Discuss storylines and progress on fan fiction and other works in progress and post links to your Fan Fiction here on Ghostbusters Fans.
#4798421
After reading Mr. Bardwell’s post, I’ve considered how one time-line could take in the various works in the Ghostbusters franchise, and the conflicts between these works that led to Fritz’ splitting his time-line in two. And I think I may have a few ideas for solutions to the problem.

Perhaps the best way to fix the problems is to assume that, as in the primary world, the Ghostbusters time-line branches in to ‘should-haves,’ ‘would-haves,’ and ‘could-haves’. What does every one think of that? (And, in particular, what does Mr. Bardwell think of that?)

The two time-lines would, perhaps, first diverge after The Gozer Incident: so that, as New York City has a stronger or a weaker law-suit against them, Ghostbusters Inc. is either shut down by 1986 or remains open through the years 1986-1988.

And, somehow, I don’t think the strength of the law-suit matters to its meandering in the courts for three years; any thing that involves every city, county, and state agency in New York is going to take a lot of organizing.

And both of the time-line's branches could well take in some episodes of The Real Ghostbusters. Would any of you have a problem with the idea that, when the crossed streams swung the Szandor building’s door shut on Gozer, the psychokinetic energy would not have gone away at once? (That, in Dr. Spengler’s analogy, the Twinkie needs time to shrink from 35 feet and 42 stone to normal proportions of a snack cake.)

Or, if no-one likes the idea of a branching time-line, perhaps another way to fix the time-line is to assume that not every episode of The Real Ghostbusters is based on one of The Ghostbusters’ cases. Perhaps, in the Ghostbusters’ world, the writers of The Real Ghostbusters wrote an episode to please one Ghostbuster or another? And, again, what does every one (Mr. Bardwell, in particular) think of the idea that not every episode of The Real Ghostbusters is based on one of The Ghostbusters’ cases?

I’m thinking, in particular, of The Real Ghostbusters: Adventures in Slime and Space; if that episode weren’t written to please one Dr. Peter Venkmann, then I can’t see any good way to explain the mayhem that comes from Slimer in that episode.

And, in their world, to have the episodes written up for The Ghostbusters may be a good explanation of the third and fourth seasons of The Real Ghostbusters’ falling away from the standard of the first and second seasons. In The Ghostbusters’ world, these two seasons of The Real Ghostbusters went down because the writers were on their own after Ghostbusters Inc. was broken up in 1986.

And how does every one like this, as a way to use both the events of Ghostbusters: The Video Game and Extreme Ghostbusters? The Ghostbusters’ break-up, at the start of Extreme Ghostbusters, was added to the cartoons because some one at Sony Pictures Television talked a certain Dr. Peter Venkmann in to making the change. (That is, if there must be only one time-line and yet Ghostbusters: The Video Game and Extreme Ghostbusters must both be part of that time-line.)

So, do these ideas solve the problems that trying to fit the various parts of the Ghostbusters franchise on to one time-line poses? Or do they cause more problems than they solve?
User avatar
By DarkSpectre
#4798424
Actually I believe Fritz compiled a really comprehensive timeline at weaved the show with the movies. The link escapes me but it was well done. I do like the idea of an alternate timeline being created when the streams were crossed though.
#4798437
Indeed, Fritz did compile a comprehensive time-line. And I’ve already seen it, over on his site.

But, since he compiled it, Fritz’s time-line has picked up a few bugs; and these bugs have forced him to split what should be one time-line in two. So I’d like to make that right, if I may, and get all the Ghostbusters properties (even Ghostbusters: The Return) back on to one time-line.

(Of course, that’s not to deny any thing that Fritz has done. Even if he does get a Dr. Egon Spengler wrong, by presuming that Dr. Spengler has eyes for any lady other than Urania [the Muse of Science].)
User avatar
By Fritz
#4798440
DarkSpectre wrote:Actually I believe Fritz compiled a really comprehensive timeline at weaved the show with the movies. The link escapes me but it was well done. I do like the idea of an alternate timeline being created when the streams were crossed though.
http://www.ectozone.com/gbtimeline/

There's actually three, but one of them is basically a "fanon" timeline that includes stuff from fan fics written by myself and many others.
Viggo_the_Carpathian wrote:Indeed, Fritz did compile a comprehensive time-line. And I’ve already seen it, over on his site.

But, since he compiled it, Fritz’s time-line has picked up a few bugs; and these bugs have forced him to split what should be one time-line in two. So I’d like to make that right, if I may, and get all the Ghostbusters properties (even Ghostbusters: The Return) back on to one time-line.

(Of course, that’s not to deny any thing that Fritz has done. Even if he does get a Dr. Egon Spengler wrong, by presuming that Dr. Spengler has eyes for any lady other than Urania [the Muse of Science].)
I'm interested in seeing more. I felt like I was pushing it to get GBVG and EGB to work in the same universe; I have a tough time seeing how IDW's post-GBVG stuff could work together without some massive handwaving.

And that last bit isn't just me--there's plenty of stuff from JMS, James Van Hise and a few others:lol:
#4798562
And that last bit isn't just me--there's plenty of stuff from JMS, James Van Hise and a few others
Then I'd be interested in hearing from them, since they've faced this problem themselves. And they'll be much more familiar with the problems of making Ghostbusters: The Video Game, Extreme Ghostbusters, the IDW comics that are set after Ghostbusters: The Video Game, and even Ghostbusters: The Return part of a single universe

(As I've only got properly back in to Ghostbusters over the last month, I don't yet know all the expanded material as well as I should. And that's why I don't have any more on my time-line, at the moment.)

But how much of a hand-wave do you think it would be, if one were to take it that (in something like Ghostbusters: The Return) the events are correct but certain details have been changed to protect the innocent? (Given that it happens so often in this world, I don't think it'll be much of a hand-wave to apply it to the Ghostbusters' world.)
User avatar
By Fritz
#4798599
Viggo_the_Carpathian wrote:
And that last bit isn't just me--there's plenty of stuff from JMS, James Van Hise and a few others
But how much of a hand-wave do you think it would be, if one were to take it that (in something like Ghostbusters: The Return) the events are correct but certain details have been changed to protect the innocent? (Given that it happens so often in this world, I don't think it'll be much of a hand-wave to apply it to the Ghostbusters' world.)
Well, here's some of the problems with The Return (henceforth abbreviated GBTR)

When does it take place?

Say it takes place two years after GB2, as detailed in the book. Okay, here's the problems:

Who's the post-Lenny Mayor? Arnie Lapinksi or Jock Mulligan? This could fit under the "name changed to protect the 'innocent' " idea, of course.

They're holding an election only two years after GB2, when there's clearly a different mayor (This is a problem with GBTR all by itself, where the writers and editors seemed to have changed course on some ideas and didn't get them all fixed)

Venkman and then Winston become Mayor, which is gonna raise all sortsa hell with IDW, and EGB continuity. You can get around GBVG by saying GBTR takes place after it, though there you're getting into the problem of moving GBTR further away.

Okay, move it to later after GBVG. Say about four years to fix the mayoral election situation. No problem, right?

What about the IDW stuff? It'd have to be before GBTR. You'd have to then kind of figure out why Kylie and Ortiz disappeared.

But then, you eventually start running up against EGB. There's certainly a lot of handwaving involved with having EGB and IDW in the same universe. (Ray: "Oh, hey, Kylie, sorry I'm acting like we're meeting for the first time and I'm a little annoyed by you even though you actually worked for me for a few years earlier in the decade") And good grief, Winston would either still be Mayor, or have just left the office, hardly leaving him time to go to Montana and become a commuter pilot.

I'm not saying the problems are insurmountable. But it does take a lot more handwaving than I'm comfortable with yet. GBTR is probably the single biggest thing that doesn't fit by itself. The incompatibility of IDW and EGB is probably the second biggest problem.
#4798760
I love your enthusiasm, and when I tried to tie all the GB stuff together it was a little easier the IDW stuff was in its infancy. They had said that their continuity runs GB1, GB2, GBtVG, and then their stuff, ignoring everything else (although I don't understand how Winston had a doctorate in tVG but is still studying to be a lawyer in the ongoing). Tossing all that out though, I think there could be a way to do everything in one time line, but it would involve editing out certain parts of certain works here and there. I like the branching idea, but Id do it a bit differently by using the the animated universe as the main timeline and the movies and tVG branch off as movies in that universe, the NOW comics, slimer and the real ghostbusters, and the marvel uk stuff as fictionalized accounts of similar events in the animated timeline. I'm not sure exactly how to weave everything together exactly though without checking my notes, but I do like some of your ideas. Oh and feel free to call me Harry or Bobert :)
#4800181
“Od’s Bodkins!

I’d no idea that the problems were that grave :sigh: . Still, it’ll be a chance to test a saying of the late Mr. Harold Ramis’ that I’ve seen in people’s signatures :-) .
Harry Bardwell wrote:I like the branching idea, but I’d do it a bit differently by using the the animated universe as the main timeline, and the movies and tVG branch off as movies in that universe,…
I’d be the last to say that there’s anything wrong with using The Real Ghostbusters as a main time-line, even if not all of the episodes would fit together neatly. And yet I’d go a little farther than Harry Bardwell, and take it that all the Ghostbusters materials are works of fiction in the Ghostbusters’ world (as they are in ours). But, in the Ghostbusters’ world, most of these works of fiction are based on true stories. How does every one like that?

And it’s great, to know that the branching time-line is a good idea. But, on second thoughts, it still seems an admission of defeat or (at best) of hollow victory. It is, perhaps, better to have one branching time-line than to have two or three separate time-lines; but these branches are still separate time-lines, even if they are attached to one another. So, good as the idea of branching time-lines is, there must be one Ghostbusters time-line. And no-one would have a problem with that, would they?
Harry Bardwell wrote:I think there could be a way to do everything in one time line, but it would involve editing out certain parts of certain works here and there.
So I’ve no problem with editing bits out, if the Ghostbusters materials aren’t meant to be exact and official records. (I don’t think any Ghostbusters fan needs an excuse, to get rid of The Real Ghostbusters: Surely You Joust?.) And yet, I think, editing bits out would be taken as a hand-wave; so, since I don’t want to offend any one’s sensibilities, how thorny does a problem need to be, before it can be ‘hand-waved’?

I think, certainly, that the problems of the second thoughts in Ghostbusters: The Return are thorny enough that a little bit of ‘hand-waving’ is in order. And is it too much to assume that, perhaps, one of Dr. Venkmann’s dreams found its way in to the text of Ghostbusters: The Return? (After all, The Real Ghostbusters: Mr. Sandman, Dream Me a Dream does show that Dr. Venkmann dreams of being showered with honours.)
Fritz wrote:Say [Ghostbusters: The Return] takes place two years after GB2 ... Who’s the post-Lenny Mayor? Arnie Lapinksi or Jock Mulligan?
Off the top of my head… Perhaps the best way would be to keep whomever’s the better fit with the mayor of New York in our world, in 1990. (I believe that was the idea behind the Hon. Mr. Clotch?) So Lapinski goes out, if Mulligan’s the better fit; and so Mulligan goes out, if Lapinski’s the better fit.
Fritz wrote:They’re holding an election only two years after GB2,... Venkman and then Winston become Mayor, which is going to raise all sorts of hell with IDW, and EGB continuity.
It’s always seemed out of Dr. Venkmann’s character, to me, that he would even campaign for a political office. Dr. Venkmann’s the sort who wants to get as rich as he can, as quickly as he can; and the less he needs to do in getting rich quickly, the better: he’s also the sort who’d make sure he has to do the least, to go on living “the good life” once he ’s got as quickly rich as he can get.

(Would any one else be amazed by how easily Dr. Venkmann fits in to any scene, in Back to the Future, where Vice-Principal Strickland casually calls some one a slackard?)

Indeed, I believe Dr. Venkmann’s campaign for mayor fails by its half-heartedness, and he enters the office by default. And so would it really be that much of a hand-wave, to assume that Dr. Venkman never ran for the mayor of New York City at any date (let alone in 1990)? As Fritz points out, it seems that the writers and editors of Ghostbusters: The Return had second thoughts about some of their ideas.

So my own instinct would be to keep 1990, as the date for Ghostbusters: The Return: and to treat the election as a mistake, and Peter Venkmann’s running for mayor as a flight of fantasy (to say nothing of his actually entering the office). That should, I think, do away with any problems caused by shuffling Ghostbusters: The Return about in the time-line (such as running Ghostbusters: The Return up against Extreme Ghostbusters).
Fritz wrote:There's certainly a lot of handwaving involved with having EGB and IDW in the same universe.
Harry Bardwell wrote:[IDW] had said that their continuity runs GB, GB2, GB:VG, and then their stuff, ignoring everything else. …
And I shall agree, since I’m not at all familiar with either, that there are problems with having the IDW comic-books and Extreme Ghostbusters in the same universe.

All I can say is that my gut tells me to take the IDW comic-books over Extreme Ghostbusters, since (according to Harry Bardwell’s statement) the IDW comic-books seem to be designed to fit in with things that are by Mr. Daniel Aykroyd and the late Mr. Harold Ramis.

That is not to say that one should ignore Extreme Ghostbusters, of course. But I do think that the series should be taken as a minor source rather than a major one, for what the Ghostbusters did in the last decade of the second millennium. After all, hadn’t Extreme Ghostbusters moved so far away from Ghostbusters that one episode actually dealt with racialism?

And shouldn’t a time-line that takes Extreme Ghostbusters as the minor source and the IDW comic-books as the major source need less hand-waving than a time-line that takes Extreme Ghostbusters and the IDW comic-books as equivalent sources?

To take Fritz’ example, perhaps Dr. Stantz and Kylie Griffin simply got on better at head-quarters than at the book-shop? They would have to be less familiar with each other, for the customers’ sake, at the book-shop than they coud be at head-quarters; and it doesn’t seem very unlikely that the formality would annoy some one like Dr. Stantz, who is very much an informal character.

(Can any one else hear him saying, “Call me ‘Ray’. Dr. Stantz is my mother… and my father, and my sister, and our cat. Although I’m sure Dr. Boots Stantz’s degree was honorary”?)

Or, perhaps, there’s some thing in Kylie Griffin’s character that would get on Ray Stantz’s nerves; and that something was left out of Extreme Ghostbusters. I can’t think what that could be, although I’m sure that looking in to Extreme Ghostbusters and the IDW comic-books (what a chore ;-) ! ) will turn that something up, and that it won’t need very much hand-waving to make that something explain the cooling-off between Dr. Stantz and Kylie Griffin.

So, like Fritz, I wouldn’t say that the problems of involving all the Ghostbusters materiel in one time-line aren’t surmountable; and, I hope, it need not take a lot more hand-waving than any one’s comfortable with. But what does every one think of this attempt at fitting Ghostbusters: The Return in to the time-line, and to solve the problem of the incompatibility between the IDW comic-books and Extreme Ghostbusters?

    I found a cool tube at Ollies discount outlet, and[…]

    Finally got my copy today - It's not the worst I'v[…]

    I don't remember exactly, But I think I've had pr[…]

    Someone ID'd them on Facebook first, there w[…]