Discuss the Ghostbusters movie that was released in 2016.
#4884118
Because one of the most vocal, most repugnant trolls was someone I used to troop with - and it's not a stretch to believe others were also actual fans.

Alpha, there's another conspiracy for your list: twitter trolls posing as fake Ghostbusters fans.
HunterCC wrote:Your post is another example of this fanbase being lumped in with the trolls.
I said "some so-called fans", and "some vile examples" - you've erroneously interpreted that to refer to the whole community, when I feel it was reasonably clear it didn't.
#4884129
Once again, no one said anything about "all the fans." Look, I don't get offended when someone insults the Westboro Baptists, just because we both happen to call ourselves Christians.

Same old silliness again and again, it's not going to make the evil movie disappear, people, lol.
Kingpin liked this
#4884136
I actually think the worst of it was fans turning against themselves. Like you couldn't have a conversation on some forums about how you didn't think Feig was funny or that the trailer looked bad without someone calling you a misogynist.

What I think actually happened is that the trailer was getting bad feedback and also there were misogynist comments. When Sony started to process the feedback they made the dumb decision to focus the pre-movie PR focusing on talking about the controversy instead of talking about how great of a Ghostbusters movie they had made.

In retrospect, this is a dumb decision on its face. Your Ghostbusters PR campaign should focus on your Ghostbusters movie and not on some controversy surrounding it.

It would be like if TFA prr-release always took the time to address the racists mad about John Boyega every time they gave an interview.
pferreira1983 liked this
#4884142
Once more, from the top: No one is saying that there weren't sexist fools out there spouting sexist crap. We know this to be true. It's true on all movies. Look what happened with The Force Awakens, people complaining about a black stormtrooper and the main hero being a female. Yet you didn't see the kind of publicity Ghostbusters got with the sexist thing. Why? Because people understood is was a small but vocal minority who were being racist/sexist idiots. It dominated the Ghostbuster reboot publicity for some reason. And yet the actual number of people spouting this crap was pathetically small(just like their penis). The black stormtrooper thing was news and then it was totally forgotten about, why? Because the cast, director and studio didn't keep bringing it up. They shut it down. Again, with the GB reboot? It was everywhere(even in the movie itself, which was odd)
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#4884146
RichardLess wrote:Once more, from the top: No one is saying that there weren't sexist fools out there spouting sexist crap. We know this to be true. It's true on all movies. Look what happened with The Force Awakens, people complaining about a black stormtrooper and the main hero being a female. Yet you didn't see the kind of publicity Ghostbusters got with the sexist thing. Why? Because people understood is was a small but vocal minority who were being racist/sexist idiots. It dominated the Ghostbuster reboot publicity for some reason. And yet the actual number of people spouting this crap was pathetically small(just like their penis). The black stormtrooper thing was news and then it was totally forgotten about, why? Because the cast, director and studio didn't keep bringing it up. They shut it down. Again, with the GB reboot? It was everywhere(even in the movie itself, which was odd)
It dominated because one of GBfans own (he got banned btw) and his new friends decided to go on a rampage by trolling Feig every day with multiple very over the top comments, which was new for Feig, and after months of doing this he finally got a reaction out Feig, where Paul told him to f*** off.

Granted, you can blame Feig for responding to him, say he should stand above this kind of behaviour, even during the very stressfull time of making a movie, but this got picked up by networks, fanbases and social media and used as the proof Feig hates all of us, and GBfans are mysoginists.

We got the newsstories like GBfans being jerks to sick children as further proof GBfans were monsters.

After this spark, the fuel came with the 'Feig think fans are assholes' piece which cemented the believe he was against all the fans. This gave the networks a follow-up story as the fanbase started to rip each other a new one over fact and fiction.

Feig explained his answers and reactions multiple times, but nope the haters had an angle and it is used to this day as proof Feig hates the fans. Because why would he otherwise start a reboot and not a sequel? They forgot how impossible it was to get a sequel, forgot how his pitch was designed to sidestep the problem with not casting the guys, as he preferred creating a new world, and still a way of keeping the original canon intact and create a possible sequel. They forgot this project was only possible after years and years of the original crew not getting it done and Feig the only one wanting to do anything with it.

Feig and co have gone record time and time again stating the mysoginists are just a tiny part of the community, but let's not forget the haters are to blame as well for going on a rampage every time a new piece of spinned news was presented.
JurorNo.2, Sav C, Kingpin and 1 others liked this
#4884149
Alphagaia wrote:
RichardLess wrote:Once more, from the top: No one is saying that there weren't sexist fools out there spouting sexist crap. We know this to be true. It's true on all movies. Look what happened with The Force Awakens, people complaining about a black stormtrooper and the main hero being a female. Yet you didn't see the kind of publicity Ghostbusters got with the sexist thing. Why? Because people understood is was a small but vocal minority who were being racist/sexist idiots. It dominated the Ghostbuster reboot publicity for some reason. And yet the actual number of people spouting this crap was pathetically small(just like their penis). The black stormtrooper thing was news and then it was totally forgotten about, why? Because the cast, director and studio didn't keep bringing it up. They shut it down. Again, with the GB reboot? It was everywhere(even in the movie itself, which was odd)
It dominated because one of GBfans own (he got banned btw) and his new friends decided to go on a rampage by trolling Feig every day with multiple very over the top comments, which was new for Feig, and after months of doing this he finally got a reaction out Feig, where Paul told him to f*** off.

Granted, you can blame Feig for responding to him, say he should stand above this kind of behaviour, even during the very stressfull time of making a movie, but this got picked up by networks, fanbases and social media and used as the proof Feig hates all of us, and GBfans are mysoginists.

We got the newsstories like GBfans being jerks to sick children as further proof GBfans were monsters.

After this spark, the fuel came with the 'Feig think fans are assholes' piece which cemented the believe he was against all the fans. This gave the networks a follow-up story as the fanbase started to rip each other a new one over fact and fiction.

Feig explained his answers and reactions multiple times, but nope the haters had an angle and it is used to this day as proof Feig hates the fans. Because why would he otherwise start a reboot and not a sequel? They forgot how impossible it was to get a sequel, forgot how his pitch was designed to sidestep the problem with not casting the guys, as he preferred creating a new world, and still a way of keeping the original canon intact and create a possible sequel. They forgot this project was only possible after years and years of the original crew not getting it done and Feig the only one wanting to do anything with it.

Feig and co have gone record time and time again stating the mysoginists are just a tiny part of the community, but let's not forget the haters are to blame as well for going on a rampage every time a new piece of spinned news was presented.
What does this have to do with my post? You gave me examples of a couple people acting like idiots. We already knew this. Then you make some weird pivot towards "haters". When did that become part of the sexist thing? I don't like the reboot, does that make me a "hater". You say haters are to blame, blame for what? The word is now in. Despite the postive RT score, most people have rejected the reboot. This is about Sony and others using the sexist crap as a way to block legit criticism of the reboot. Instead of ignoring it like Force Awakens did with the racist and sexist crap that happened with that movie, Sony used it(based on the video). It's getting annoying even giving it any credence at all. The conversation shouldn't have been about sexism, it should've been about making a good movie which is what 95% of the YouTube comments are about.


Also: Please don't act like it's unreasonable for a fan to get upset at a movie that ignores the movie they are a fan of. I hate when people pull this. I'm a bleeding heart GB fan. I've loved every iteration of Ghostbusters from the movies to Extreme Ghostbusters. Ignoring the cannon is just disrespectful, in my opinion . Rebooting a classic, after years of promises, is hard to swallow. I just can't understand how anyone can be a Ghostbusters fan and not be upset at that. I'm not saying you can't like the new movie, but how can a GBfan be ok with throwing out everything we've come to love about the franchise and starting over?

Maybe I'm just an immature nostalgic cry baby but I just don't get it. I also don't get how anyone could even find the reboot funny? I see the "Honest Trailers" take down of the reboot and think "Ok, I'm not crazy. Clearly this was a bad movie". Bad movies have received postive RT scores in the past. Anyone remember Superman Returns? Over 70 percent postive on RT but where is that movie now? It's terrible!
#4884151
You asked if Sony manufactured the controversy and you were looking for a reason why the GBreboot publicity was dominated by hatred and misogyny.
I gave you the step by step how it happened: the media lapping up a tweet between GBTroll and Feig, the article about assholes and people spinning newsitems left and right.

Also I have no problems with people getting upset when get do not get something they want.
I do have problems when they make a tantrum about it.
Again, no one is saying ALL haters are making a tantrum, and some have legit reason for the dislike. But there are still people going way overboard about this, even when they started with legit reasons for the (dis)like.
MonaLS liked this
#4884153
Kingpin wrote:Because one of the most vocal, most repugnant trolls was someone I used to troop with - and it's not a stretch to believe others were also actual fans.
Just one guy. And while you have told me previously some awful experiences you have had with other fans, have you seen the terrible youtube comments made of things that have nothing to do with Ghostbusters? We don't have a monopoly on jerks in our fanbase. Yet you are assuming they are actual GB fans.
Kingpin wrote:Alpha, there's another conspiracy for your list: twitter trolls posing as fake Ghostbusters fans.
Why do you call that a conspiracy theory? Do you think Milo Y and other trolls are actual GB fans? Do you think the people making racist or sexist comments about other movies are necessarily actual fans of those movies?

From Feig's "geek culture is full of assholes" comment, (Which he DID make in reference to uproar over the leaking of a female cast, and which IS a sweeping statement like yours below.), to Sony manipulating youtube comments, to casting comments especially McCarthy, to mass media and online crusaders starting a crusade against "man-babies", the Streisand Effect was in full force.
Kingpin wrote:I said "some so-called fans", and "some vile examples" - you've erroneously interpreted that to refer to the whole community, when I feel it was reasonably clear it didn't.
No, you did. Those "some fans" are the ones you put full blame on for the controversy. This is what you said on that:
Kingpin wrote:It was pushed into the mainstream long before Sony and/or the cast responded, it was pushed into the mainstream when some so-called fans started to sling some absolutely horrendous remarks onto the net via their twitter and youtube accounts (some of whom were the same ones who said similarly horrendous things about those children in the hospital in Boston).
You absolutely put the blame for the controversy on those "some fans", and tried to exonerate Sony and the cast in the process. Your error isn't in calling all GB fans trolls, which you didn't. Your error is calling all those trolls as GB fans, and handwaving away the trolling back that was done.
Kingpin wrote:Did Sony take advantage of the furore? I can't say 'no', they probably did to a degree, but it was some vile examples of humanity who also happened to be Ghostbusters fans who started this particular ball rolling.
The ball got rolling when Feig, the cast, and Sony gave the trolls what they wanted. Attention that they didn't get from calling Rey and Furiosa Mary Sues, or talked of boycotting Fury Road for being Feminist Road. It helped that Force Awakens and Fury Road were really good, but also you didn't hear of the cast and production companies of those movies respond like the GB crew and their supporters did. The ball never got rolling there, to where controversy dominated the discussion of those movies.
Last edited by HunterCC on October 24th, 2016, 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
#4884154
Alphagaia wrote:You asked if Sony manufactured the controversy and you were looking for a reason why the GBreboot publicity was dominated by hatred and misogyny.
I gave you the step by step how it happened: the media lapping up a tweet between GBTroll and Feig, the article about assholes and people spinning newsitems left and right.

Also I have no problems with people getting upset when get do not get something they want.
I do have problems when they make a tantrum about it.
Again, no one is saying ALL haters are making a tantrum, and some have legit reason for the dislike. But there are still people going way overboard about this, even when they started with legit reasons for the (dis)like.
Lol that's not what I was asking at all. I know all about that. I was asking why did it strike such a cord with ghostbusters and not with Star Wars which had racism AND sexism.
Hairy Biker liked this
#4884155
Maybe I should clarify some more: it's a mixture of what I already said, combined with a leak, people already waiting for 25+ years, and a trailer that was not well received. Star Wars had neither of that and the above, which meant Star Wars fans had a lot to already look at and play with, while GB became a boiling point of pressure.
#4884161
Alphagaia wrote:Maybe I should clarify some more: it's a mixture of what I already said, combined with a leak, people already waiting for 25+ years, and a trailer that was not well received. Star Wars had neither of that and the above, which meant Star Wars fans had a lot to already look at and play with, while GB became a boiling point of pressure.
Oh wait. You didn't understand that my post was asking rhetorical questions. Gotcha. Now it's making sense. Yeah when I ask a question, and then answer it the following sentence, I'm being rhetorical. Just a heads up good sir. But I guess you're just giving your opinion anyways. Ah well.

(Pretty sure Star Wars fans had to wait longer though. ROTJ came out in '83. I don't think anyone counts the prequels).

So you think the reason Ghostbusters got more of the sexism publicity is due to the Sony leaks, a couple of idiots, and, uh, marketing? People were sexist because of a bad trailer? Hmmm. Not sure I buy that. So you don't think it has anything to do with the actors and filmmakers mentioning it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over? And over and over and over and over and over some more everytime a microphone was stuck in their face?

It's just weird, I don't know. Here we have a small, teeny tiny group of people doing stupid crap and it dominates the conversation. I guess it could be worse. We could be King Kong fans. You know who was a big King Kong fan? Hitler. It's true. If Hitler was alive today you know what the headline would be? "King Kong Fan Declares War on Britain!" "King Kong Fan invades France!"
Hairy Biker liked this
#4884163
Dude relax.I just gave you another possible reason what could also fan the flames and why the build up to dismaid Star Warsfans and GBfans was different.
When you answer your own question everyone is perfectly allowed to present a different answer.

Also, If you count the prequels or not, there was also a very popular cartoon series, toys and games that kept the Star Wars people happy. Last cartoon GB had was Extreme, and games and toys were far and few apart and only added to the pressure of wanting a sequel.

Long story short: it was in a very different state.
Sav C liked this
#4884164
HunterCC wrote:We don't have a monopoly on jerks in our fanbase. Yet you are assuming they are actual GB fans.
We don't have the monopoly, but we do have them, and I don't think it's all that unreasonable an assumption to make that some of the trolls are also Ghostbusters fans.
HunterCC wrote:Why do you call that a conspiracy theory?


I believe it's conspiracy-theory territory because what you're proposing just seems more outlandish than what Occam's Razor would argue: the simplest explanation being the most likely one, that some of the trolls are Proton Pack-wearing, jumpsuit-donning disgruntled Ghostbusters fans.
HunterCC wrote:Do you think Milo Y and other trolls are actual GB fans? Do you think the people making racist or sexist comments about other movies are necessarily actual fans of those movies?
Maybe not all of them, but to reiterate an earlier sentiment, how do you know they aren't?
HunterCC wrote:You absolutely put the blame for the controversy on those "some fans", and tried to exonerate Sony and the cast in the process. Your error isn't in calling all GB fans trolls, which you didn't.
Exonerating Sony admittedly wasn't intentional, but having been bullied when I was younger, it's left me less inclined to criticise Feig, McCarthy, Jones for responding to being attacked, and have responded to being attacked, and less inclined to sympathise with those trolls who felt their actions were justified.

And in a bit of devil's advocacy, as stung as some people were by what Feig, McCarthy and Jones said, the individuals insulted by what they said frankly got off easy when compared to the bile and vitriolic abuse that was sent to the director and actresses on a daily basis from multiple sources over the span of several months (most notably from that aforementioned "fan" who used to be in the same group as me.

You can spin it any way you like, but anti-reboot/feig trolls dealt the first bloody blow. I believe they deserve to carry a good, if not larger portion of the blame for helping to drag out community into the gutter - and I also feel there are some people here who understate, ignore, or deliberately gloss over the negative actions of their fellow fans.
Alphagaia, Sav C, devilmanozzy and 2 others liked this
#4884210
Lol, this is why I go on the Internet, to discuss who should feel more guilty over a Hollywood movie.

Is there a point to movies and fandoms anymore beyond being miserable and making sure everyone else is too? I think it's time for another break. Ironic that not discussing movies somehow became less stressful, lol.
Hairy Biker liked this
#4884212
Alphagaia wrote:Dude relax.I just gave you another possible reason what could also fan the flames and why the build up to dismaid Star Warsfans and GBfans was different.
When you answer your own question everyone is perfectly allowed to present a different answer.

Also, If you count the prequels or not, there was also a very popular cartoon series, toys and games that kept the Star Wars people happy. Last cartoon GB had was Extreme, and games and toys were far and few apart and only added to the pressure of wanting a sequel.

Long story short: it was in a very different state.
Dude. Relax. I'm just screwing with you. Don't be so uptight. It's not good for the heart. For a Ghostbusters forum this place has a lot of very serious people.

Just breathe.
#4884226
Kingpin wrote:
RichardLess wrote:Dude. Relax. I'm just screwing with you.
Maybe you should do that less often.
Lol Everyone's a critic.

Yeah it's true. I wouldn't want break the deadly serious tone round these parts.

(Cricket sounds)

I'm wondering, has anyone encountered a moderator that doesn't like the reboot on this site? I don't think I have. I could be mistaken but it seems they are all fans. Anyone know of one that didn't enjoy Pixels 2, err, I mean Ghostbusters ATC? Granted I only see Kingpin and one other Mod round here(whose name escapes me) so I guess that's hardly a consensus(I'm not even sure how many mod there are on here?).

What did you think of the reboot Kingpin? If you liked it, what didn't you like about it? If you had the chance to see Ghostbusters 3 or Ghostbusters ATC 2, which would you take?(let's assume Murray is involved in GB3).

Watching the reboot again the thing that keeps nagging at me is the blandness of it all. Generic score, set design and cinematography. The CGI is low quality, the editing is wonky. On a pure technical sense I find it to be a very poor expierence considering the talent behind the camera on the other two movies. I'm not trying to be a jerk by just slamming the movie over and over but beyond the script, acting and humour, the movie doesn't have a soul. A beating heart. It's just...there. Which is a problem I'm finding with more and more films these days.
Hairy Biker liked this
#4884227
Problem is, what you view as just screwing with people and doing something about the serious tone, you just use to suggest the mods are biased while also taking multiple stabs at the movie. That's not lighting the mood that's just starting to look like trolling to get a rise out of people. Which is something you yourself did not want this thread to boil down to. Why start it?

Kingpin did write a review with what he liked and disliked though: so if you are interested:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=41738
#4884228
Alphagaia wrote:Problem is, what you view as just screwing with people and doing something about the serious tone, you just use to suggest the mods are biased while also taking multiple stabs at the movie. That's not lighting the mood that's just starting to look like trolling to get a rise out of people.

Kingpin did write a review with what he liked and disliked though: so if you are interested:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=41738
What's your problem man? How is that suggesting there is a bias? I was legit wondering and specifically said there were only two mods opinions that, as far as I know, we're both pro reboot. So two opinions equals bias!?!. I think Kingpin can speak for his/her self. I went on to ask specific questions. I can't be curious without you accusing me of crap? I seriously doubt there would be some mod conspiracy that they all must like the movie. It was a legit question that I was seriously asking out of curiosity.
Multiple stabs at the movie? You need to chill. Besides making a joke and calling it Pixels 2, I mentioned technical issues I had. Why is that a problem? How is that "a stab"? Call it what it is, a criticism.

I don't care for the holier than thou tone when I give my opinion on the movie or ask someone a question. I was just messing around with you on one post and it reads pretty clearly. Or did the multiple "on and on's" and the King Kong hitler thing go over your head?

Lighten up.
#4884230
I think I responded to the serious parts of your post and not to the jokes? Not sure why you think those jokes went over my head just because I did not respond to them?

I see the various technical issues you mention as stabs because I don't have a problem with most of the effects (like the style or not, they are well done imo) or the editing, and apart from the fallout song I really liked the music, especially Get Ghost, the Time Square Battle and the Aldridge theme.
#4884231
Alphagaia wrote:I think I responded to the serious parts of your post and not to the jokes? Not sure why you think those jokes went over my head just because I did not respond to them?

I see the various technical issues you mention as stabs because I don't have a problem with most of the effects (like the style or not, they are well done imo) or the editing, and apart from the fallout song I really liked the music, especially Get Ghost, the Time Square Battle and the Aldridge theme.
So I'm taking stabs at a movie because you disagree with my opinion? That's wonderful logic. "I don't have a problem with most of the effects". Yeah that's some high praise. The final battle is just a mess. It looks cheap. Look at what's possible in today's movies! Gollum, Davy Jones, N'avi, transforming robots. This looks like it was made circa 2002. My main issue is the proton beam. I swear to god they look better in the original. They do. Here it looks like a fan film.
#4884233
RichardLess wrote:
Alphagaia wrote:I think I responded to the serious parts of your post and not to the jokes? Not sure why you think those jokes went over my head just because I did not respond to them?

I see the various technical issues you mention as stabs because I don't have a problem with most of the effects (like the style or not, they are well done imo) or the editing, and apart from the fallout song I really liked the music, especially Get Ghost, the Time Square Battle and the Aldridge theme.
So I'm taking stabs at a movie because you disagree with my opinion? That's wonderful logic. "I don't have a problem with most of the effects". Yeah that's some high praise. The final battle is just a mess. It looks cheap. Look at what's possible in today's movies! Gollum, Davy Jones, N'avi, transforming robots. This looks like it was made circa 2002. My main issue is the proton beam. I swear to god they look better in the original. They do. Here it looks like a fan film.
I see it as taking stabs because you consider the effects low quality when on a pure technical sense they are not. When an opinion just becomes a variation of very poor this and that, or how protonbeams look like a fanfilm, I see it definitely as stabs and hoping to get a rise. Opinions can be worded that way, either deliberately or not.

I'm a special effect lover and we have a whole thread dedicated to them here, which is where I praised some of the effects, I loved the Aldridge ghost and the balloons, and tackled a few for being obvious last minute shoe horns, like the portal or the Hotel reforming, so I think its best to continue that debate over there.

Frankly, this part of the debate feels like a rerun of things already said a thousands times, back and forth, and is not even a sidetrack of the original starting point of this thread. I think we can skip it. Let's keep it on the controversy. And keep it civil.
Sav C liked this
#4884238
Kingpin wrote:We don't have the monopoly, but we do have them, and I don't think it's all that unreasonable an assumption to make that some of the trolls are also Ghostbusters fans.
Some, yeah. I just think generalizations that all the trolls, critcal or supporting, on this came from this fanbase are unfair.
Kingpin wrote:I believe it's conspiracy-theory territory because what you're proposing just seems more outlandish than what Occam's Razor would argue: the simplest explanation being the most likely one, that some of the trolls are Proton Pack-wearing, jumpsuit-donning disgruntled Ghostbusters fans. Just some, not all, is what I'm asserting.
Some, just not all. Agreed.
Kingpin wrote:Maybe not all of them, but to reiterate an earlier sentiment, how do you know they aren't?
I don't think there are enough GB fans to do all the stuff trolls did, once the flamewars started between GB16 supporters and critics. On youtube, twitter, etc.
Kingpin wrote:Exonerating Sony admittedly wasn't intentional, but having been bullied when I was younger, it's left me less inclined to criticise Feig, McCarthy, Jones for responding to being attacked, and have responded to being attacked, and less inclined to sympathise with those trolls who felt their actions were justified.

And in a bit of devil's advocacy, as stung as some people were by what Feig, McCarthy and Jones said, the individuals insulted by what they said frankly got off easy when compared to the bile and vitriolic abuse that was sent to the director and actresses on a daily basis from multiple sources over the span of several months (most notably from that aforementioned "fan" who used to be in the same group as me.

You can spin it any way you like, but anti-reboot/feig trolls dealt the first bloody blow. I believe they deserve to carry a good, if not larger portion of the blame for helping to drag out community into the gutter - and I also feel there are some people here who understate, ignore, or deliberately gloss over the negative actions of their fellow fans.
I just dont think all the anti-gb16 trolls were actually GB fans, And for example, give Rolfes and Roepers situation, there was bullying online in support of GB16 by supposedly journalistic and other opinion based media, not just online trolls.

And again, trolls attacked Force Awakens and Fury Road. Yet this sh*tstorm didn't happen to those franchises. And there really isn't anything revolutionary about GB16 casting, not since shows like Buffy back in the 90s. Other than the gender swap being the entire main cast AFAIK. I think the trolls were the same, how the GB16 makers and supporters handled it was different.
#4884267
RichardLess wrote:I'm wondering, has anyone encountered a moderator that doesn't like the reboot on this site? I don't think I have. I could be mistaken but it seems they are all fans. Anyone know of one that didn't enjoy Pixels 2, err, I mean Ghostbusters ATC? Granted I only see Kingpin and one other Mod round here(whose name escapes me) so I guess that's hardly a consensus(I'm not even sure how many mod there are on here?).
There are two standard Moderators (one's me), two Global Moderators, a Deputy Admin and AJ, the Admin, I've not had any recent conversation with one of the Global Mods, so I don't know his feelings on the reboot.
RichardLess wrote:What's your problem man? How is that suggesting there is a bias?
I can see the angle Alpha's coming from because I initially took home the same interpretation. The comment about all the mods appearing to like it could've been interpreted as suggesting we'd all been bought off by Sony - which is something that's been suggested by other members of the forum, or that we could've all had the same poor taste - which has also been suggested by some on the forum.
RichardLess wrote:What did you think of the reboot Kingpin? If you liked it, what didn't you like about it? If you had the chance to see Ghostbusters 3 or Ghostbusters ATC 2, which would you take?(let's assume Murray is involved in GB3).
The official review the forum posted in July pretty much details what I thought of it, though here's a quick summary:

Fun but flawed, I liked most (though not all) of the character interplay and comedy - though Holtzmann was my clear favourite, I liked the car and equipment, I dug the battle/busting visuals and the ghost effects. Rowan was left lacking for greater character development, and some of the supporting cast of characters could've been a lot better - the Mayor and his aide to name the main ones. It'll never be as good as the original, but I think while flawed, it had/has potential.

I'm honestly not sure if I'd want to see Ghostbusters 3 (even with Murray involved), while it'd be nice to have three of the four original busters back in gear, something I've mentioned before that I'm not too keen on is seeing them past their prime, and not really able to bust ghosts anymore. If it'd happened 10, 15, 20 years ago, then sure, I'd have been game for it, but nowadays? I'm... content with leaving the classic franchise where it is... "untarnished", you could say. I suppose maybe I'm worried that "Ghostbusters 3" could end up like Independence Day: Resurgence.

I enjoyed ATC enough that I'd be happy enough to give a sequel a try (where they hopefully build on the good aspects of the first one, and improve on the bits that were critiqued), and it looks like a sequel is something Sony is still considering.

We'll have to disagree on feeling that the set and score were bland. While Shapiro's score didn't have as many memorable tracks as Bernstein's, I thought there was plenty of material there that could be expanded on (the opening track introducing the Aldridge Mansion, the battle of Times Square, the closing of the portal were some that stood out to me) - on a scale it was maybe a B- or a C+, and I've heard some solid Ds or Es in some other, more successful summer tent-poles recently.

As for the sets, while the lobby of the Mercado obviously doesn't compare to Gozer's temple, the Firehouse and the Chinese Restaurant were no less drab than the '84 Firehouse, or lab at Weaver Hall.

About the only CGI that I felt was on the lower-quality side of the spectrum were the daytime shots of the Mercado, and some of the instances where they'd had CG Proton Packs replacing the low-detail stunt ones.
RichardLess wrote:This looks like it was made circa 2002.
I don't know, I think there's at least a few films from 2002 where the effects in ATC look more convincing. :)
#4884308
Kingpin wrote:
RichardLess wrote:I'm wondering, has anyone encountered a moderator that doesn't like the reboot on this site? I don't think I have. I could be mistaken but it seems they are all fans. Anyone know of one that didn't enjoy Pixels 2, err, I mean Ghostbusters ATC? Granted I only see Kingpin and one other Mod round here(whose name escapes me) so I guess that's hardly a consensus(I'm not even sure how many mod there are on here?).
There are two standard Moderators (one's me), two Global Moderators, a Deputy Admin and AJ, the Admin, I've not had any recent conversation with one of the Global Mods, so I don't know his feelings on the reboot.
RichardLess wrote:What's your problem man? How is that suggesting there is a bias?
I can see the angle Alpha's coming from because I initially took home the same interpretation. The comment about all the mods appearing to like it could've been interpreted as suggesting we'd all been bought off by Sony - which is something that's been suggested by other members of the forum, or that we could've all had the same poor taste - which has also been suggested by some on the forum.
RichardLess wrote:What did you think of the reboot Kingpin? If you liked it, what didn't you like about it? If you had the chance to see Ghostbusters 3 or Ghostbusters ATC 2, which would you take?(let's assume Murray is involved in GB3).
The official review the forum posted in July pretty much details what I thought of it, though here's a quick summary:

Fun but flawed, I liked most (though not all) of the character interplay and comedy - though Holtzmann was my clear favourite, I liked the car and equipment, I dug the battle/busting visuals and the ghost effects. Rowan was left lacking for greater character development, and some of the supporting cast of characters could've been a lot better - the Mayor and his aide to name the main ones. It'll never be as good as the original, but I think while flawed, it had/has potential.

I'm honestly not sure if I'd want to see Ghostbusters 3 (even with Murray involved), while it'd be nice to have three of the four original busters back in gear, something I've mentioned before that I'm not too keen on is seeing them past their prime, and not really able to bust ghosts anymore. If it'd happened 10, 15, 20 years ago, then sure, I'd have been game for it, but nowadays? I'm... content with leaving the classic franchise where it is... "untarnished", you could say. I suppose maybe I'm worried that "Ghostbusters 3" could end up like Independence Day: Resurgence.

I enjoyed ATC enough that I'd be happy enough to give a sequel a try (where they hopefully build on the good aspects of the first one, and improve on the bits that were critiqued), and it looks like a sequel is something Sony is still considering.

We'll have to disagree on feeling that the set and score were bland. While Shapiro's score didn't have as many memorable tracks as Bernstein's, I thought there was plenty of material there that could be expanded on (the opening track introducing the Aldridge Mansion, the battle of Times Square, the closing of the portal were some that stood out to me) - on a scale it was maybe a B- or a C+, and I've heard some solid Ds or Es in some other, more successful summer tent-poles recently.

As for the sets, while the lobby of the Mercado obviously doesn't compare to Gozer's temple, the Firehouse and the Chinese Restaurant were no less drab than the '84 Firehouse, or lab at Weaver Hall.

About the only CGI that I felt was on the lower-quality side of the spectrum were the daytime shots of the Mercado, and some of the instances where they'd had CG Proton Packs replacing the low-detail stunt ones.
RichardLess wrote:This looks like it was made circa 2002.
I don't know, I think there's at least a few films from 2002 where the effects in ATC look more convincing. :)
Yeah no I swear there was no suggestion that you or anyone else were bought off or anything like that. I was just generally curious. i even mentioned that two opinions aren't a consensus so when rereading that I don't see how anyone could get that interpretation. Granted I wasn't privy to any of this "bought off by Sony" accusations. Some people are ridiculous. Yeah a multi billion dollar corporation is going to buy off the opinions of fan site moderators. I guess that last sentence could seem a bit ironic given the subject matter of this thread but still, that's just silly.

Oh and Alpha, I am also a special effects lover. That's why the effects really bother me. I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone. I also don't want to confuse anyone: I'm not talking about design, I am talking about execution. I think the problem was using Sony Imageworks rather than ILM. Obviously Sony has a vested interest in using their own VFX company but I usually find their work to be lacking. Plus Sony uses ILM on the MiB franchise and the latest Spiderman movie will be using ILM. WETA and ILM are the cream of the crop. Anyways, the finale felt like a mess of green screen compositing. You can tell from a design stand point that they weren't really going for a "realism" approach. I agree with what's been said about the Real Ghostbusters influence of the ghost design. That may work for a cartoon but for a live action movie? The Scoleri Bros felt more tactile and real than anything in this movie. In fact that whole court room sequence from number 2 is still my favourite Ghostbusting sequence. The look of the beams? The lasso effect when they make contact with the ghosts? Love that. When I say the proton beam looks like fan film work that's not that bad of a dig. There are some great proton effects in fan films, it's a relatively easy effect to achieve.

I thought about it and here's the thing: if GB:ATC was the first ever Ghostbusters movie the proton beam effects might not bother me as much. There's just something on a aesthetic level that bugs me and I've figured it out: they look too clean. What do I mean by that? Even if a GB 3 had been made I'd still probably have an issue with the beam effect. To my eyes, it looks better as a rotoscope effect rather than an all digital one. I have the same issue with new Simpsons episodes compared to the classic ones. The animation is too clean. Back in the day it was all hand drawn and now it's all done on computers(especially the colours). It's too bright and neat. There's something to be said for the imperfections that come with things done by hand. Now for the most part? I'm a fan of CGI when it's used right. But with Ghostbusters I love the aesthetic of the photo chemical, optical printed work rather than all digital. When GB3 was in pre production it's something I worried about: would the ghosts look as "real". Like I can reach out and touch em. With digital, or rather I should say, with the digital work done in the reboot(because it is possible to achieve realism with cgi) nothing feels real, ya know? I don't feel like I could reach out and touch the concert dragon ghost thing. Had GB: ATC been the first ever GB film, I'd have nothing to compare it to so the effects might not get to me as much.

That's how I feel anyways.
#4884581
While I still don't agree on your point, the way you worded you opinion here is much more civil and in-depth then just calling it poor CGI and fanbase can do proton streams better, as your first post about the effects (along with the other technical level stuff) just came across as another simple bash without an explanation, especially giving the ridiculing tone of your previous posts.

Thx for at least clarifying, though I really think your post needs to be moved to the effects thread for clarity and to prevent further derailment of the topic at hand?
Sav C liked this
#4884632
Alphagaia wrote:It's very odd how quick people forget and just blame Sony instead.
Why wouldn't they? They made the decision to do with Ghostbusters what they did, they should take responsibility not for the trolling obviously but for how they they mishandled everything from start to finish. Ironically the one person who started this whole mess didn't stick around to face the blame, she went to Marvel.
JurorNo.2 wrote:
I'm telling you, it's the legacy of the Star Wars prequels. Fans nowadays are more likely to trust fellow fans than creators. As much as I enjoy those Plinkett reviews, I think fandoms have started adopting that attitude for all franchises that don't do exactly as they say.
Plinkett's recent article on the whole Disney Star Wars thing basically is saying Disney have messed up the franchise more than Lucas ever did. From what I watched that's how I took it.
LandoSystem wrote:Here's another pretty good video by one of those "wemmen" things that us Ghostbusters fans hate.
I don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, also not really a big fan of her channel but she's totally right here.
Alphagaia wrote:
They forgot how impossible it was to get a sequel, forgot how his pitch was designed to sidestep the problem with not casting the guys, as he preferred creating a new world, and still a way of keeping the original canon intact and create a possible sequel. They forgot this project was only possible after years and years of the original crew not getting it done and Feig the only one wanting to do anything with it.
If you believe a word he says. Feig only wanted t create a new world because firstly he had trouble wrapping his head around GB II and secondly he needed an excuse to have an all female team without people asking questions. He never once made an effort to make a sequel. He never even wanted to do the film but was persuaded to under the condition it had an all female cast. Everything you saying is just stuff regurgitated from interviews with him. I mean this is the same guy who recently said he had no knowledge of kids growing up with the original movie even though he snuke at least one reference from the cartoon series in the new movie.
Alphagaia wrote:Maybe I should clarify some more: it's a mixture of what I already said, combined with a leak, people already waiting for 25+ years, and a trailer that was not well received. Star Wars had neither of that and the above, which meant Star Wars fans had a lot to already look at and play with, while GB became a boiling point of pressure.
It became a boiling point because the fans have waited years for a movie comeback and instead Sony give us an agenda based reboot/remake that plunders from the original in some of the most generic ways. You got to understand everyone is fed up with remakes and this was the last straw.
#4884646
pferreira1983 wrote:Plinkett's recent article on the whole Disney Star Wars thing basically is saying Disney have messed up the franchise more than Lucas ever did. From what I watched that's how I took it.
That's a reach. For it's flaws, Disney and Abrams made something that was more enjoyable, more authentically Star Wars than any of the movies from the prequel trilogy.
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