[RichardLess]

I don't think anyone on here can say with a straight face that GB16 is a better or funnier film than GB84. With that being said, when a film is rebooted or remade, is it fair to judge the rebooted film against the original? And if so, if it's not as good, has the reboot failed? I'm of the opinion that if you can't improve upon the original then why bother rebooting? You can say "well it's for a new generation" etc. But I don't buy that excuse. Star Wars and Indiana Jones are still passed down from generation to generation, same with Ghostbusters.

Now a sequel not being as good as the original is different, or is it? A sequel is the continuing adventures of characters we already know and love. I can forgive a sequel for not being as good, because I just love spending time with the characters(this goes for any sequel of a quality film).

When you reboot or remake a film, it's different. That original film is always going to be there. Especially if it's a beloved classic like Ghostbusters. Was there ever any chance that GB16 would be better than the original? Did anyone go in the theatre expecting that?

I guess what I'm saying is: did this film ever have a chance? Female controversy or not, rebooting a beloved classic is going to rub people the wrong way right off the bat. The filmmakers are already fighting an uphill battle. Money is obviously the main reason GB was rebooted. Did anyone on that filmmaking team think "ok! Let's make the best Ghostbusters movie of all time"? If they didn't go into production with that mindset, why bother?

[Commander_Jim]

I think part of it is whether it did a good job of modernising it/bringing it to a new generation and whether or not that was necessary to begin with. Which is where part of my problem with the remake started from when it was first announced, it was just so unnecessary. GB was still a very prominent film, screened often on TV and very much still a part of modern pop culture, and it was still a universe prime for expansion, not replacement. I doubt many under-20s havn't seen it. It was just all so unnecessary and unwanted. Compare it to, for example, the new Star Trek movies which successfully revived a thoroughly worn out franchise and re-introduced the characters and universe to a whole new generation. It wasnt better, but it did its own thing well enough and caused a generation of people to go back and check out the original series.

[devilmanozzy]

It brought the interaction of computers as research equipment to the forefront. Some characters in the reboot are given a backstory predating the formulation of the team. Erin explains why she believes in ghosts, Abby in a Ray like way believes her and they form a friendship. The original film doesn't do much to develop any of the Ghostbusters past histories, and the film doesn't show a very practical development of equipment. The new film gives a line of testing and prototype equipment. Also, they showed with the Proton box device, that they didn't just "know" how to do it off the bat.

The new film is more practical and the old film plays off things more for laughs.

Better to me would be Real Ghostbusters as it is more fully developed and explained than any of the films, but honestly it took longer to get there considering we're talking a show that ran 140 stories.

A important note in my argument that sheds a bit of light on my perspective, I like ghostbusters more as a supernatural Action film than really a comedy. If "comedy" is all you value in the Ghostbusters brand, you might as well skip anything coming out as comedy of the 80's type has long past. I likewise don't think the gender really mattered, and while the ghost baddie is male, the main human antagonist was actually the female mayor's assistant.

Overall, I think looking at the films, better is really not the right word unless you explain what you call better in the way of traits first. Lots of the reboot explains itself well, unlike the original that assumes you can guess it all out on your own or that it doesn't matter.

[JurorNo.2]

...Because we didn't have enough threads about failure? Man, what would the Internet do without something to bitch about...

I'm of the opinion that if you can't improve upon the original then why bother rebooting?

Because it's not a contest.

That original film is always going to be there.

Then there was no reason for fans to lose their minds over a reboot.

beloved classic

Remember what I said about what happens when a movie becomes too precious.

Did anyone go in the theatre expecting that?

No. Again, not a contest.

[JurorNo.2]

GB was still a very prominent film, screened often on TV and very much still a part of modern pop culture

You know what I've been hearing a lot online lately? Various forms of "I had no idea there were so many people THAT passionate about Ghostbusters." And no, they don't mean it has a compliment. Ghostbusters is fondly remembered, as a light hearted comedy that everyone can enjoy. Not something to be jealously guarded by fanboys. You mention Star Trek, there's a reason Trekkies have such a bad reputation (and I am one, so I can say this, hehe). They are known for their belligerent nitpicking and obsessive behavior. I don't think the general public ever associated Ghostbusters with that kind of thing...not until this year.

Still, again, I don't think this was really about a movie or a fanbase. This election year more than proves something very strange is going on in society right now.

[RichardLess]

...Because we didn't have enough threads about failure? Man, what would the Internet do without something to bitch about...

I'm of the opinion that if you can't improve upon the original then why bother rebooting?

Because it's not a contest.

That original film is always going to be there.

Then there was no reason for fans to lose their minds over a reboot.

beloved classic

Remember what I said about what happens when a movie becomes too precious.

Did anyone go in the theatre expecting that?

No. Again, not a contest.

I don't think you see the irony here. You are bitching about people bitching. You're caught in a loop! Anyways, This thread is an open question about what people felt. This isn't about box office, it's about opinion. "Failure" in this context means something a little different. Why do other people's opinion's about this film bother you so much? It's like you take it personally or something.

"Too precious" this is fandom, there is no such thing as "too precious". If I found out I was dying, the very last movie I'd watch is Ghostbusters. I'd play Dana's theme at my funeral. How's that for precious?(Oh and for the record I have no idea what you said about what happens when a movie becomes too precious)

And yeah, it is kind of a contest. It was always going to be a contest. What's the prize? Profitability and a newer franchise. Here's how I look at it: Some movies, like Godfather, Jaws, Raiders, E.T and Star Wars they are "unrebootable". Ghostbusters belonged in that same crowd, Sony just didn't realize it(though I'm sure they do now). People will accept comic book movie reboots, that goes without saying. You update a classic? You better have one helluva movie on your hands. Sony, Feig and Co didn't have that movie. They had a movie where a better version already exists. I think some of the sexist comments, deplorable as they were, stemmed from a "what? You're rebooting Ghostbusters!?!" Mindset. The reboot just couldn't justify it's existence. It's just a shame that it took our beloved Ghostbusters for Hollywood to realize that some movies, you do not reboot.

[JurorNo.2]

I don't think you see the irony here. You are bitching about people bitching. You're caught in a loop!

Um, with that logic, the Ghostbusters should have sat back and let the slime take over the city.

Why do other people's opinion's about this film bother you so much?

Ask the fans who freak out every time we try to have a positive thread or post around here. Ask the fans who demand we stop talking about the movie altogether.

Some movies, like Godfather, Jaws, Raiders, E.T and Star Wars they are "unrebootable". Ghostbusters belonged in that same crowd

Well guess what, it was rebooted. The world didn't end. And btw, Godfather, Jaws, Raiders, and Star Wars all had embarrassing, unnecessary sequels. Them being sequels do not somehow make them better than reboots.

Hollywood to realize that some movies, you do not reboot.

They have not realized any such thing. They will never realize any such thing, because they know their public far better than the public know themselves. They just redid the Dirty Dozen and Ben-Hur, 50 year old classics, and I barely heard a peep about it. Fanboys pick and choose which remakes to be outraged by, despite their claims of being passionate students of film. They weren't on any grand crusade for originality. They just overreacted to a movie, out of some juvenile worry over "continuity" and left most people scratching their heads. Frankly, being a prequel defender, you should be very familiar with fans overreacting to something new.

[RichardLess]

I don't think you see the irony here. You are bitching about people bitching. You're caught in a loop!

Are we supposed to sit quietly and let the river of slime flow on?

Some movies, like Godfather, Jaws, Raiders, E.T and Star Wars they are "unrebootable". Ghostbusters belonged in that same crowd

Well guess what, it was rebooted. The world didn't end. And btw, Godfather, Jaws, Raiders, and Star Wars all had embarrassing, unnecessary sequels. Them being sequels do not somehow make them better than reboots.

Hollywood to realize that some movies, you do not reboot.

They have not realized any such thing. They will never realize any such thing, because they know their public far better than the public know themselves. You guys weren't on any grand crusade for originality. You just overreacted to a movie. Frankly, being a prequel defender, you should be very familiar with fans overreacting to something new.

Why do you have to be so hyperbolic? "The world didn't end" just stop with that. The world didn't end but guess what we aren't getting any time soon? Live action Ghostbusters movies! People will loose their jobs over this movie underperforming, don't you understand that? Sony is in turmoil. Things arent peachy here, Juror. The movie bombed, badly. I am a prequel defender but I understand why people don't like them. I like them because they work in conjunction with the OT, telling one massive story.
And yeah bad sequels are easier to swallow than bad reboots. Look at the original Star Trek series, every other sequel wasn't well recieved. Same with Indiana Jones. Temple wasnt well received( though I love it) they made another sequel and people loved it!(Last a Crusade). A reboot is a decision that's much harder to fix and go back on. Sequels are easy to fix. If you make a reboot that people hate, you're screwed(Fantastic Four and Ghostbusters are good examples of this).

And yes Hollywood, or Sony, did learn their lesson. There is no live action Ghostbusters movie in pre production right now, which would be the case had the movie been accepted.

[JurorNo.2]

Why do you have to be so hyperbolic?

Um...

guess what we aren't getting any time soon? Live action Ghostbusters movies! People will loose their jobs over this movie underperforming, don't you understand that? Sony is in turmoil.

Talk about irony...

And yeah bad sequels are easier to swallow than bad reboots.

Not for me, and my opinion matters just as much as yours. Bad sequels are worse because they DO involve the original characters.

There is no live action Ghostbusters movie in pre production right now

There might be if fans hadn't lost their freakin minds.

[RichardLess]

Why do you have to be so hyperbolic?

Um...

guess what we aren't getting any time soon? Live action Ghostbusters movies! People will loose their jobs over this movie underperforming, don't you understand that? Sony is in turmoil.

Talk about irony...

Dude it's the truth. That's not hyperbole. People are being let go at Sony Imageworks. Just wait until the 4th fiscal quarter. This happens ALL the time when a movie fails. People loose their jobs. It's part and parcel with Hollywood my friend. I know too many people who have been on the wrong end of that equation

Edit: hey don't blame me. I paid for my ticket

[JurorNo.2]

Um...



Talk about irony...

Dude it's the truth. That's not hyperbole. People are being let go at Sony Imageworks. Just wait until the 4th fiscal quarter. This happens ALL the time when a movie fails. People loose their jobs. It's part and parcel with Hollywood my friend. I know too many people who have been on the wrong end of that equation.

If you care so much about people losing their jobs, maybe you shouldn't have acted like a movie killed your goldfish.

And btw, people can lose their jobs even if a movie makes money.

[RichardLess]

Dude it's the truth. That's not hyperbole. People are being let go at Sony Imageworks. Just wait until the 4th fiscal quarter. This happens ALL the time when a movie fails. People loose their jobs. It's part and parcel with Hollywood my friend. I know too many people who have been on the wrong end of that equation.

If you care so much about people losing their jobs, maybe you shouldn't have acted like a movie killed your goldfish.

lol that's not how it works. And again, I paid for my ticket. I did my part. Blame the marketing department, blame Paul Feig. They made a crap movie, not me.

[JurorNo.2]

If you care so much about people losing their jobs, maybe you shouldn't have acted like a movie killed your goldfish.

lol that's not how it works. And again, I paid for my ticket. I did my part. Blame the marketing department, blame Paul Feig. They made a crap movie, not me.

I'll blame the marketing department; I've never had any problem with doing that. But I'll also blame the fans who are still whining about a trailer months later and continue to confuse it with the movie itself. And even if you paid your ticket, you've still done nothing but bitch and overreact and make sure the word of mouth was anything but positive.

[Alphagaia]

Juror, I can really understand you are fed up with the contstant belittling of GB:ATC, but I see you are speaking with increasing anger.
Might I suggest you take a day off to calm yourself down?
I did when HunterCC and me got into a stalemate when a median is useful to sort out biased opinions and thought: well, if he just does not agree, who cares?
I see some merit in this thread, even if the OP has already made up his mind it seems, but I will form my opinion tomorrow after some thought to say it best.

[RichardLess]

lol that's not how it works. And again, I paid for my ticket. I did my part. Blame the marketing department, blame Paul Feig. They made a crap movie, not me.

I'll blame the marketing department; I've never had any problem with doing that. But I'll also blame the fans who are still whining about a trailer months later and continue to confuse it with the movie itself. And even if you paid your ticket, you've still done nothing but bitch and overreact and make sure the word of mouth was anything but positive.

Haha you're right. Next time my all time fav film is rebooted by a crappy movie I'll lie and say I liked it. "Overreact" you really do take it personally don't you?

I think you are giving my negative opinion a *bit* too much credit for the movies failing. But hey, I'll take it.

You're too funny.

[JurorNo.2]

Why should only I take the day off?

[JurorNo.2]

I'll blame the marketing department; I've never had any problem with doing that. But I'll also blame the fans who are still whining about a trailer months later and continue to confuse it with the movie itself. And even if you paid your ticket, you've still done nothing but bitch and overreact and make sure the word of mouth was anything but positive.

Haha you're right. Next time my all time fav film is rebooted by a crappy movie I'll lie and say I liked it. "Overreact" you really do take it personally don't you?

I think you are giving my negative opinion a *bit* too much credit for the movies failing. But hey, I'll take it.

You're too funny.

Aaaaand welcome to my ignore list.

but I see you are speaking with increasing anger. Might I suggest you take a day off to calm yourself down?

And no. I'm not leaving. I understand you're just trying to help, but just because he's being "calm" doesn't mean he's not out of line.

[RichardLess]

Haha you're right. Next time my all time fav film is rebooted by a crappy movie I'll lie and say I liked it. "Overreact" you really do take it personally don't you?

I think you are giving my negative opinion a *bit* too much credit for the movies failing. But hey, I'll take it.

You're too funny.

Aaaaand welcome to my ignore list.

And no. I'm not leaving.

Whatever dude. Have fun with that

[HunterCC]

I don't think anyone on here can say with a straight face that GB16 is a better or funnier film than GB84. With that being said, when a film is rebooted or remade, is it fair to judge the rebooted film against the original? And if so, if it's not as good, has the reboot failed? I'm of the opinion that if you can't improve upon the original then why bother rebooting? You can say "well it's for a new generation" etc. But I don't buy that excuse. Star Wars and Indiana Jones are still passed down from generation to generation, same with Ghostbusters.

Now a sequel not being as good as the original is different, or is it? A sequel is the continuing adventures of characters we already know and love. I can forgive a sequel for not being as good, because I just love spending time with the characters(this goes for any sequel of a quality film).

When you reboot or remake a film, it's different. That original film is always going to be there. Especially if it's a beloved classic like Ghostbusters. Was there ever any chance that GB16 would be better than the original? Did anyone go in the theatre expecting that?

I guess what I'm saying is: did this film ever have a chance? Female controversy or not, rebooting a beloved classic is going to rub people the wrong way right off the bat. The filmmakers are already fighting an uphill battle. Money is obviously the main reason GB was rebooted. Did anyone on that filmmaking team think "ok! Let's make the best Ghostbusters movie of all time"? If they didn't go into production with that mindset, why bother?

Yeah, the list of reboots better than their originals is pretty short. The Jungle Book, Star Trek, Ocean's 11, not much jumps out at me from this list below. Sony's rebooting of Spiderman had mixed success, and they are still trying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_film_remakes

I think a reboot of Ghostbusters was tougher than a sequel would have been, but I think a GB reboot had a chance. Just obviously not with the GB16 cast and crew.

I don't think a reboot should need to be better than the original, it just has to be good. But seems like that's a factor.

[Alphagaia]

I agree Richardless is just as out of line with his tone and personal attacks as you both are just triggering each other.

Let's keep it civil, guys.
I happen to respect Juror and know what kind of awfull things already has been said to her, so I can understand where her anger comes from.
I just feel a bit protective and feel some distance might be the best solution.

[JurorNo.2]

I agree Richardless is just as out of line with his tone and personal attacks as you both are just triggering each other.

Let's keep it civil.

I'm sorry I snapped at you, you were just trying to help. Anyway, he's on ignore now, more than welcome to his safe space.

[HunterCC]

Juror, I can really understand you are fed up with the contstant belittling of GB:ATC, but I see you are speaking with increasing anger.
Might I suggest you take a day off to calm yourself down?
I did when HunterCC and me got into a stalemate when a median is useful to sort out biased opinions and thought: well, if he just does not agree, who cares?
I see some merit in this thread, even if the OP has already made up his mind it seems, but I will form my opinion tomorrow after some thought to say it best.

OK, someone please let me know if fire and brimstone start coming down from the skies, rivers and seas boiling... but alpha has a point here.

Juror, when you say stuff like:

...Because we didn't have enough threads about failure? Man, what would the Internet do without something to bitch about...

maybe you shouldn't have acted like a movie killed your goldfish

just because he's being "calm" doesn't mean he's not out of line.

When we mention people being toxic and trying to shut down talk of the movie....

[JurorNo.2]

Nice double standard. You WERE the one who kept suggesting we never speak about the movie again.

Anyway, bye. I'm only 30, but far too old for this nonsense.

[Alphagaia]

I agree Richardless is just as out of line with his tone and personal attacks as you both are just triggering each other.

Let's keep it civil.

I'm sorry I snapped at you, you were just trying to help. Anyway, he's on ignore now, more than welcome to his safe space.

No harm, no foul!

And yeah HunterCC, we all say things when the discussion heats up but what we are doing now is not helping anybody.
Let's keep it civil and focus on the discussion without angering/attacking/pointing fingers to each other.

Let's proof this thread is not just another excuse to dump on the movie and trigger it's fans by refraining from the personal attacks and movieshaming, everyone!

[HunterCC]

Nice double standard. You WERE the one who kept suggesting we never speak about the movie again.

Anyway, bye. I'm only 30, but far too old for this nonsense.

Juror, when I said this:

Honestly, maybe everyone here could follow HTs advice. Lets all drop it at once, and if they make another GB movie or animation, if it doesn't use GB16 elements, let's never speak of it again.

I wasn't accusing someone with a different opinion of being "out of line", or making any personal attack. I was suggesting a truce. See the difference?

Let's talk about the OP, and not be toxic towards each other.

[Sav C]

Another one of these threads? Good grief!

[HunterCC]

Back to the OP.

Why are Reboots always judged against their Originals? Shouldn't a movie be judged on it's own merits?

I get that the version we see first is usually our favorite. Most people that saw GB84 would have a tough time considering any reboot as better. Seems like Star Trek fans who first saw ST:TOS call it the best, fans who first saw TNG, or DS9, or VOY consider "their" series to be the best. Might be worth talking about why.

[Alphagaia]

Honestly, maybe everyone here could follow HTs advice. Lets all drop it at once, and if they make another GB movie or animation, if it doesn't use GB16 elements, let's never speak of it again.

I wasn't accusing someone with a different opinion of being "out of line", or making any personal attack. I was suggesting a truce. See the difference?

Let's talk about the OP, and not be toxic towards each other.

But that's not a truce, never speaking of GB:ATC is just censorship so one can act as if the movie never excisted.

I hope that's not what you meant?

Feel free to ignore the movie, but let others enjoy this part of the Forum dedicated to a movie they did like.

Now, granted, criticism is welcome, and useful, but it seems like a few people just invent new ways of saying: this movie should be considered bad over and over again and that's not useful at all.

[HunterCC]

Honestly, maybe everyone here could follow HTs advice. Lets all drop it at once, and if they make another GB movie or animation, if it doesn't use GB16 elements, let's never speak of it again.

I wasn't accusing someone with a different opinion of being "out of line", or making any personal attack. I was suggesting a truce. See the difference?

Let's talk about the OP, and not be toxic towards each other.

But that's not a truce, but never speaking if GB:ATC is just censorship so one can act as if the movie never excisted.

Feel free to do so, but let other enjoy this part of the Forum dedicated to a movie they did like. Now, granted, criticism is always welcome, but it seems like a few people just repeat the same stuff over and over or just invent new ways of saying: this movie should be considered bad.

Ummm... both sides dropping an argument is actually a truce. Period. That's what I was suggesting.

OTOH, "letting other people enjoy this part of the forum dedicated to a movie they did like", and saying criticism is welcome then in the same sentence suggesting some shouldn't be allowed, is in fact censorship. You are basically asking for a safe space.

Besides, why can't there be a thread talking about one possible reason GB16 flopped? Does the whole forum have to be monolithic? Do you agree it is possible to be a GB fan and not like all the stuff tied to GB16? Do GB16 supporters need to be protected from the existence of threads like these?

Care to make a post on-topic with the OP? Does a reboot fail automatically if original is better?

[Alphagaia]

Got ya, the it meant argument instead of movie. Thanks for the clarification! I can agree on that part, though what would the argument?

As I said in the other thread: critisism is welcome, but when it just boils down to numerous variations of the same criticism by the same people it really becomes unnecessary.

Regarding on topic part: I already said I would respond after some thinking so you have to wait a bit longer for that one.
I like the question though!