First of all, I've gotta get better at pulling single quotes for the sake of sanity. That being said, let's go!
Chicken, He Clucked wrote:Some of things a lot of people say could be classed as racism, it depends on the context. Also observational stereotyping isn't strictly racist. Racism is, by definition, a belief that attributes render one race superior or inferior to another. But you have to understand the context where black people were enslaved by white people for centuries. Context. That's what progressiveness is. A social course correction. It's about challenging prejudices and empowering minorities. I have a friend who says white people can't dance. That's not racist. The second part of the definition is 'prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior', this is what was happening to Leslie Jones and many ethnic minorities still have to tolerate at the hands of white people. Historically this far outweighs that which white people have suffered. That's not the same as saying black racism against whites is ok, either. But you need to take context into consideration also. Why is this relevant? You think Milo and the trolls were combating racism by targeting her? No, of course not, they were themselves being racist.
The context that black people were enslaved by white people? Why does everyone leave out the fact that the black people were
SOLD BY OTHER BLACK PEOPLE to the white "slave masters"? Or the fact that Jews were enslaved? Or the Irish? NOBODY has had an easy road, all races colors and creeds have had to deal with adversity. It's not an excuse anymore. I'm sorry, I know it's an unpopular belief. You want to know who has the right to call oppression? Muslim homosexuals.
You're right though, they weren't combating racism, but neither was Leslie. All in all I think my original point still does stand. She had a history of saying racist shit regardless of context. Two wrongs don't make a right. Perhaps this point we just won't see eye to eye on, which is fine.
Do you know who else says "Trust me, I know" but then spouts utter bilge? D. Trump. Do you subscribe to Alex Jones too?
If you truly followed Milo, you'd know that he has an agenda against feminism, ethnic minorities, islam and that his far right group is recruiting huge swathes of socially inept and angry videogamers and geeks into his alt right organisation, exploiting their insecurities to organise them against various boogeymen, politically-motivated targets, under the guise of righteous trolling and free speech. Milo himself has very little faith in his convictions, he just says what gets him followers, money and power. When Leslie Jones was cast in GB he was calling her a big black man. She was targeted by him.
There was no double standard, Milo wasn't banned for posting a Ghostbusters review, he was banned because he libeled Leslie Jones and rallied his followers against her. He was very good at staying technically within the rules of Twitter to orchestrate harrassment campaigns. Nobody was stopping Milo expressing his political opinion, but he wasn't content with doing that, because his political opinion is vile. He refers to himself as 'alt-right' nothing so-called about it. I'm from Britain, so I dare say I know more about Milo than you do, I've seen him here on our TV guest shows, praising his followers for attacking a fellow guest and stating women have nothing of value to contribute to society. The guy is a joke. Twitter gave him a ton of chances to reign in his toxic behaviour but he kept pushing it, and tweeting fake tweets of Leslie Jones being racist and homophobic, (accusing your target of hurling the abuse you are yourself perpetrating) is libel.
Why would I trust you when your conclusions are incredibly naive?
I had to look up "bilge", I don't think what I said could be considered rubbish, or naive.I never stated fact or even proposed to state fact. I stated an opinion. And, I didn't find it to be necessary to go into detail about "trust me I know." I didn't want to hit you and the rest of the forum with a wall of text. But if it's proof that I at least have an idea of what I'm talking about, I'll provide it.
If you can say "I'm from Britain, so I dare say I know more about Milo than you do". Then I'll use that same argument.
"Feminism = Cancer" - is not anti-feminist. It's the so called "third wave feminism." The theory here is that feminism has turned into misandry masquerading as feminism. Instead of turning women into strong and equal, it has turned strong women into victims. Do I agree completely? No, but when you actually do some research and find out the actual theory of belief behind this "movement", it starts to make sense.
The "anti-minority" stance is not an anti-minority stance at all. It's mostly, at least from what I've seen lately, against Black Lives Matter. Which, when you look at the facts starts to hold at least a little bit of water. I'll use your argument, "I'm from America, I live in New Jersey. I work in New York, D.C., Baltimore, Boston, North Carolina, and Connecticut.. I have seen first hand BLM protests, sat in traffic, lost days worth of pay. I have been personally effected. Majority of these protesters don't even know what their protesting, spout about killing cops and whatnot. I understand Milo's stance on this wholeheartedly.
Islam. Even some of the most Liberal and left wing news sources admit Islam is a problem. They (for the most part) are still stuck where Christianity was in the 1600s. They throw gays off of cliffs, keep their women in ninja uniforms and don't let them speak. You can't be a feminist advocate AND be an advocate of Islam. It's just not possible. Again, I'll use your argument again. My brother is a very high ranking official in the U.S. Military. He has spent more time in these Islamic countries, I wouldn't say negative things about Islam if I didn't believe the source, but he validates it, and I believe him.
I stopped listening to Alex Jones about 10 years ago (after he went on a rant about scientists growing babies in cows). I listen to the No Agenda podcast almost exclusively now. The only neutral news source left on the planet.
I agree freedom of speech should be protected above all else. A May government in the UK gives me major concerns. But what happened to Milo wasn't an infringement of free speech. Twitter lets tons of conservatives use it's platform. Conservatives making out like they're under attack from Twitter is just political rhetoric. The freedom to abuse and harrass on a privately owned platform is not a constitutionally protected right.
I implore you to check out the information on Facebook and Twitter censoring Conservative news sources and articles. I didn't want to believe it, but it's true.
I agree though, it's not constitutionally protected, but when twitter sells itself as "the free speech wing of the internet", a certain connotation comes with that.
You do. There are lots. And some of them may be being monitored. And usually those supporters are posting viles stuff but aren't harrassing individual accounts.
Harassment doesn't have to be direct postings. Seeing this nonsense in people's feeds is harassment enough.
And I see people post things about coprs killing black people. Amazing how differently we see the world, right? #BlackLivesMatter doesn't mean cops lives don't matter, however Milo and the right want you to think.
It's just as bad. I see posts about killing Trump, Obama, Clinton, Bush, NONE of it is okay.
It's not that we see the world differently, it's that we're friends with/follow different people. I've been in situations with police where I KNEW if I was a black dude I would have been in cuffs. I know where the BLM movement comes from, and I absolutely sympathize with it and understand it. It's anything thing I've seen first hand.
Dare I use the "I'm from Britain" argument against you again? I've seen the protests and gotten stuck IN the protests a few times now. For the most part the people protesting don't even know what the message is behind it. They just hate cops and yes, white people. I've seen it. It exists.
Disingeuous. Twitter have never said these things are ok.
But the implications of their vast inaction says otherwise.
especially when you disagree with the politics of it's owner.
Exactly what I'm saying. Double standards based on political beliefs.
So what you learned was physical abuse is a lot worse than verbal abuse... so safe space from verbal abuse is the worst thing to ever happen to your country? Great logic. Was it one of those "triggered SJW'S" who punched you in the face?
The punches I've taken have been from a multitude of sources. Hockey, Martial Arts, that time years ago when me and my idiot buddies thought it would be a good idea to start our own "fight club". Sticking up for the chubby little Asian dude back in high school who used to get bullied all the time. I won the fight sticking up for him, and then the kid punch me in the mouth for sticking up for him. You know what I've learned from every fight I was in? "I need to learn how to fight so I don't get my ass kicked again."
Yeah I think "safe spaces" are probably the worst thing to even happen in our world. Name me ONE thing of beauty in this world that hasn't come from strife or adversity? It's important for children to learn they aren't safe, they aren't the center of the universe, and there are other opinions out there. This "safe space" generation doesn't understand the art of rising above adversity and making something of themselves. They're taught to put their fingers in their ears and yell "LALALA", rather than debate and try to understand the other side of said debate. It's funny when you watch Milo's college tour (especially the one in Chicago). THAT is the problem with safe spaces.
All the other actors are white.
Ernie Hudson is white?
No of course it f'ing isn't.
He's a man. Not an "It". That so racist, I'm going to go find myself a safe space. I'm sickened!
Again, read a history book and understand the importance of context. Also... who the hell 'ate up' White Girls... It was critically panned and widely regarded as a terrible film with an awful premise. But there's a comedic difference between a white person "blacking-up" - which has derogatory racist historical connotations of the b&w minstrels, compared to what the Wayans did. For a start the logistics of a black guy "whiting-up" - something which has never happened historically, is extremely difficult without prosthetics, and the film swaps their genders as well. That absurdity is played for comedic effect and observational ribbing of white valley girls (from memory, i've only seen part of the film). Your logic is missing context. Also be careful when comparing a comedian's material, which exists separately to their own political views, with the words of a journalist with a racially-motivated political agenda.
So, a comedian can be blatantly racist but a satirical journalist can't make racial statements? Also,
You're obviously a lot younger than I am, so your view is skewed of this movie as it didn't come out when you were in your teens. We used to get stoned and watch this movie over and over because it as hilarious. I've had this conversation endless times with the black kids I used to get BBQ'd with. They agreed with me, it's racist. We agreed it didn't really matter, it was funny and we understood it. But it was racist. This is coming from black guys and girls. They agreed (and still agree) that we as Americans have moved past this nonsense and should stop using the past as an excuse to make it OK for blacks to be racist against whites. Maybe you don't understand this because you're British?
How physcially attractive would he rate the original four - I'm sure he vocalised this too, right? Anyway, sounds like a great guy, what are his politics. Can I sign up?
I would imagine it would go something like "hot black guy, balding crater face, dick nose fatty, and goofy looking Jew that needs a haircut"
Sorry, British, couldn't give a hoot.
Sorry, American, we don't want to end up like you guys!
"Doctor... Venkman. The purpose of science is to serve mankind. You seem to regard science as some kind of dodge... or hustle. Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist, Dr. Venkman!" - Dean Yeager
"No, no, no. You are a talking monkey on a spinning ball, floating through infinity. You f*ckhead" - Joe Rogan