[LordVego]

Now I'm sure there's a topic about this already but it'll give us something to talk about. A lot of people don't like Ghostbusters II due to the thought that the story is way too similar to GB. Now, I love GBII. It rules. It's very close to my heart. I was just thinking, as I'm having a personal GB marathon day, and the only recycled thing at all is the love story. If you take that out then you really have a kickass story. Vigo was a great villain, with a great premise. I mean, imagine if it were Janine's baby! How do you think that would have changed it. Still recycled then?

Just talk, go on, take my ideas and run. Go, children of the night!

[clortho]

I don't think Ghostbusters II was recycled in the least. I think it shared similar elements from the first movie, but then again, what sequels don't?

GB2 is on par with GB1 to me. Always has been. Honestly, I've probably seen it just as many times as the first one. Besides the love story, there are similar "recycled" bits, if you can call it that.

"Going out of business" would (to me any way) be similar to Ray, Peter, and Egon getting kicked out of Columbia. It took them the Sedgewick Hotel bust to really pop in to the public eye, similar to how the court room scene made everyone realize they're back (cue in the montage after each bust).

There's a reason Winston didn't help out in the courtroom scene, and I think it was more to pay homage to the first film. It has been FIVE years since the last movie.. audiences needed to get revved up.

Janosz's possession shared a lot of similarities to Vinz Clortho and Zuul.. since they were minions of Gozer, similar to how Janosz was a minion of Vigo.

Hardemeyer = Walter Peck

Umm.. that's all I can think of off the top of my head.. but I don't consider this recycling the first movie. It shares similar plot points... what sequel doesn't?

Now I think I'm gonna pop in GB2 as well. =D

[CJay]

I'm pretty sure including Dana was more or less a next-to-the last minute choice in order to fully lock Bill Murray in on the project. He was very much against the idea of doing a sequel, moreso than the others. Everything could have been easily recycled (Janoscz, Hardermeyer, montage, going into business/going out of business, etc) and I sincerely doubt anyone would have actually noticed the similarities, but when you toss Dana coming to the guys for help, then it's going down an easily familiar road.

I think that within the scope of the movies, the relationship with Dana gives Peter at least some moments to shine on his own opposite the Ghostbusters (which is an odd thing to say, since Dana never appeared in RGB, yet Peter was given as much screen time and character development as the others, same deal with the comics, although Dana did appear in Legion and it was a healthy balance for a plot very unlike the movies). You take Dana out of the equation for Peter, and most of the film revolves around Ray and Egon and you'll just have Peter in the dust mugging for the camera. Ever notice that in the two movies, they get some of the better, action-oriented scenes as opposed to Peter playing the smooth pimp with Dana? He's not quite the after-thought that poor Winston is, but he's dangerously close to that level. And I don't bank on the fact that Harold Ramis would have developed Egon/Janine in the way the fans hoped to fill that void either...the only thing I'd like taken out of GB2 would be Louis and Janine's blossoming "relationship" (although I don't hate Louis as much as some people, and he did have a couple cool scenes for also being an afterthought).

I noticed this too in several of the game's demo footage that you've got Ray, Egon, Winston and the newbie...but no Peter. I know this is early, but I'm certain that Peter's role in the game will be minimal due to this reason.

I'm also only talking within the scope of the movies. It probably would have been just as easier getting another love interest for Peter to help drive the film, but I think he and Sigourney Weaver had a chemistry that only Andie McDowall could match when it came to Bill Murray and women (P.J. Soles is a favorite of mine, from Stripes, but she wasn't in the movie as much to drive the romantic aspect), so I think it probably would have come off lopsided if they'd even replaced Dana with someone else.

That said, I've always loved GB2.

[ecto_skywalker]

I've said many times over, GB2 is my sentimental favorite, just because I was too young for the hype of GB1, but fully remember the summer of 1989 in all it's Ghostbusters II glory...

Many people have said that GB2 was made a little more kid friendly and I've heard others complain that it was too dark and not as funny as GB1. I would tend to agree with the latter, but that is why I liked it so much. I thought it was a little darker than the first.

And really, what else could have been done in the Ghostbusters world? After GB1 we already new what was coming, an awesome car, crazy props, proton beams catching ghosts, etc. The "shock value" is gone. so all you have left is the story. And to over simplify it, there is a form of evil, it threatens human existance, who ya gonna call?, the Ghostbusters save the world. In that context both movies are very similar. But it's the details in between all of those plot ideas that make the movies different.

I love both movies, but GB2 just happens to be my favorite... movie of all time.

And by the way, as much as I love the whole Statue of Liberty sequence... It does bare similar resemblance to another giant figure walking down the streets of New York in the first movie.

[Fritz]

Oh, good grief. GB2 was a fun movie, but the plot beats could have been photocopied from the GB1 outline.

Consider:

•Dana is menaced by supernatural evil.

•A clueless, hopeless wierdo is introduced who is all but stalking Dana.

•The Ghostbusters are down on their luck.

•Ray, Egon, and Venkman have a bust that turns things around for them.

•There's a montage sequence where Things Get Busy.

•The Weirdo is posessed by the bad guys.

•The Bad Guys get Dana.

•The Ghostbusters are menaced and put under lock and key by a dickless, jack-off beaurocrat, before the mayor helps them.

•The show down where something big walks down the street and steps on stuff.

That outline could be used to perfectly describe either movie.

There were some interesting ideas that made GB2 different. Vigo, the River of Slime. But a more original story structure could have made this a spectacular movie instead of a good, but derivative, one.

[Ray Stanz GB]

ive always heard, "stick with what works" GB2 was awesome. just because they had similar elements doesn't mean that they tried to mirror GB1. In the 80's if a movie had big scenes like the stay puff or statue of liberty it usually looked rough but was still awesome.

I enjoyed the fact that the movie had all the same characters in them. I mean yeah, something could of happened to janine instead of dana again but janine and lewis were hilarious and slimer was hilarious. lets just face it, there is nothing wrong with either movie and both have their strong and weak points.


great topic by the way (not sarcasm)

[Zack]

http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/ghostbusters2/

one of my favorite GB2 links. I'll never forget seeing it in theaters. I think by the very nature that the movies are basically "going into business" and "going back into business", they are different enough for having very similar formats. Seeing the guys having to resort to performing at birthday parties is just hilarious IMO. I doubt they intentionally set out to do it. Sure there are parallels but honestly I never ever thought about it until other people started pointing them out.

I think if you look at a lot of great sequels close enough you can draw more parallels. They blew up the Death Star at the end of Star Wars AND Jedi? "laaaaaame"

The courtroom battle is great. Far more dangerous looking now that I look at it. Two electrically charged ghosts, the Judge gets glass shattered down on him, Egon ducks Ray's proton beam narrowly avoiding it. I get an uplifting feeling just watching it. Everytime I see Venkman wrangle the fat Scoleri and Ray says "you got him! You got him!" Good to see all the guys together another time. Just think we could all be sitting here waiting for "Ghostbusters 2: The Video Game" or people wanting to see their old asses in Ghostbusters 2

Gotta love "On Our Own" and Run DMC's Ghostbusters theme. I do anyway.

[Ray Stanz GB]

one of my favorite GB2 links. I'll never forget seeing it in theaters. I think by the very nature that the movies are basically "going into business" and "going back into business", they are different enough for having very similar formats. I doubt they intentionally set out to do it. Sure there are parallels but honestly I never ever thought about it until other people started pointing them out.

I think if you look at a lot of great sequels close enough you can draw more parallels. They blew up the Death Star at the end of Star Wars AND Jedi? "laaaaaame"

The courtroom battle is great. Far more dangerous looking now that I look at it. Two electrically charged ghosts, the Judge gets glass shattered down on him, Egon ducks Ray's proton beam narrowly avoiding it. I get an uplifting feeling just watching it. Everytime I see Venkman wrangle the fat Scoleri and Ray says "you got him! You got him!" Good to see all the guys together another time. Just think we could all be sitting here waiting for "Ghostbusters 2: The Video Game" or people wanting to see their old asses in Ghostbusters 2

Dido

[Zack]

I dunno, I feel like even with all the "copied" scenes, the circumstances, events, sequence and characters of the scenes are different enough. To me anyway. Like Liberty being a copy of Stay Puft. Stay Puft was the form of the bad guy that was chosen to destroy the world, the climax with him blowing up. Libby was used by the good guys using the toaster idea earlier in the movie to get to the bad guy, the real showdown. I get that they're both large moving characters stepping on stuff but other than that, the similarities end to me. Just my feelings though!

[ecto_skywalker]

. . . Libby was used by the good guys using the toaster idea earlier in the movie to get to the bad guy, the real showdown. I get that they're both large moving characters stepping on stuff but other than that, the similarities end to me. Just my feelings though!

I do feel the same way. I just thought it was funny both movies had to have giants marching through the city.


Speaking of the courtroom scene. I love the "Two in the box, ready to go, we be fast and they be slow!" line. My buddy Adam and I must have mimicked that a million times that summer.

[RavenEffect]

I have to agree too. I always found it a bit ridiculous that people seemed to think Ghostbusters 2 was nowhere near as good as the first. Personally, I love them both equally. Was the original better? Maybe just a bit, but that was honestly mostly because it came first. Besides, A LOT of great sequels take what already worked and just redo it in a slightly different way. I can’t think of a bunch just off the top of my head, but one example comes to mind. Wayne’s World. Both movies were awesome, but they were both very much the same thing, just done a bit differently. Anyway, I’ve always loved Ghostbusters 2 just as much as Ghostbusters. Just thank goodness we at least got 2. LOL!

[ecto_skywalker]

Not to get too far off topic, but... There are just some movies that don't need to have a sequel. Another one of my favorite movies from childhood (and the same summer as GB2), Honey, I Shrunk the Kids did not need to have sequel. I loved the first movie and it was fun to see most of the same cast return for Blew up the Kid, but come on, was it neccessary?:lol:

[Spengler56]

I tend to agree with the premise Fritz laid out. I could think of some other parallels. I also thought the first movie was funnier. Though there were some scenes I loved like the digging, courtroom and Winston getting ran over scenes.

[Ectofiend666]

*Let's not forget about the recycled cut bits from the first, some storyboarded, like the Theater spook, the mink coat lady, and the fact that Lady Lib came out from the same spot that Stay Puft had originally been intended to come from...

*And then there's the original ending to GBII with Slimer zooming into the camera [and again yes I've seen this with my own two eyes]...

*Cheers.

[Dan AKA]

Dido

It's ditto. A dido is a penis piercing.

[CJay]

Dido

It's ditto. A dido is a penis piercing.

And a musician

[spdblue]

I keep hearing about Bill Murray saying there was a completely different script for Ghostbusters 2 that he loved and that was why he signed on for it only to find out that they ditched the script afterwards. I am so curious as to what was originally panned. I hope with all this GB3 talk some old info gets released along the way.

[rockstar232007]

I keep hearing about Bill Murray saying there was a completely different script for Ghostbusters 2 that he loved and that was why he signed on for it only to find out that they ditched the script afterwards. I am so curious as to what was originally panned. I hope with all this GB3 talk some old info gets released along the way.

It wasn't that they "ditched" the original, he was p***ed that the special effects crew got their hands on it first, and bisically turned everything in the script into an opporotunity for a special effects shot, it was like they took a lot away from the story somehow.

[d_osborn]

I keep hearing about Bill Murray saying there was a completely different script for Ghostbusters 2 that he loved and that was why he signed on for it only to find out that they ditched the script afterwards. I am so curious as to what was originally panned. I hope with all this GB3 talk some old info gets released along the way.

It wasn't that they "ditched" the original, he was p***ed that the special effects crew got their hands on it first, and bisically turned everything in the script into an opporotunity for a special effects shot, it was like they took a lot away from the story somehow.

There were a LOT of changes to the script after murray signed on the dotted line.

I'm pretty sure including Dana was more or less a next-to-the last minute choice in order to fully lock Bill Murray in on the project.

If I'm remembering correctly, Bill Murray signed on well before Weaver. In an old Starlog interview, Murray mentioned screen testing with other actresses for the the new female lead (which I'm pretty sure was named Lane... can't remember for sure). Pretty much everyone seemed to want Weaver back, though. According to the Cinefex GB2 article, Dana was even in Aykroyd's wacked-out first draft script for GB2.

[Ectofiend666]

*Does anyone know where to get a copy of Dan's "wacked-out" draft?

*Cheers.

[d_osborn]

*Does anyone know where to get a copy of Dan's "wacked-out" draft?

*Cheers.

unfortunately, it has never been released to the public.... online or otherwise. i would love to see all of the unproduced scripts wind up on the blu-ray release... but i somehow doubt that will happen.

[SeekerAfterTruth]

Oh, of course the story line is bloody well recycled!

I mean, there are the Ghostbusters in it. Like, how recycled is that? Venkman, Spengler, Stantz, Zeddemore. There are the uniforms. There are the proton packs. There are women! There are men! There is Janine! There is Louis!

</sarcasm>

It really depends on scope. If you want to stare at scope in such a way and perceive things as such, then you'll say the plot is recycled. Hell, if it was, we'd probably see cataclysmic problems. Sure, we have a pretty screwed up Carpathian dictator who isn't smart enough to enjoy the sweet life in San Fernando Valley.

Just a question- if the plot wasn't big, would we have really been interested in seeing minutinae for about 2 hours average? (No, this is rhetorical. Yes, you might. Would everyone?)

Most recycled bits of the plot are really common plot points, in the same way having the boys in grey is one. Personally, I loved GB2, especially with that version of the montage, which was pretty cool xD

I think what interets me more is that because this is a movie: we have to note that recycled storylines are presented differently. It isn't only how you read the script- it's how it appears when you see the movie. That's why its a movie. And if we looked at that, plot-wise-

GB 2 is distinct. Sure removes it from the recyle bin.

[dr_logan]

My only issue with GB2 is the fact that it did seem a bit rushed, and it did seem toned down a bit for the kids... probably thanks to the popularity of the Real Ghostbusters...

Other than that however, i love that movie.

As for recycling... I noticed some parallells, I just figured they went with a formula people would recognize from the first film.

It probably wasn't "Great" because the first movie broke ground, which made it great... and the sequal can't break ground when the ground was already broken... (And i am not talking about the street at 55 Central park West)

But to me Ghostbusters 2 was perfectly fine. It could have stood to have some more diversity from the original film's plot... but it got away with what it gave us.

At this point the Ghostbusters are such a cultural icon.... most would accept almost any incarnation of Ghostbusters, as long as it was true to it's predecessors... Unlike Star Trek movies which every fan and their mothers nitpick to death, Ghostbusters sort of frees itself from that scrutiny... granted every fan-base will scrutinize, that's part of the fun, but it's a bit more easily accepted and enjoyed as a cultural icon, as well as it being a movie.

[rodie]

Here's my problem with GB2: Slimer doesn't have legs. SO HOW DID HE DRIVE THE BUS!?!??

[Kid Chameleon]

Love of Ghostbusters is unconditional. You have to discard all the cliched critical jargon and give yourself over to the experience. I did this when I was seven and I'm still doing it now.

One of the things I dislike about GB2 is the relationship scenes between Dana and Peter; they dwell too much on the playboy-not-ready-for-commitment routine. In the original GB film these sort of details were kept to a minimum which allowed more emphasis on the supernatural elements. I never really felt this intensity with GB2; it seems to have more of a surreal, comic book feel.

The Keymaster

[SeekerAfterTruth]

Maybe he's doing it the poltergeist way

[Master Spider]

The fact that they are exactly the same should make everyone love the 2nd as much as the first. It's like eating two delicious pieces of cake in a row and not feeling full afterwards

[Deaditebuster]

To me anyway. Like Liberty being a copy of Stay Puft. Stay Puft was the form of the bad guy that was chosen to destroy the world, the climax with him blowing up. Libby was used by the good guys using the toaster idea earlier in the movie to get to the bad guy, the real showdown

I always thought this was a beautiful throwback of sorts. It's like "the first time, you slimeballs tried to stomp on us. Well, screw you, we're Ghostbusters and we'll stomp you back." Almost like they learned their lesson that giant creatures are quite devastating.