[DarkSpectre]

Rarely do Juror and I agree on anything, but GB 2 is one of them. What's funny is that I joined GBfans (GBprops at the time) in '05. GB 2 was held in high regard because of the new builds and uniforms available. I noticed though that when the reboot started gaining a more vocal opposition that suddenly GB 2 was raked over the coals in defense of the reboot. My personal dislike of the reboot comes from personal disappointment more than anything. I gave it a chance, I wanted to like it and ultimately was so disappointed with the film and myself. But GB 2 was a success finanically and was alot of fans first GB film to see in theaters (I'm old enough to have seen both first run) plus it had the cartoon to back and bolter it through merchandising and crossover.

Will ATC become a lot gem so to speak, I don't know. It will definitely be remembered for what not to do but maybe eventually the harsh criticism will erode and people will see it for more than what was pushed by media outlets and divided fans. The potential is there, it just needs the right team to guide it.

[JurorNo.2]

I noticed though that when the reboot started gaining a more vocal opposition that suddenly GB 2 was raked over the coals in defense of the reboot.

Not to disagree while we're agreeing, hehe, but GB2 has gotten a bum rap long before then. It was a shock to me too. But yeah I HATE that people used GB2 to defend the reboot. That was so unnecessary and so completely unhelpful.

and was alot of fans first GB film to see in theaters

Yup, that's me! And hey, maybe I wouldn't like it as much if I'd seen the first movie first. But more likely I just would have gotten over myself and enjoyed the freakin sequel.

but maybe eventually the harsh criticism will erode

What's interesting is the RLM guys were just mocking Extreme Ghostbusters for trying to be all multicultural, lol. Some things never change I see.

and people will see it for more than what was pushed by media outlets and divided fans.

Well yeah future generations won't care about all the fuss. Film is forever but no one will go hunting for 40 year old Tweets, lol.

[RichardLess]

Rarely do Juror and I agree on anything, but GB 2 is one of them. What's funny is that I joined GBfans (GBprops at the time) in '05. GB 2 was held in high regard because of the new builds and uniforms available. I noticed though that when the reboot started gaining a more vocal opposition that suddenly GB 2 was raked over the coals in defense of the reboot. My personal dislike of the reboot comes from personal disappointment more than anything. I gave it a chance, I wanted to like it and ultimately was so disappointed with the film and myself. But GB 2 was a success finanically and was alot of fans first GB film to see in theaters (I'm old enough to have seen both first run) plus it had the cartoon to back and bolter it through merchandising and crossover.

Will ATC become a lot gem so to speak, I don't know. It will definitely be remembered for what not to do but maybe eventually the harsh criticism will erode and people will see it for more than what was pushed by media outlets and divided fans. The potential is there, it just needs the right team to guide it.

You are correct. As soon as the hate on the reboot started articles starting popping up like "Gb2016 didn't ruin Ghostbusters, it was already ruined in 1989". Stuff like that. I realize GB2 has recieved criticism over the years but back on the 25th anniversary I saw multiple articles on notable geek sites appreciating GB2. Then you read the comments on those articles and people do love this film.

[JurorNo.2]

For the record, RLM's unflattering GB2 commentary was recorded long before they knew about the reboot.

[Peter33vr]

Sony is reporting to have a 1 billion loss after a string of box office flops.
I was wondering....could it be the result of Amy Pascal`s bad management. From leaked mails (not only the Ghostbusters ones) she didn't seemed capable to distinguish from a good idea to greenlight from an absolute mess to refuse to produce.

They had a Ghostbusters 3 script ready... and the director of Zombieland dying to do it. Who in the hell wouldn't hire him?

[Alphagaia]

No, the billion lossis mostly from them buying Colombia all those years ago and it still bringing down the books as a deductable.
They did not hire the Zombieland director because at that particular moment his latest movie flopped and he is not a big enough name, while Feig was a soaring star.

[Peter33vr]

And that's why there are rumours of Sony waiting to sell off Columbia?

[Peter33vr]

http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-bu ... u1tc7.html

Obviously, the fault is on ATC shoulders.

Was SMH a detractor of the reboot?

[RichardLess]

No, the billion lossis mostly from them buying Colombia all those years ago and it still bringing down the books as a deductable.
They did not hire the Zombieland director because at that particular moment his latest movie flopped and he is not a big enough name, while Feig was a soaring star.

912 million dollar write off to be exact. Shameful. Just shows how badly they messed up with what shouldve been an easy win. They have nothing of value left except Spiderman and you just know Disney is looking at that 912 million dollar write off and chomping at the bit. Yes they get Spiderman in Avengers movies etc. But the stand alone stuff still goes to Sony. And Sony has to keep making the movies to keep the rights. Sony's problem is they own nothing outright. Men in Black is shared with Amblin which means Spielberg gets his massive cut everytime. Sony only licenses Spiderman live action stuff. Cartoons and merch goes to Disney. Adam Sandler has jumped ship to Netflix. Their animation department has nothing but the Hotel Translyvania franchise which isn't anything to write home about. What assets they do have they still manage to alienate audiences. Barely anyone turned out for GB16, they are on their third Spidey reboot and Men in Black is DOA. We can argue about quality all the live long day, if no one turns up to buy a ticket it's all a moot point(from Sony's POV anyways).

Do we have any numbers for the home video release of GB16? I imagine it bombed just as badly there since we would've heard someone crow about the good numbers by now.

[Alphagaia]

From what I've read about this, their Netflix series (like The Crown) are doing well and they are thinking on focussing more on this.
Could turn out well for the GB cartoon as well.
As for the new animated GB movie that might still sell well as animation is the cheapest way to make a movie.

While it certainly did not help that GB:ATC did mediocre to bad in BO, I don't think they lost money on that one in the end.
Last I heard they made a million in the US on the video release of GB16 in the first two weeks, but that was like a month ago? Also don't have a clue if that is a lot or not! You would think people would be dissing to movie for this as well if it would be very low.

[JurorNo.2]

I don't know if this is helpful or not but the-numbers.com currently has various stats:

http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-dvd-sales-chart

http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-bluray-sales-chart

[Alphagaia]

Ah, my mistake: 1 million copies sold, with an earning of 23 million?
Am I reading this right?

[JurorNo.2]

I don't know if this is helpful or not but the-numbers.com currently has various stats:

http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-dvd-sales-chart

http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-bluray-sales-chart

Ah, my mistake: 1 million copies sold, with an earning of 23 million?
Am I reading this right?

I'm good at finding things but not so good at interpreting numbers lol

[timeware]

http://variety.com/2017/biz/asia/sony-w ... 201973089/

Reporting a loss on a 30 year old purchase now. Aren't companies like Sony supposed to include things like this in their tax filings? Think it's a bit convenient of an excuse. You have other factors like Disney cutting into their profits with a stellar movie year in 16. Angry Bird's and Ghostbusters weren't exactly cash cows.

[Sav C]

Ah, my mistake: 1 million copies sold, with an earning of 23 million?
Am I reading this right?

Yeah, I think you're reading it right.

[Sav C]

Sony's problem is they own nothing outright.

There's an easy fix for that if you ask me--just hire writers to write great original screenplays! It would probably cut down costs a lot, and hopefully make better profits.

Oh, and by "great original screenplays" I don't mean Sausage Party.

[timeware]

Calling back Sean Connery to reprise 007 for a reboot would have been a good idea. Think Spy Kids but with teenagers and more action.

[Kingpin]

Calling back Sean Connery to reprise 007 for a reboot would have been a good idea.

"Never again."

[Fritz]

You have other factors like Disney cutting into their profits with a stellar movie year in 16. Angry Bird's and Ghostbusters weren't exactly cash cows.

Oh, c'mon now, this is nothing new. Like any big corporation, media conglomerates have creative accountants who will barf up whatever set of numbers they need.

CEO needs to justify his obscene quarterly bonus check?
--"Sure, our movies bombed in theaters, but look at all the DVD/BluRay and licensing money! We swear!!!"

Actors, writers, directors with profit sharing contracts?
--"Why look, we crunched the numbers and it shows that even though you did a movie with a billion dollars of ticket sales, we didn't earn any money on it! We swear!!!"

[deadderek]

You have other factors like Disney cutting into their profits with a stellar movie year in 16. Angry Bird's and Ghostbusters weren't exactly cash cows.

Oh, c'mon now, this is nothing new. Like any big corporation, media conglomerates have creative accountants who will barf up whatever set of numbers they need.

CEO needs to justify his obscene quarterly bonus check?
--"Sure, our movies bombed in theaters, but look at all the DVD/BluRay and licensing money! We swear!!!"

Actors, writers, directors with profit sharing contracts?
--"Why look, we crunched the numbers and it shows that even though you did a movie with a billion dollars of ticket sales, we didn't earn any money on it! We swear!!!"

Hollywood accounting is just plain disgusting.

On a more related note, while Sony obviously bombed with the Reboot, hopefully they'll be able to take a step back and see what they did wrong and come back with something even better for all of us.

[JurorNo.2]

In any case, there's no way they'll make something that outright trashes the reboot, not after how the director and cast were treated (and still being treated in the sickest corners of "social" media). Maybe if fans had simply ignored the movie, but instead they made it personal and quite ugly. No studio wants to be seen approving that kind of behavior.

And frankly it's hard to tell if they did anything wrong with so much hyperbole still floating around. Plus box office is not, and never will be, film analysis.

Plus I've seen many indications that in real life people are liking this movie fine after seeing it on DVD or TV. Especially kids. Like I said, I'm positive future generations are going to be sticking up for ATC the way we do for GB2 today.

I hadn't fully realized until this year, but so much of this fandom is built on pure outrage that the first movie was never able to be repeated, lol.

[Alphagaia]

Yeah, I listened to the RLM commentary and it was shitting all over GB2, how the ending sucked, how much it looked like a rerun if the original, how fans just wanted them just shooting more ghosts, how useless Winston is, how unbelievable the plot is with people suddenly not believing in ghosts anymore and how muchtime of the original just hinged on dynamic between the main characters.
While GB2 definitely is flawed, I absolutely loved the characters and I don't think it deserves that much hate (Even though I agree the ending was a let down, and the 'NY does not believing in ghosts anymore' was weird).
The guys made the first one so great, the second was mediocre compared to that, and it's sad they could not recreate the magic of the first movie again. Now that the guys are old or dead that dynamic is lost as well, which is why I'm OK with new characters and new dynamics. I wished handing over the torch all started earlier, but it's clear the original arrangement made that very impossible thx to Bill (his hate for GB2 and his falling out with Ramis).
The new movie could have been great if it was continuation, but I understand how hard that was to do without Bill, and while GB16 kept it's story in a enclosed environment, the OGB can still be tapped and made famous again if the cartoon, comic or animated movie starts connecting those dots.

[JurorNo.2]

I wished handing over the torch all started earlier, but it's clear the original arrangement made that very impossible

I think fans saw Force Awakens and came to the erroneous conclusion that getting the band back together is always easy as pie, lol.

[DarkSpectre]

As long as the original canon ( Equipment, uniforms, Ecto, Gozer, etc.) were left intact I wouldn't be opposed to the 4 leads being recast. I personally view the characters like KISS where the characters transcend the actors. And if live action isn't viable, resurrect RGB or get Netflix to make a new animated series in the vein of Voltron. As more time progresses, I've made peace with ATC. Not that I'm rushing out to buy the bluray or anything, but looking back, I feel like the characters were really done a disservice by Dippold and Feig and by not passing the torch.

[JurorNo.2]

were really done a disservice by Dippold and Feig and by not passing the torch.

Again though that's not as easy as it sounds. If all the girls are there to do is get handed the equipment, well then they're not exactly active characters. You could make the whole movie about them messing up and then learning to listen to the old guard, but to me that starts sounding like an episode of Full House, too much of a "listen to your parents" lecture. You know I think I remember Dan doing an interview a couple years ago saying his SNL group had their time and now it's time for the new generation. Sometimes it's hard but you do have to move on, allow something different to emerge. And the same goes for characters not just actors.

[DarkSpectre]

But that may just happen away with 101 and Reitman's insistence on merging the timeline. So as it stands if that's truly the plan going forward, then Feig's characters will be part of the main original canon and under it's rules. Dan also was referring to a new generation in the established continuity, not a completely different timeline. I have no issues with a new generation, I enjoy Extreme GB but then again it still falls into the established continuity. And despite your personal opinions about the films themselves Jurassic World and Episode 7 continued continuity and introduced new characters, and whether or not you liked them personally, enough people did to make them successes. Which means that it can work. You didn't see Alan Grant walkiing on screen and telling Owen what to do. The TFA leads found their way on their own as well, despite Han and Chewy along for the ride. Hell Rey had to discover her abilities with out Luke.

[JurorNo.2]

But that may just happen away with 101 and Reitman's insistence on merging the timeline.

Absolutely and I look forward to discussing how they do that with you guys.

Dan also was referring to a new generation in the established continuity, not a completely different timeline.

The interview wasn't about Ghostbusters at all as I recall. He was talking about real life actors doing movies.

still falls into the established continuity.

I just will never understand the fixation on continuity. To me that's not what makes a movie better or worse. There are continuity gaps throughout the various Star Trek movies and series. I don't care as long as they're still entertaining.

whether or not you liked them personally, enough people did to make them successes. Which means that it can work.

Which only means they were popular. So was Bayformers. And anyway Jurassic World didn't pass any torch. It was the same movie done all over again only far more simplistically. The epitome of a soft reboot.

The TFA leads found their way on their own as well, despite Han and Chewy along for the ride. Hell Rey had to discover her abilities with out Luke.

Again, soft reboot (though not as flimsy as Jurassic World).

[timeware]

has anyone thrown out that 101 might be a prologue to Ecto Force? Dan's artwork is so amazing they could do a series of graphic novels and need not animate them.

[Peter33vr]

I think it's more Ghost Corps wanting to redeem ATC making it canon without waiting for the next live action; plus Ecto Force is set in 2050, Gb101 is set in 2016+90s.

Speaking of continuity....seeing the girls being handled the packs would have not been so interesting......but think about this: Ray show off the classic gear. Holtzmann starts pointing out how old and inadequate the tools are and comes up with a design of her own..

But I have to admit that I've softened up with the reboot thanks to IDW and the announcement of Ghostbusters 101.

[Sav C]

(Even though I agree the ending was a let down, and the 'NY does not believing in ghosts anymore' was weird).

I did like how the ending felt more conclusive than the first movie, though. In the first one they drive away it feels like anything could happen, but in the second one the montage makes it feel like they're going to be appreciated from that point on.

I don't really get how 'NY doesn't believe in the the ghosts' came about. In the movie I get the impression that their fifteen minutes of fame were over, that's all. Perhaps the media blamed them for causing Stay Puft, instead of being grateful they stopped him. Winston says that in a couple of years the kids won't even remember who they are, which I figure just means that the parents won't care enough to tell them about the Ghostbusters.

To me it seems more like a "we don't care about the Ghostbusters" rather than a "Who? The Ghostbusters? What are you talking about?".