with DarkSpectre that franchises are well within their right to only admit members with screen accurate props--but when it comes to conventions (like ComicCon), we should be donning our packs to have fun celebrating Ghostbusters, not to be trying to outdo and one-up each other.

Saverio
#4910258
Wow, a lot of good posts with valid points on here.

Some background, I have a full scale pack I built in 2008, and both a Spirit pack from last year's run and one still boxed up from this year's run. I also have a Multimedia Mayhem trap that I built, a Matty trap and 3 Spirit traps, plus the Matty/Spirit PKE & goggles. I now gig with the Spirit accessories because of the crazy prices of the Matty stuff shall they break. I say the more the merrier. I'm actually at the beginning stages of modding last year's Spirit pack, and I think they're great as a starting point —or— keeping it as-is, for a solid price point. I haven't had any issues with the Spirit stuff so far...

Regarding any hostility in person, I haven't seen any, but then again we've only exhibited one con this year so I haven't much public time with the matter. Actually, I haven't seen any out in the wild at all thus far. Heck, we had tons of folks come up to our booth and were floored when we told them that the Spirit pack we had on the table could be purchased "today" in-store for $70. I will be attending a few cons into the Spring and if I run across any Spirit gear equipped folks, I'll give them a high five for sure. We're all ghost heads! I'm not gonna lie, though, the builder in me would ask if they plan to modify it further and if they say no, then thats okay too. I'm not going to think any less of them if they wanted to rock out with what they bought from the store.

Shoot, I wish the resources that are available today were here a decade ago, my build sure would have came out a lot better, not to mention a bit cheaper.
I say we are all Ghostbusters, does it really matter?

Image
Here you can see our booth set up with (from L to R) Spirit pack, Matty Goggles, Matty "Neutrino" and a Spirit Goggles and Spirit Trap. (plus the edge of the reboot kids pack.) I think it all mixes well.
Sav C, SpaceBallz liked this
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