[HunterCC]

You are making excuses for a person's private information being hacked....because you didn't like how a studio marketed a movie???????????

It's a MOVIE! It's fictional characters! I'm talking about a REAL person!

I'm sure you see this all very differently, and that's fine, we all have our povs. But I can't see ourselves agreeing on this one.

No excuses made. For either Leslie or Milo. Like I said, they deserve each other.

Hopefully the people who hacked confidential info on her phone can be found and prosecuted. That doesn't mean Leslie Jones can't be called a troll herself for getting into a twitter war. "You reap what you sow". "Lie down with the dogs, get up with the fleas". "Don't feed the trolls" are all sayings that apply here.

[JurorNo.2]

Or maybe, just maybe, trolls shouldn't be picking on someone for months on end, if they don't want to be called on it. I'm tired of the Internet being ruined by these losers. The time has long past to ignore them. One gets blocked, another 10 show up. As far as I'm concerned the Internet is forever lost. And its due to the trolls, NOT their victims.

I mean, heh, to me thats like blaming the Ghostbusters for getting arrested because they didnt play nicey nice with Peck, lol. I LIKE that Jones stood up for herself. Im very sad that so many fans see that as a bad thing, as though somehow she was snitching on the fanbase by not keeping quiet. Thats not what GB should be about.

[RichardLess]

Milo lost his Twitter account. Oh the horror! Maybe I'd care more if he didn't literally call trolling "God's work." And to see Ghostbusters fans (not meaning you specifically) defending him as some kind of hero is sickening. Her private information was hacked...OVER A MOVIE! Wake up, people! The fanbase tarnished its own image. No one did that for them.

Glad we agree on "the horror" of twitter drama, lol.

Please show me where I defended Milo.

Leslie trolled some geeks. She had embarrassing pictures on a device they could get to. What they did was wrong, but what did she think was going to happen? You reap what you sow, IMO. Hence my comments not condoning EITHER behavior, but rather that they deserve each other.

Please show me how the Leslie/Milo controversy made the ghostbusters fanbase "tarnished its own image".

I say Leslie Jones, Feig, Sony, and company were toxic. Especially how they marketed this movie. And that's why there's drama involving the GB fanbase that didn't exist before.

Come on Hunter. Separate your hatred of the reboot from this personal attack that happened to Jones. Jones lives in a free society. She can have whatever she damn well pleases on her phone without needing to worry about being hacked, just like the rest of us. Trolling is no crime and her trolling, if that's what you think it was, was warranted from all the personal racism and insults she was dealing with. Fans are CRAZY. Saying so isn't trolling, why? Because people are crazy. Milo is just some right wing nut job trying to get a rise out of someone, that's his persona, his modus operandi. He just wants attention. If this had happened to a celeb you like, I bet your "reap what you sow" comment wouldn't exist. What did she do to deserve this? Star in a awful movie? Insult stupid fans? She deserves to be hacked and attacked for that? Come on man. Think for a second. She's a fellow human being. She should be treated as one

[JurorNo.2]

Fans are CRAZY. Saying so isn't trolling, why? Because people are crazy.

How true that is, lol.

My pass for Comic Con came in the mail the other day. Still trying to decide if I even want to go. I'm so disgusted with geek culture lately. Of course people will be less likely to act crazy in person. But the trust isn't there the way it once was for me.

[timeware]

I say go. Went to Salt Lake comic con a couple years ago it was a blast. Most people should keep to themselves unless you stand up on a merchandise table and shout "All geeks are assholes!" Now if you do that dressed like Paul Feig you might win a cosplay contest or two, or end up in a bar fight.

People are going to be to busy buying merchandise and getting their photo ops with celebs and attending panels. Doubt the subject will come up at all. Worse case scenario Xander from Buffy the Vampire Slayer gets drunk and destroys a hotel room.

[JurorNo.2]

People are going to be to busy buying merchandise and getting their photo ops with celebs and attending panels. Doubt the subject will come up at all. Worse case scenario Xander from Buffy the Vampire Slayer gets drunk and destroys a hotel room.

Yeah, you're probably right. Glad you had a good time at Salt Lake!

Yeah, poor Xander, Hollywood devours its young once again.

[HunterCC]

Her private information was put online, her website was hacked and altered and private pictures were put online by the same hackers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think releasing private info in this case is a crime, and not just a moral outrage, so those hackers should be prosecuted. I already said this before. I also hold Leslie, Milo, and other trolls accountable for their actions. Do they deserve prosecution? AFAIK no. Do they deserve to be called out for their actions, yes.

And no, "calling out" someone isn't responding in kind, it's actually calling them out. Pointing out what they are doing.. Leslie Jones didn't just call trolls out, she responded in kind, apparently from the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmicgfx5VrA

What I am pointing out is that this was intentional on the part of the GB16 people. I suspect not a conspiracy, just a consensus. From Sony deleting all but sexist remarks at times on their youtube channel, Feig's a--hole geek culture comment and dismissing valid criticism himself, McCarthy calling online critics basement dwelling homebodies, Jones flaming, all while playing victim. (Did they really add in a scene to the movie, where they focus on online trolls? Really?)

Others here have said this fanbase is tarnished by this controversy. Blame the trolls who misrepresented the majority of this fanbase, and blame the GB16 crew for trying to use it, basically throwing us, the fanbase, under the bus to generate sympathy for themselves and the movie.

If that is not enough for you to consider her being attacked I don't think you understand the meaning if the word.

First off, please heed this:

This is a warning for everyone, the constant bickering and taking snarky and snide remarks at other users isn't going to be tolerated.

Secondly, I think you should read what I posted earlier this thread. To sum up: There was attacking by trolls on both sides, including against geeks in general (which last I checked includes us as a group). Criminal attacks should be prosecuted. The non-criminal attacks should be called out.

[JurorNo.2]

Jones didn't have to "play" victim. She was one. Standing up for yourself doesn't mean you're not a victim. Look at the posts people left on her feed. For months. Her private information was hacked. Over a movie. And this isn't something that just happens to any actor who happens to be in a reboot. She was targeted because she's a woman, a minority, a big girl with a big mouth who knew how to stand up for herself. These inhuman trolls saw those things as "weaknesses" and pounced. Period.

Did Sony use it to their advantage? Yes, absolutely. They proudly admitted it. But never once did I take their statements to mean "All fans are a**holes." There are some a**holes in every fandom. This isn't breaking news. There is no need for you to feel offended on their behalf just because you happened to like the same movies. They aren't your friends. They are disturbed individuals (and that's giving them the benefit of the doubt). They are not worth defending. Calling them out IS NOT TROLLING. Again, that sounds like a "don't snitch" mentality. I will snitch on a**holes that are ruining my fandom.

[RichardLess]

Her private information was put online, her website was hacked and altered and private pictures were put online by the same hackers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think releasing private info in this case is a crime, and not just a moral outrage, so those hackers should be prosecuted. I already said this before. I also hold Leslie, Milo, and other trolls accountable for their actions. Do they deserve prosecution? AFAIK no. Do they deserve to be called out for their actions, yes.

And no, "calling out" someone isn't responding in kind, it's actually calling them out. Pointing out what they are doing.. Leslie Jones didn't just call trolls out, she responded in kind, apparently from the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmicgfx5VrA

What I am pointing out is that this was intentional on the part of the GB16 people. I suspect not a conspiracy, just a consensus. From Sony deleting all but sexist remarks at times on their youtube channel, Feig's a--hole geek culture comment and dismissing valid criticism himself, McCarthy calling online critics basement dwelling homebodies, Jones flaming, all while playing victim. (Did they really add in a scene to the movie, where they focus on online trolls? Really?)

Others here have said this fanbase is tarnished by this controversy. Blame the trolls who misrepresented the majority of this fanbase, and blame the GB16 crew for trying to use it, basically throwing us, the fanbase, under the bus to generate sympathy for themselves and the movie.

If that is not enough for you to consider her being attacked I don't think you understand the meaning if the word.

First off, please heed this:

This is a warning for everyone, the constant bickering and taking snarky and snide remarks at other users isn't going to be tolerated.

Secondly, I think you should read what I posted earlier this thread. To sum up: There was attacking by trolls on both sides, including against geeks in general (which last I checked includes us as a group). Criminal attacks should be prosecuted. The non-criminal attacks should be called out.

Hunter, you need to chill. This is real life. A movie is only a movie. Feig and Sony and McCarthy and Jones are right to call out fans. We are a bickering bunch of nobodies lol Look at it from their POV. All they did was decide to make a movie and they are attacked over and over for it. They are HUMAN. You expect them not to respond? Also I think Alpha was right to wonder about your comprehension of the word "attack". That wasn't snark. You keep on acting like Jones is to blame when she is the VICTIM. That's like saying a girl on the street deserves to be attacked because she wore sexy clothing. You are saying Jones provoked the attack and that's just an ignorant stance to have

[featofstrength]

I will snitch on a**holes that are ruining my fandom.

"All I can hear...
I me mine, I me mine, I me mine"

[HunterCC]

Or maybe, just maybe, trolls shouldn't be picking on someone for months on end, if they don't want to be called on it. I'm tired of the Internet being ruined by these losers. The time has long past to ignore them. One gets blocked, another 10 show up. As far as I'm concerned the Internet is forever lost. And its due to the trolls, NOT their victims.

I mean, heh, to me thats like blaming the Ghostbusters for getting arrested because they didnt play nicey nice with Peck, lol. I LIKE that Jones stood up for herself. Im very sad that so many fans see that as a bad thing, as though somehow she was snitching on the fanbase by not keeping quiet. Thats not what GB should be about.

If Jones and company had just called out the trolls, that would have been fine. Instead they did it your way, flaming back. Look where it got them. The only innocent people in this mess are those who got associated with this, including this fanbase.

There seems to be a narrative that Jones had "endured" criticism for months before responding, that is false. Just like there was a false narrative that Feig really wasn't labeling geek culture as a-holes when he was. Just about the reaction to casting info, not the trailer.

Jones, Feig, Sony, other media outlets were responding in kind to the trolls, from the very beginning. There's a right way to respond to trolls, and a wrong way. Right way respond with facts, and point out their outrageous comments but don't insult back, let them continue making fools of themselves. Even better for twitter, theres the ability to block and ignore, where the trolls can waste all their time they want, and their target never sees it. Wrong way is to flame back, and even worse make them the center of attention. It's what the trolls usually want. That and to get a reaction from the target, which Jones gave them in spades even before her data was hacked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmicgfx5VrA

Jones, and others, didn't stand up for themselves. They sunk to troll level themselves. Worse, it wasn't just personal, it was their marketing campaign. When things got really out of bounds with the hacking, that was wrong, like all the racist and sexist tweets, but it's also kinda hard to feel too much sympathy for the fire victims when they spent so much time fanning the flames earlier. This goes back to what everyone should have remembered, ultimately nobody wins a flamewar. It's just a shame some innocent people got smeared also, including us.

[JurorNo.2]

If Jones and company had just called out the trolls, that would have been fine. Instead they did it your way, flaming back. Look where it got them. The only innocent people in this mess are those who got associated with this, including this fanbase.

There seems to be a narrative that Jones had "endured" criticism for months before responding, that is false. Just like there was a false narrative that Feig really wasn't labeling geek culture as a-holes when he was. Just about the reaction to casting info, not the traier.

Jones, Feig, Sony, other media outlets were responding in kind to the trolls, from the very beginning. There's a right way to respond to trolls, and a wrong way. Right way respond with facts, and point out their outrageous comments but don't insult back, let them continue making fools of themselves. Eve better for twitter, theres the ability to block and ignore, where the trolls can waste all their time they want, and their target never sees it. Wrong way is to flame back, and even worse make them the center of attention. It's what the trolls usually want. That and to get a reaction from the target, which Jones gave them in spades even before her data was hacked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmicgfx5VrA

Jones, and others, didn't stand up for themselves. They sunk to troll level themselves. Worse, it wasn't just personal, it was their marketing campaign. When things got really out of bounds with the hacking, that was wrong, like all the racist and sexist tweets, but it's also kinda hard to feel too much sympathy for the fire victims when they spent so much time fanning the flames earlier. This goes back to what everyone should have remembered, ultimately nobody wins a flamewar. It's just a shame some innocent people got smeared also, including us.

Where did it get Jones? Jones is fine. The overwhelming majority of the media, her peers, and public seem to have no trouble sympathizing with her. They certainly aren't going to feel bad for a bunch of idiot trolls. And those trolls didn't "win" anything. They were losers and will likely remain losers.

There's a reason why Time Magazine did a cover issue on trolls recently. It feels like we're rapidly losing the Internet to these droolers.

And again, I really don't think people are saying "All fans are trolls." I just think you might be taking the marketing stuff a bit too personally. Like RichardLess said, that's not real life. Jones' private information is real life.

And saying "Oh just ignore the trolls," to me that's very 1999 Internet reasoning. It's different now. Trolls don't quit that easily anymore, because they know there are very few consequences to being trolls. And do you really think people don't try to use facts and reasonable arguments with trolls? Trolls don't care. They play dumb so they never have to admit defeat. They see attempts at reason and kindness as weaknesses, and bite back even more. They have supporters who encourage them (mostly, I suspect, so they won't be targeted as well). You can block some of them, but more take their place. Or they show up again with a different name. Because again, there are no real consequences. It was Twitter's job to handle the situation, and they dropped the ball for far too long.

but it's also kinda hard to feel too much sympathy for the fire victims when they spent so much time fanning the flames earlier.

To me that's like saying artists who drew Mohammed were just asking for trouble. No, the people who would kill over a drawing are the trouble makers. Not the artists.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

Fieg and co were flaming two groups: the misogynists and those who claimed the new film was ruining their childhood. Some of these people may have been part of the fanbase, but neither Feig, Jones nor Aykroyd were attacking the fanbase as a whole by attacking these 'trolls'.

Then there are guys who maybe aren't trolls, who aren't part of this fanbase but still think that GB is 'theirs' - that they have justifiable reasons to target this movie: politics, lazy reboots, they don't like Feig or McCarthy. See Comic Book Girl or RLM's Half in the Bag: These people then defend the trolls and implicitly support the abuse towards Leslie Jones because of thise fabricated narrative that Sony are the ones somehow flaming fans of the franchise and paying shills.

It's pathetic. You can openly and legitimately criticize this film and that is absolutely fine, the bias has always been one-way since the film was announced but let's not pretend it has anything to do with the quality of the film or Sony's response to the backlash.

[JurorNo.2]

Then there are guys who maybe aren't trolls, who aren't part of this fanbase but still think that GB is 'theirs' - that they have justifiable reasons to target this movie: politics, lazy reboots, they don't like Feig or McCarthy. See Comic Book Girl or RLM's Half in the Bag: These people then defend the trolls and implicitly support the abuse towards Leslie Jones because of thise fabricated narrative that Sony are the ones somehow flaming fans of the franchise and paying shills.

And those are the fans who allowed an ideology to become more important than their fellow human beings.

[savintheday]

See Comic Book Girl or RLM's Half in the Bag: These people then defend the trolls and implicitly support the abuse towards Leslie Jones because of thise fabricated narrative that Sony are the ones somehow flaming fans of the franchise and paying shills.

I don't recall Comic Book Girl or RLM defending trolls or the hack on Jones. CBG said it was important for critics to be honest about the film, and RLM criticized the internet for wasting their time getting up in arms over it.

[JurorNo.2]

See Comic Book Girl or RLM's Half in the Bag: These people then defend the trolls and implicitly support the abuse towards Leslie Jones because of thise fabricated narrative that Sony are the ones somehow flaming fans of the franchise and paying shills.

I don't recall Comic Book Girl or RLM defending trolls or the hack on Jones. CBG said it was important for critics to be honest about the film, and RLM criticized the internet for wasting their time getting up in arms over it.

I think he meant CBG and RLM were the ones representing those agendas, not specifically the ones defending trolls.

[savintheday]

They weren't "representing agendas" either. They were some of the few being very honest and level headed towards their reviews and criticisms of the movie. Just because the more extreme objectors glom onto them as a justification of their viewpoints doesn't mean they should be lumped in with the trolls.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

Both CBG and RLM told the narrative where Sony are smearing fans and mislabelling genuine critique as misogynism and trolling. Personally I find RLM to be 'Comic Book Guy' level obnoxious and certainly less funny than the Ghostbusters reboot, but I get that's the schtick they're selling and plenty of people are buying.

[savintheday]

Everybody's got their shtick. Ain't that right, Paulie?

And please, it's naive to think that Sony wasn't using an angle with it's marketing campaign.

[JurorNo.2]

They weren't "representing agendas" either. They were some of the few being very honest and level headed towards their reviews and criticisms of the movie. Just because the more extreme objectors glom onto them as a justification of their viewpoints doesn't mean they should be lumped in with the trolls.

I'm sure they were being honest, but they overreacted the same as all the other detractors. No one I knew in real life felt guilted into seeing this movie. People can't afford to burn money on movies; they only go unless they really want to, trust me, lol. Most of them barely knew they was a controversy. They just enjoyed the movie, no big deal. All three of my theater audiences, that laughter was genuine. And these were mostly just normal suburbanites who are more concerned about getting groceries after the movie than any SJW agenda. It seems detractors really have a problem believing that some people just enjoyed the movie. It doesn't fit their pov, therefore there must be something fishy. It's a typical human bias, we all can be guilty of.

And please, it's naive to think that Sony wasn't using an angle with it's marketing campaign.

But again, it's not some big conspiracy. The angle was "trolls are being jerks about this movie." That is a fact. The angle was never "Therefore all fans are trolls." Fans simply chose to feel some kind of sick solidarity with the trolls. Because it was easier to make Feig & co. the enemy, as opposed to the fanbase.

And again, most people don't care or even know about these manufactured controversies anyway. The general public isn't interested in fanboy/girl wars on the Internet.

[savintheday]

Yeah it's true that the big stink was pretty much confined to the internet at least. I've never heard anybody I know in real life even mention the movie. Typically these kinds of debates don't carry out outside of the internet.

That movie tho...peeee-yew!

[featofstrength]

Yeah it's true that the big stink was pretty much confined to the internet at least. I've never heard anybody I know in real life even mention the movie. Typically these kinds of debates don't carry out outside of the internet.

I get asked by "average joe" about my thoughts on the reboot just about every day because of the DST Stay Puft bank I have above my desk at work. People who know and recognize the original, even if they don't live and breathe it. The few that were interested enough to see das reboot share the distaste, and those that haven't seen it, follow my "it's not as good as the original" with nods and "How could it be?"

I recently picked up a RGB Louis Tully figure up a local flea market. The middle aged lady at check-out picked it up and went "oh, is that Rick Moranis?" From there it want into the reboot question, with another middle aged lady joining in...same answer, same follow up.

These friendly, casual exchanges really make my day.

[JurorNo.2]

those that haven't seen it, follow my "it's not as good as the original" with nods and "How could it be?"

I don't think any GB16 fans would disagree, except one or two Tumblr girls.

I guess some of it does depend on who you hang out with. I had a GB pin on for the past couple of months and everyone I talked to said, "Oh yeah, I'm looking forward it!" or "Oh yeah it was really funny...What was the big deal again?" Only a couple people disagreed and they were the fanboy/girl types. The girl was turned off by the trailer. Though bizarrely, she considered the trailer for Star Trek Beyond to be utterly brilliant. Go figure, lol.

[savintheday]

I just remembered that my sister-in-law did send me a link to the trailer when it came out. Her and her fiancé thought it looked good. Then again, he saw the original movie for the first time afterwards and hated it. He also thinks Imagine Dragons is a good band. There's no accounting for taste I guess.

[JurorNo.2]

There's no accounting for taste I guess.

Agreed in that case.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

There's no accounting for taste, but folks acting like anyone who likes the film is a shill or an idiot or has a political agenda is laughable. It was a 6/10 for me. Some bits I hated. But I liked it overall more than a lot of blockbuster films I see nowadays (Hi Marvel/DC). Plenty of guys I know wouldn't go and see it just on some principle against reboots or women. They'd watch Batman get rebooted, and Spy was no problem, but all of a sudden there was an issue with Ghostbusters. The reaction among men is genuinely weird, like deep-seated misogyny they can't even recognise - not talking about internet trolls here, just your average joe going "female ghostbusters? No thanks!"

[JurorNo.2]

There's no accounting for taste, but folks acting like anyone who likes the film is a shill or an idiot or has a political agenda is laughable. It was a 6/10 for me. Some bits I hated. But I liked it overall more than a lot of blockbuster films I see nowadays (Hi Marvel/DC). Plenty of guys I know wouldn't go and see it just on some principle against reboots or women. They'd watch Batman get rebooted, and Spy was no problem, but all of a sudden there was an issue with Ghostbusters. The reaction among men is genuinely weird, like deep-seated misogyny they can't even recognise - not talking about internet trolls here, just your average joe going "female ghostbusters? No thanks!"

My opinion, I see this as the lasting legacy of the Star Wars: Special Editions. Now here me out! Fans felt so betrayed, and so helpless and frustrated, for YEARS because Lucas refused to budge, refused to listen to the fans. The backlash of this has been an increasing distrust of filmmakers and their visions, on the part of geek culture. Directors are only good now if they cater to the fans' vision of what's right. Feig comes from comedies, he likely wasn't aware of this trend, and did his own thing with GB16. And that was something the fans could not abide. The early complaints I heard about this film were filled with that same fear I recalled seeing in Star Wars fans. That their beloved movie was being "erased" and there was nothing they could do about it. And a lot of fans still can't see past that fear.

[RichardLess]

Which RLM video are you all talking about? The one with the two dudes sitting in chairs discussing the controversy about the movie? Or was there another one? If it's just the one video with the two guys talking about the controversy and what makes GB great, I enjoyed that video. It seemed pretty even handed and fair to me. What's the other video you all are referencing with the CMG?

[savintheday]

The RLM guys might come off a bit snobbish at times, but they are damn good at picking a movie apart for better or worse. And they're usually right. My kinda guys.

Also, I don't see these two camps overreacting to the movie or pushing a narrative. Just reasonable criticism.

[kevinj319]

Milo lost his Twitter account. Oh the horror! Maybe I'd care more if he didn't literally call trolling "God's work." And to see Ghostbusters fans (not meaning you specifically) defending him as some kind of hero is sickening. Her private information was hacked...OVER A MOVIE! Wake up, people! The fanbase tarnished its own image. No one did that for them. If they want to fix that, they don't have to love GB16, but first God's sake, save the pitch forking for something that matters in life!

As has been stated before, Milo had nothing to do with any of this. I'd rather have a beer with Milo than most of the fandom in this thread at this point.