Discuss the Ghostbusters movie that was released in 2016.
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By JurorNo.2
#4883812
HunterCC wrote:Well, GB16 debuted 2nd to Pets in the box office
Yeah...2nd...not 8th...

And then you make sure to say Pets isn't as impressive a competition as Dory. Every point you guys make ensures that GB16 is the worst disaster imaginable. It's out of proportion. Not to mention you still haven't seen the movie. You're fighting for a cause you've deliberating chosen to remain ignorant of.
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By HunterCC
#4883813
Sav C wrote:On the whole biased votes thing, when the highest voted rating among men (of all age groups) is 1, and the highest voted rating among women (of all age groups) is 10, it is pretty much safe to assume that most of the 1 and 10 votes have ulterior motives that don't concern the movie's quality.

Anyways, like I said I find these discussions pretty unfulfilling, so count me out.
Hey, if you want to post, it's OK to reply to it, right?

On the biased votes thing, when Feig and company make a movie where all men are misogynistic, hitler-loving, baby eating, trump supporters, and all the women are perfect angels that are always right, it would be safe to assume that a lot of men would vote 1 and a lot of women would vote 10. Right? :-P
By HunterCC
#4883814
JurorNo.2 wrote:
HunterCC wrote:Well, GB16 debuted 2nd to Pets in the box office
Yeah...2nd...not 8th...

And then you make sure to say Pets isn't as impressive a competition as Dory. Every point you guys make ensures that GB16 is the worst disaster imaginable. It's out of proportion. Not to mention you still haven't seen the movie. You're fighting for a cause you've deliberating chosen to remain ignorant of.
Heh, if I want to make out GB16 was a disaster, all I have to do is point out that Pixels made more money, and a better profit based on production budget, probably even more counting marketing. Saying it opened #2 against Pets, and omitting the fact that Pets was in its second week then, is pretty complimentary.

I chose not to give Sony my money for an insulting marketing campaign, and what has been confirmed to be a bad to mediocre movie. I wouldn't call my opinion a cause I am ignorant of.
User avatar
By JurorNo.2
#4883815
HunterCC wrote: all I have to do is point out that Pixels made more money
Well, congrats, you just demonstrated that money isn't everything. :)
I chose not to give Sony my money for an insulting marketing campaign
That's fine, then discuss the marketing campaign. You are not equipped to discuss or judge the movie if you're just going to let other people do the judging for you. By your logic, a lot of classic films were "confirmed" to be bad by mere numbers. Movies are not a math problem where you can "confirm badness." Especially when you're relying on the votes of fans who openly admitted they never saw the film either, lol. Come on. Take a chance and judge for yourself.
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By EJLambert
#4883819
Paraphrasing Bob Belcher: " I love you, but you're all terrible."
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User avatar
By JurorNo.2
#4883820
HunterCC wrote:
On the biased votes thing, when Feig and company make a movie where all men are misogynistic, hitler-loving, baby eating, trump supporters, and all the women are perfect angels that are always right, it would be safe to assume that a lot of men would vote 1 and a lot of women would vote 10. Right? :-P
Dude, lol, you haven't seen the movie.
By HunterCC
#4883832
JurorNo.2 wrote:Well, congrats, you just demonstrated that money isn't everything. :)

That's fine, then discuss the marketing campaign. You are not equipped to discuss or judge the movie if you're just going to let other people do the judging for you. By your logic, a lot of classic films were "confirmed" to be bad by mere numbers. Movies are not a math problem where you can "confirm badness." Especially when you're relying on the votes of fans who openly admitted they never saw the film either, lol. Come on. Take a chance and judge for yourself.
LOL, agreed, but both movies were disappointments on that front.

Yeah, I don't need to see the movie when talking about the blame-game dog-whistle marketing strategy, or how the movie was received rating-wise, critically, and in the box office.

I've seen enough promo material and the ending, to decide it looks bad, and I wouldn't enjoy it anymore than Highlander 2, the Star Wars Prequels, or Batman And Robin, except to give it the MST3K treatment. I get the impression that like Feig and media supporters have said, the movie "isn't for me" anyways. So why would I want to see a bad movie like that?

The answer is that I'll see it sometime, just because I've talked about issues surrounding it so much, and it has "ghostbusters" on it. But I'm not really enthused about it, is the best way I can put it.
Last edited by HunterCC on October 20th, 2016, 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By HunterCC
#4883834
JurorNo.2 wrote:
HunterCC wrote:
On the biased votes thing, when Feig and company make a movie where all men are misogynistic, hitler-loving, baby eating, trump supporters, and all the women are perfect angels that are always right, it would be safe to assume that a lot of men would vote 1 and a lot of women would vote 10. Right? :-P
Dude, lol, you haven't seen the movie.
Please tell me you know I was using exaggeration like Sav did with his "all men voted 1, all women voted 10".

And I actually hope the movie wasn't pushing any agenda THAT bad.....
User avatar
By Alphagaia
#4883836
HunterCC, we keep rebounding on the same issue: you don't agree a median is usefull and I do.

The NASA example doesn't proof a mean or median is a better way of getting the best result in a biased voting poll. Could you explain why you think it does instead of stating it does? You say its because knowledgeable people choose to use average rather than median. I say it depends on the situation and think your NASA example has no variables that are biased.

Maybe it's because I'm Dutch and English is not my native language, but by streamline I mean while the bias still exists, as it's impossible to remove entirely, it is filtered not away enough to not extremely delute the numbers.

You say I don't think a movie deserves a one, but what I really said is almost no movie deserves it. I know my English ain't the fault of that one, you just seem to misread it.

After that you say I cannot deny the controversy, but that is exactly why people are voting a 1 or 10 and those are voting because of the controversy, not because of the quality of the movie itself. I'm not denying it, I'm saying it pollutes the vote. At least you seem to agree on that. Which is why I think a median gives us a clearer view.

People opting not to see the movie because of the controversy do not know if the movie is any good. We, or at least I am, are looking what the general audience thinks of the movie who actually seen it. A bad B.O. does not automatically mean its a bad movie. There are many examples of good movies that had a bad B.O. so I don't think I have to name them here.

Furthermore you state your links have proved why a mean is better, but my link has already proved the mean is polluted by people voting 1's and 10's. This is exactly the bias I wanted to remove to get a fair number.

Lastly, if you want to continue this conversation, that's completely fine, but your tone is really starting to sour and things like 'head in the sand' over and over, I could do without.

I feel I'm keeping my tone courteous, it would be great if you did the same.
Last edited by Alphagaia on October 20th, 2016, 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By JurorNo.2
#4883837
HunterCC wrote:And I actually hope the movie wasn't pushing any agenda THAT bad.....
Well you'll know "sometime." ;) In any case, I can tell you it's not MST3K material.

Do you think all the good movies in history had excellent marketing campaigns? The two aren't joined at the hip. A lot of terrible movies have amazing marketing campaigns, and only make money due to hype. Comic Con culture has made trailers and pre movie hype far more important than it needs to be. Far more important than the movie itself, which is quite silly.
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By Sav C
#4883839
HunterCC wrote:Please tell me you know I was using exaggeration like Sav did with his "all men voted 1, all women voted 10".
I feel I should chime in here since you misquoted me. First off here's what I said:
Sav C wrote:when the highest voted rating among men (of all age groups) is 1, and the highest voted rating among women (of all age groups) is 10,
I didn't say "all men voted 1, all women voted 10," and what I did say was no exaggeration--please, go see for yourself: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1289401/ratings-all

Click on every age group for men, and you'll find that the rating that got the most votes is 1. Click on every age group for women, and you'll find that the rating that got the most votes is 10. I'm not lying.

Anyways, I'm back out. Anybody want to go talk about special effects or something? :)
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By featofstrength
#4883846
JurorNo.2 wrote:
HunterCC wrote:And I actually hope the movie wasn't pushing any agenda THAT bad.....
Well you'll know "sometime." ;) In any case, I can tell you it's not MST3K material.
I'd say its humor fell as flat or on par as the attempts at comedy in "Deathstalker and the Warriors from Hell" and "Hobgoblins."

And clichés and tech\budget limitations aside, "Soultaker" and "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank" might just be as cohesive in their storytelling.
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By JurorNo.2
#4883850
I happen to think Hobgoblins and Memory Bank have their genuinely witty, subversive moments. Give them a larger budget, they'd be real 80s horror/Sci Fi/Comedies. :D
By HunterCC
#4883863
Sav C wrote:I feel I should chime in here since you misquoted me. First off here's what I said:
Sav C wrote:when the highest voted rating among men (of all age groups) is 1, and the highest voted rating among women (of all age groups) is 10,
I didn't say "all men voted 1, all women voted 10," and what I did say was no exaggeration--please, go see for yourself: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1289401/ratings-all

Click on every age group for men, and you'll find that the rating that got the most votes is 1. Click on every age group for women, and you'll find that the rating that got the most votes is 10. I'm not lying.

Anyways, I'm back out. Anybody want to go talk about special effects or something? :)
My bad. I apologize for misquoting you. :walterpeck:

As far the male vote on IMDb, the top vote getter was "1". Yet the average male vote was "5". And the average female vote was "7.2" Considering the combined average score of 5.4 falls in line with the box office flop, and general consensus of reviews by sci-fi fans like HT and Nostalgia Critic, I'd say the IMDb rating balanced out correctly in this case. More so than the median rating of say...7 that Alpha mentioned.
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By HunterCC
#4883867
Alphagaia wrote:HunterCC, we keep rebounding on the same issue: you don't agree a median is usefull and I do.
Alpha, I said that sometimes median is good, sometimes average is. And I posted specific reasons why average works better in this case.
Alphagaia wrote:The NASA example doesn't proof a mean or median is a better way of getting the best result in a biased voting poll. Could you explain why you think it does instead of stating it does? You say its because knowledgeable people choose to use average rather than median. I say it depends on the situation and think your NASA example has no variables that are biased.
But you were claiming median was superior (and discounting average in our debate in favor of median). And there is the fallacy of trying to discount bias in an opinion poll, lol.
Alphagaia wrote:A median is useful to sort out those kind biased votes in statistics, which is very useful in this case. It's one the main reasons why statisticians use it and prefer it.
http://www.dummies.com/education/math/s ... ical-data/
So, contrary to the above, thanks for agreeing with me average is sometimes the better measure?
Alphagaia wrote:Maybe it's because I'm Dutch and English is not my native language, but by streamline I mean while the bias still exists, as it's impossible to remove entirely, it is filtered not away enough to not extremely delute the numbers.
Congratulations on being multi-lingual, I assume. I can only go on what you say rather than try reading your mind.

Mitigate or temper would have been a better choice here, IMO.
Alphagaia wrote:You say I don't think a movie deserves a one, but what I really said is almost no movie deserves it. I know my English ain't the fault of that one, you just seem to misread it.
No, I understood your meaning clearly on this one. You also said:
Alphagaia wrote:(10 and 1 votes are biased fanboys anyway and those numbers are almost even).
Alphagaia wrote:Or does one really think the movie was given either a 10 or 1 rating by the general audience
and
Alphagaia wrote:Yes I know even the general audience will give out 1 or 10s, but bias is still bias so to remove the bias the median is invented.
So you were discounting the 1s and 10s as not being valid, by characterizing them as fanboys and claiming using median was to remove that "bias". Now if you'd like to clarify your above remarks, and walk back your stance on that, I would welcome it too.
Alphagaia wrote:After that you say I cannot deny the controversy, but that is exactly why people are voting a 1 or 10 and those are voting because of the controversy, not because of the quality of the movie itself. I'm not denying it, I'm saying it pollutes the vote. At least you seem to agree on that. Which is why I think a median gives us a clearer view.
But you are denying the controversy is relevant by trying to exclude votes of 1 and 10 from the tally. When controvesry was part of this marketing and movie. People had strong opinions for and against this movie before and after it came out. There was plenty of promo material to look at, and early reviews. If you want an accurate survey of the general public in this case, it's inaccurate to not include everybody. And in this case, the IMDb data seems to match the box office flop and poor reception by many fans, a lot more than the median vote of 7 does.

No, I don't agree that it pollutes the vote. I am saying include these votes by using average.
Alphagaia wrote:People opting not to see the movie because of the controversy do not know if the movie is any good. We, or at least I am, are looking what the general audience thinks of the movie who actually seen it. A bad B.O. does not automatically mean its a bad movie. There are many examples of good movies that had a bad B.O. so I don't think I have to name them here.
In the case of GB16, the negative audience vote and bad box office line up nicely.
Alphagaia wrote:Furthermore you state your links have proved why a mean is better, but my link has already proved the mean is polluted by people voting 1's and 10's. This is exactly the bias I wanted to remove to get a fair number.
I explained to you myself why your reasoning is wrong, above. If you disagree I did explain a little more in previous posts, if that helps.
Alphagaia wrote:Lastly, if you want to continue this conversation, that's completely fine, but your tone is really starting to sour and things like 'head in the sand' over and over, I could do without.

I feel I'm keeping my tone courteous, it would be great if you did the same.
Alpha, you haven't kept the tone courteous with comments like:
Alphagaia wrote:@HunterCC: You don't seem to know what a median is.
Alphagaia wrote:If you fail to understand that, and just decide to ignore the median and what it stands for, I think we are done here.
Alphagaia wrote:I think your biggest problem seems to be....
Alphagaia wrote:Since you are the only one having a problem understanding this..
I would welcome you and I both being friendlier to each other. Just please don't pull a Leslie Jones, fire shots like above and then cry victimhood. If you'd like to drop comments like these that you and I have made to each other, then let's just drop them and move on.
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By Alphagaia
#4883885
I feel we are getting somewhere! On the courteous part, I had no idea most of those remark where being uncourteous. Maybe it's how one reads it in his mind. I honestly thought you did not know what a median was useful for, which is not a big deal, and to be honest I see no problems with the others except maybe for the one 'I think we are done here', but that was after a few fruitless attempts of us trying to persuade each other we with the tone already souering.

Anyhow, I can assure you I meant no disrespect, I thought I was just giving out a fact, not trying to put you down. Probably just because I phrase things a tad matter of fact in English. No harm intended!

Anyways, I got a busy weekend coming up, and today me and my girlfriend have taken the day of to enjoy some good food and nice scenery, so I'll probably come back in a good deal later to see if we can sort out this mess. But I see some light in the end of this tunnel! ;-)
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By HunterCC
#4883911
Alphagaia wrote:I feel we are getting somewhere! On the courteous part, I had no idea most of those remark where being uncourteous. Maybe it's how one reads it in his mind. I honestly thought you did not know what a median was useful for, which is not a big deal, and to be honest I see no problems with the others except maybe for the one 'I think we are done here', but that was after a few fruitless attempts of us trying to persuade each other we with the tone already souering.

Anyhow, I can assure you I meant no disrespect, I thought I was just giving out a fact, not trying to put you down. Probably just because I phrase things a tad matter of fact in English. No harm intended!

Anyways, I got a busy weekend coming up, and today me and my girlfriend have taken the day of to enjoy some good food and nice scenery, so I'll probably come back in a good deal later to see if we can sort out this mess. But I see some light in the end of this tunnel! ;-)
No problem. Funnily enough, I got the distinct impression you didn't know what you were talking about.

Have a great weekend! :cool:
By pferreira1983
#4884026
EJLambert wrote:You know that a lot of members on this board actually liked the movie.
However I'm one man, one individual who doesn't. :mrgreen:
Alphagaia wrote:Or, you just ignore the things you don't like, so the people who do like it still get to enjoy it!
DarkSpectre wrote:We all have to start somewhere, lol. My first packs were laughably bad but there was a sense of pride telling people that I had built it.
And that's why I'm saving up and paying someone to build a pack for me. (high fives air). :lol:

Am I glad the film flopped? The easy answer is to say yes as it gave Sony the wake-up to the fact that there are passionate Ghostbusters fans and that maybe they should have listened at least a little to them. Putting their own political agenda in the way was not the right way to approach things so yes I do indeed hope this is a lesson for Sony to learn. I feel vindicated that Sony and everyone else involved got a taste of their own medicine but it came at a cost for the fans. Do I support a movie I absolutely loathe while forcing myself to think it's fantastic in order to help generate positive feedback therefore for more movies and perhaps more Hollywood remakes to get made? Or do I just be up front and express disappointment knowing the repercussions? No I have to be honest. The idea was to make a film that was a success and was actually good. Neither happened and because of this we may not get another movie. No one won except deluded feminists who have no personal emotional stake in the franchise. Am I happy with the way things went? Am I happy we got such a disappointing, cynically made movie? No, definitely not. I have to disagree with the OP and give a dislike. The film flopping was a hollow victory for a studio that may not even learn from it's mistakes. I can't be glad the film flopped because we may never get another one at least for quite some time. I wanted a good film and one that was a success. Now in the future we may not get the chance for either. :cry:
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By EJLambert
#4884033
pferreira1983 wrote:
EJLambert wrote:You know that a lot of members on this board actually liked the movie.
However I'm one man, one individual who doesn't. :mrgreen: :

Well, DUH!
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By deadderek
#4884081
If we are going purely by the numbers, then yes the Reboot is absolutely a flop. A lot of arguments on this board over what constitutes a "good" movie (which ATC isn't), but there's no debating the numbers.

Batman & Robin is considered one of the worst movies of all time...still made better numbers (NOT adjusted for inflation either) than ATC.
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By deadderek
#4884089
Alphagaia wrote:Trouble is, people seem to think a box office flop equals a bad movie, which is most definitely not the case.
The Reboot is absolutely far from being considered a good movie overall. The general consensus leans towards it's an okay movie.
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By deadderek
#4884092
I'm referring to people outside of the fandom.

We'll see if the Reboot withstands the test of time but I strongly feel that it fade from the publics minds for the most part. It will sit with Robocop, Total Recall, and others on the Island of Misfit Reboots. (I only JUST found out that Rush Hour was made in to a tv series...wow.)

Ca$h grab reboots are popular right now and the best way to vote is with your wallet. Fortunately it seems enough of us did to make Sony take a step back and hopefully consider doing things differently going forward.
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By EJLambert
#4884093
Yet when an original, beautiful shot movie such as Kubo comes out, no one sees it. It seems that people want original movies, but when one comes out they stay home and elect to rent later. The same thing happened the weekend that Pacific Rim came out and it lost out to Grown Ups 2. It's beyond baffling. You could chalk it up to expensive movie tickets, or people having bad theater experiences.
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User avatar
By Sav C
#4884094
One thing about the Total Recall reboot is that I don't rekall any really big names in it (although I'm probably wrong,) whereas Kristin Wiig and Melissa McCarthy are huge names (and Kate McKinnon and Leslie Jones are getting more and more well known all the time.) I don't know.
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