Discuss all things Ghostbusters here, unless they would be better suited in one of the few forums below.
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By mrmichaelt
#4898465
My opinion is the first movie was about belief. The tagline was even "We're ready to believe you." I always thought Ghostbusters embedded in me the idea that the unknown loses its omnipotence when people face it together. In terms of character arcs - Ray and Egon were the static characters. They already believed before the movie even started. Peter and Winston were the dynamic characters. They were non-believers at the start of the movie. The dean said it all, Peter was using parapsychology to hustle. But once he sees that Library ghost... then with Winston, he just needed job. Then he busts some ghosts and saw some shit that turns you white. So by the end of the movie, four believers banding together to face and conquer the unknown, what is the mythological end of the world.

And I also think it works in the greater context of when it came out, the movie was a commentary on the early 80s. Confidence was shattered by Vietnam and Watergate in the late 70s, international affairs ramping up like the Iran hostage crisis -- Carter even had that famous "crisis of confidence speech" in 1979. A 'New York' movie of that time was "Taxi Driver" - a loner who obsesses over how terrible things have gotten so he tries in his own flawed way to make the world a better place. Then movies like Ghostbusters come around and change that zeitgeist - restoring hope, restoring belief. The capstone being Winston proclaiming, "I Love This Town!"
By BatDan
#4898466
RichardLess wrote:
Sav C wrote:I have a feeling he was just trying to charm her, but maybe I'm wrong. He does try to write her off as a "piece of meat" in the holding cell, but perhaps the situation was too far out for that to mean anything. I think the possibility is certainly there for the arc; I'd say he does arc but it is a fine line I suppose.

It seems a little quick for him to fall madly in love, but I really don't have enough experience with dating and whatnot to really make an accurate comment on that. The only time I've told a girl I love her was through Facebook messenger. I woke up the next morning, and seeing she hadn't read it yet I got anxious and asked her not to read it. Of course when you ask someone not to do something, they always do it anyway, luckily in my case she responded well to it. Still, judging from that I'm pretty pathetic. Either that or just meant for a simpler time, but honestly I do think I'm pathetic none the less. Oh well. Should never of asked her not to read it, and really should of told her face to face. With that said we haven't had any private face to face moments in a year. There are always other people around, so at very least by writing to her I didn't put her on the spot in front of her friends.


Guess what Sav? That's not pathetic at all. You only live once so if you truly love someone, express that love. If they don't say it back, yes it hurts and yes you feel like a fool, but you are following your heart and that's always a wise choice, you can't control how you feel and you never know what the other person is feeling until you make the first move. If you keep love bottled up inside, you'll burst. Maybe telling her to her face might've been the better choice but it could have made her feel awkward and resulted in something you'd come to regret. What I can guarantee is later on in life you'll look back on this moment and laugh to yourself. Or cringe. Or both. It's all apart of living.
Cherish your time as a teenager, they will most likely be the best years of your life. I know every adult says that and it's cliche, even I thought it was clichè as a teenager, but once you hit a certain age time just goes by so quickly you'll yearn for those carefree days when your entire life was ahead of you. Enjoy it. Like all good things, it wasn't meant to last.


These words are awesome, Richard. Off topic, but awesome. As GB fans it does hit home, as we are all nostalgia-addicts, hoping to recapture the magic of donning a Kenner pack. We took those times for granted in a way. It is a cliche, but it's one of those cliches that makes alot of sense, once you're old enough to understand it.

Sav c, hang in there. In the mean time, listen to some nerdy punk rock like Descendents and early Elvis Costello. It got me through those awkward teenage times of unrequited crushes, best thing to do is not harp on it too much, and just look at the next opportunity. If you spend too much time on a girl that isn't digging you, you may be missing out on a girl that will. Most of the time, those are the girls that just like the attention, don't give it to them, ya get addicted into a trap. Don't feel pathetic, you're in good company.
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By Sav C
#4898471
Thanks, BatDan. She does like me, but she has a boyfriend. Obviously I don't want them to separate or anything since they seem happy, but I did want her to know how I feel about her.
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By Doctor Venkman
#4898499
RichardLess wrote:Really? You don't see the thing that has a bell icon on it? Everytime someone likes/dislikes a post it shows up, telling me who and when. Anyone else want to chime in here or am I somehow the only one that has this function?(perhaps you've turned the settings off somehow)

Let me be clear: this is an opinion thread. No ones opinion can be wrong. I can disagree with that opinion but that doesn't make you wrong. We aren't dealing in fact here. Is that open minded enough for you? I am not the final judge and jury here. I just created the thread. I can disagree and say why I disagree, but that doesn't mean you are wrong.
When did I shut down this discussion? I called you out for making this personal by disliking every comment of mine, even ones off topic. You disliked my awesome Noah the ark joke. That hurt :( but your constant dislikes are weird and unusual. I've had disagreements with many people here, including Juror and Alpha and others. I don't think they've been quite as obsessed as you with the whole disliking thing but I guess too each their own? I don't know if I would say you are abusing the dislike button but when you've made your points known and disliked a few of the persons comments, it's time to relax. Personally I'm not one to use the dislike button anyways. I'd rather my words do the talking. Oh sure I've used it in extreme cases but usually those are trolls and the like.

So just to recap, your opinions are your opinions. I think I've shown why I disagree with them, at least to my own satisfaction. I love debate and discussion but you've gotten it mixed up somewhere that I don't. It's when things get personal, or seem to get personal, that I don't care for.


Nope, I must have turned that setting off and didn't remember it was even a thing.

Again, wasn't obsessed... don't get what you don't understand about it. You throw out terms like "abusing" and "constant dislikes"... The button is there, and I'm using it when I dislike what is being said (among everyone's posts, not just yourself). The arc joke seemed like lame backtracking to me when faced with plenty of evidence of an arc for Venkman, hence the dislike. You simply don't seem to understand the point of the button and think that someone should only use it to your oddball standards. Everyone in this thread is using likes and dislikes, so you feeling like I'm obsessed or whatever is weird. But hey, I just gave you some likes, rather than dislikes, so maybe now you'll like me and stop taking it personally, lol.

In any case, yes, it's an opinion thread (although yes, opinions can be wrong). Hopefully, the discussion actually proves productive and not repetitive.
Last edited by Doctor Venkman on September 20th, 2017, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Doctor Venkman
#4898500
Sav C wrote:I have a feeling he was just trying to charm her, but maybe I'm wrong. He does try to write her off as a "piece of meat" in the holding cell, but perhaps the situation was too far out for that to mean anything. I think the possibility is certainly there for the arc; I'd say he does arc but it is a fine line I suppose.


I actually get the vibe there that Venkman has truly fallen for her and in the cell he's trying to convince others (and himself) that he's not, due to the developing situation. That whole scene plays out to me like he's lying and being sarcastic throughout his explanation about "she's not my girlfriend."
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By RichardLess
#4898502
Doctor Venkman wrote:
RichardLess wrote:Really? You don't see the thing that has a bell icon on it? Everytime someone likes/dislikes a post it shows up, telling me who and when. Anyone else want to chime in here or am I somehow the only one that has this function?(perhaps you've turned the settings off somehow)

Let me be clear: this is an opinion thread. No ones opinion can be wrong. I can disagree with that opinion but that doesn't make you wrong. We aren't dealing in fact here. Is that open minded enough for you? I am not the final judge and jury here. I just created the thread. I can disagree and say why I disagree, but that doesn't mean you are wrong.
When did I shut down this discussion? I called you out for making this personal by disliking every comment of mine, even ones off topic. You disliked my awesome Noah the ark joke. That hurt :( but your constant dislikes are weird and unusual. I've had disagreements with many people here, including Juror and Alpha and others. I don't think they've been quite as obsessed as you with the whole disliking thing but I guess too each their own? I don't know if I would say you are abusing the dislike button but when you've made your points known and disliked a few of the persons comments, it's time to relax. Personally I'm not one to use the dislike button anyways. I'd rather my words do the talking. Oh sure I've used it in extreme cases but usually those are trolls and the like.

So just to recap, your opinions are your opinions. I think I've shown why I disagree with them, at least to my own satisfaction. I love debate and discussion but you've gotten it mixed up somewhere that I don't. It's when things get personal, or seem to get personal, that I don't care for.


Nope, I must have turned that setting off and didn't remember it was even a thing.

Again, wasn't obsessed... don't get what you don't understand about it. You throw out terms like "abusing" and "constant dislikes"... The button is there, and I'm using it when I dislike what is being said (the arc joke seemed like lame backtracking to me when faced with plenty of evidence of an arc for Venkman, hence the dislike). You simply don't seem to understand the point of the button and think that someone should only use it to your oddball standards. Everyone in this thread is using likes and dislikes, so you feeling like I'm obsessed or whatever is weird. But hey, I just gave you some likes, rather than dislikes, so maybe now you'll like me and stop taking it personally, lol.

In any case, yes, it's an opinion thread (although yes, opinions can be wrong). Hopefully, the discussion actually proves productive and not repetitive.



I think what you and I are failing to understand here is literally no one else is using the dislike button as you do. No one. Make of that what you will. If that's how you express yourself than my apologies, I didnt mean to make u feel like it wasn't proper. It's just not what I'm use to.

All that being said, this is just a conversation. I've had plenty of pleasant interactions with you before(I think. Pretty sure). I can't dislike anyone who is a fan of Ghostbusters. It's not in me. Let's shake internet hands and move on, if you like?

Edit: fixed "did" to "didn't"
Last edited by RichardLess on September 20th, 2017, 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Doctor Venkman
#4898512
RichardLess wrote:All that being said, this is just a conversation. I've had plenty of pleasant interactions with you before(I think. Pretty sure). I can't dislike anyone who is a fan of Ghostbusters. It's not in me. Let's shake internet hands and move on, if you like?


All I ever did was dislike the posts, not you, my friend. So I will absolutely agree to that.
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By Sav C
#4898521
Doctor Venkman wrote:
Sav C wrote:I have a feeling he was just trying to charm her, but maybe I'm wrong. He does try to write her off as a "piece of meat" in the holding cell, but perhaps the situation was too far out for that to mean anything. I think the possibility is certainly there for the arc; I'd say he does arc but it is a fine line I suppose.


I actually get the vibe there that Venkman has truly fallen for her and in the cell he's trying to convince others (and himself) that he's not, due to the developing situation. That whole scene plays out to me like he's lying and being sarcastic throughout his explanation about "she's not my girlfriend."

Good point, come to think of it that's also the impression I get from that scene.
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By JurorNo.2
#4898526
Doctor Venkman wrote:
Sav C wrote:I have a feeling he was just trying to charm her, but maybe I'm wrong. He does try to write her off as a "piece of meat" in the holding cell, but perhaps the situation was too far out for that to mean anything. I think the possibility is certainly there for the arc; I'd say he does arc but it is a fine line I suppose.


I actually get the vibe there that Venkman has truly fallen for her and in the cell he's trying to convince others (and himself) that he's not, due to the developing situation. That whole scene plays out to me like he's lying and being sarcastic throughout his explanation about "she's not my girlfriend."


Definitely, yeah, and Egon reassures him (and us) that we're not giving up on Dana.
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By Alphagaia
#4900623
I agree with RichardLess that the movie has no real arcs. While you could argue Venkman changes from womaniser to sincerely in love, there is not much proof for it. The movie ends on them kissing, but we don't know if it's a lasting relationship, or that thing that happens when people experience mutual hardships and 'bond', or Venkman just getting what he wants before getting bored of it. We don't even know if he has ever gotten a girl, just that he has weird moves whenever he sees an attractive one, hehe.

But let's assume he actually is changed. Is this arc pivatol to the story, what the movie really is about?

I don't think it's about believe either. ATC is, but ghost are rampant enough that their business thrives without much real trouble. Ofcourse there are plotpoints, and the movie is great,but there are no arcs or lessons to be learned. Apart that this movie proves it does not need those to be excellent, ofcourse.
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By *NormalGamer*
#4900638
CPU64 wrote:I always thought it was a movie about ghosts...


This is pretty much how I 'always' saw it; it's the core of what Ghostbusters is really about. It's the characters, regardless of what background they have (race, ethnicity, gender, etc.) in addition to it's lore, that help flesh out that core.
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By Alphagaia
#4900645
Well yeah, at the surface that's the story. A quite unique and inventive story, but that's it. The nothing does not mean there is no story, the OP just thinks there is no subtext or hidden meaning behind that story, like most other stories have.
By RichardLess
#4900729
Alphagaia wrote:Well yeah, at the surface that's the story. A quite unique and inventive story, but that's it. The nothing does not mean there is no story, the OP just thinks there is no subtext or hidden meaning behind that story, like most other stories have.


Couldn't have said it better myself lol
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By Sav C
#4900741
I agree that there probably isn't an underlying theme, and that the theme is actually the story itself. With that said, I do believe Venkman has a bit of an arc. I mean, from start to finish he sees a ghost for the first time, catches several ghosts, sees Dana get possessed, sees all of the ghosts released, sees Dana and Louis become terror dogs, meets a god, and witnesses the conjuring of a 112'6 marshmallow man. I'd say any sign of change (no matter how small) from beginning to end is actual change.

Although a thought just occurred to me. Perhaps Aykroyd/Ramis/Reitman intentionally wrote all of the characters so that they had no arc for the sake of comedy, i.e. they see all of this crazy life changing paranormal stuff, yet at the end they are all the same people they were at the beginning. Anything's possible.
By RichardLess
#4900747
Sav C wrote:I agree that there probably isn't an underlying theme, and that the theme is actually the story itself. With that said, I do believe Venkman has a bit of an arc. I mean, from start to finish he sees a ghost for the first time, catches several ghosts, sees Dana get possessed, sees all of the ghosts released, sees Dana and Louis become terror dogs, meets a god, and witnesses the conjuring of a 112'6 marshmallow man. I'd say any sign of change (no matter how small) from beginning to end is actual change.

Although a thought just occurred to me. Perhaps Aykroyd/Ramis/Reitman intentionally wrote all of the characters so that they had no arc for the sake of comedy, i.e. they see all of this crazy life changing paranormal stuff, yet at the end they are all the same people they were at the beginning. Anything's possible.


The only thing that happened to Venkman in all that you described is him seeing a ghost for the first time. Everything else is something he does or that happens to other people. Venkman, Stanz and Egon witnessing the first ghost happens within the first 10 minutes of the movie. That's not an arc. That's the starting point for the crux of the plot. An arc would have him say A: "I don't believe in Ghosts" B: Seeing a ghost for the first time, thus challenging his belief and possibly scaring him to C: Him busting a ghost and thus conquering said fear. That is an arc. The first scene of Venkman has him as a student/scientist of the paranormal . Does Venkman believe in ghosts at the opening of the film? He questions Ray about what he and Egon have seen, but I think he doesn't really care one way or the other. It just a way for him to pick up chicks. That doesn't change when they open the business. Witnessing Dana's transformation or witnessing the ghosts escape in not an arc, it's plot. He is a mere bystander to those events.

Venkman doesn't come to any greater understanding about anything, he isn't a changed man nor has he done anything out of character. I maintain that he has no arc.
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By JurorNo.2
#4900753
RichardLess wrote: The only thing that happened to Venkman in all that you described is him seeing a ghost for the first time.


Well did you see how Murray played that? For once, Venkman is nearly without words. It's a humbling/frightening moment. And suddenly he looks to Ray and Egon for what to do next, after previously mocking them. Of course Ray and Egon haven't thought that far so Venkman quickly realizes he needs to take charge of the situation, lol. That demonstrates early on his capacity for leadership.

Witnessing Dana's transformation or witnessing the ghosts escape in not an arc, it's plot.


More specifically, he sees a woman he was beginning to care about in danger, and possibly lost forever.
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By Alphagaia
#4900754
JurorNo.2 wrote:
RichardLess wrote: The only thing that happened to Venkman in all that you described is him seeing a ghost for the first time.


Well did you see how Murray played that? For once, Venkman is nearly without words. It's a humbling/frightening moment. And suddenly he looks to Ray and Egon for what to do next, after previously mocking them. Of course Ray and Egon haven't thought that far so Venkman quickly realizes he needs to take charge of the situation, lol. That demonstrates early on his capacity for leadership.


But that's not an arc, that's a character trade. He also takes charge of them before that as well.

JurorNo.2 wrote:
Witnessing Dana's transformation or witnessing the ghosts escape in not an arc, it's plot.


More specifically, he sees a woman he was beginning to care about in danger, and possibly lost forever.


Again, that's not an arc, and we don't even know if he really is madly in love with her, as he proclaims in a weird way, as we have no reference to prior girlfriends. All we know is he is weird, eccentric, likes to talk and likes the girls. This never changes.
By RichardLess
#4900778
JurorNo.2 wrote:
RichardLess wrote: The only thing that happened to Venkman in all that you described is him seeing a ghost for the first time.


Well did you see how Murray played that? For once, Venkman is nearly without words. It's a humbling/frightening moment. And suddenly he looks to Ray and Egon for what to do next, after previously mocking them. Of course Ray and Egon haven't thought that far so Venkman quickly realizes he needs to take charge of the situation, lol. That demonstrates early on his capacity for leadership.

Witnessing Dana's transformation or witnessing the ghosts escape in not an arc, it's plot.


More specifically, he sees a woman he was beginning to care about in danger, and possibly lost forever.


Most of what you are describing fall into plot and/or character traits. What is Venkman's first line after the transformation of Dana is complete? It's a quip about her being a dog lol.

Character arcs are usually crystal clear. The character is a changed person by the end of the film or has a new understanding about life
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By JurorNo.2
#4900797
RichardLess wrote:[q
Most of what you are describing fall into plot and/or character traits. What is Venkman's first line after the transformation of Dana is complete? It's a quip about her being a dog lol.


You strangely forgot about him calling out her name. You also didn't notice that his quip was a defense mechanism, the same him saying "she barks, she drools" at the prison.

Character arcs are usually crystal clear. The character is a changed person by the end of the film or has a new understanding about life


Well we went over this, Ghostbusters doesn't follow the usual writing devices and cliches. Doesn't mean there's nothing going on.
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By Alphagaia
#4900808
I feel like people take the word nothing way to literal.
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By RichardLess
#4900813
JurorNo.2 wrote:
RichardLess wrote:[q
Most of what you are describing fall into plot and/or character traits. What is Venkman's first line after the transformation of Dana is complete? It's a quip about her being a dog lol.


You strangely forgot about him calling out her name. You also didn't notice that his quip was a defense mechanism, the same him saying "she barks, she drools" at the prison.

Character arcs are usually crystal clear. The character is a changed person by the end of the film or has a new understanding about life


Well we went over this, Ghostbusters doesn't follow the usual writing devices and cliches. Doesn't mean there's nothing going on.


No I didn't. He calls out her name *before* the transformation is complete(watch it again). Of course it's a defence mechanism, but it's still a quip lol. Had there been a character arc here he wouldn't have gone into the defence mechanism joke mode. That's my point
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By JurorNo.2
#4900825
RichardLess wrote:
No I didn't. He calls out her name *before* the transformation is complete(watch it again).


Eh, pal, it's not about before and after. This isn't a math problem. ;)

Had there been a character arc here he wouldn't have gone into the defence mechanism joke mode.


Um, says who?
By RichardLess
#4900826
JurorNo.2 wrote:
RichardLess wrote:
No I didn't. He calls out her name *before* the transformation is complete(watch it again).


Eh, pal, it's not about before and after. This isn't a math problem. ;)

Had there been a character arc here he wouldn't have gone into the defence mechanism joke mode.


Um, says who?


Me and my opinion
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By JurorNo.2
#4900840
RichardLess wrote:
Me and my opinion


Awesome, it's just that, again, we've already established that Ghostbusters is an unusual movie that doesn't follow the traditional storytelling rules. Therefore, it may APPEAR to be about nothing, but that isn't the case.
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By RichardLess
#4900862
JurorNo.2 wrote:
RichardLess wrote:
Me and my opinion


Awesome, it's just that, again, we've already established that Ghostbusters is an unusual movie that doesn't follow the traditional storytelling rules. Therefore, it may APPEAR to be about nothing, but that isn't the case.


Right and, again, I get that this is *your* opinion. We've covered this ground before.
The storytelling rules it doesn't follow is A: there is no theme and B: No character arc for main characters. Otherwise what rules are you talking about? It's told in 3 acts, good guys win, Guy gets the girl. We have the audience surrogate in Winston, the montage showing progress, the government villian. Those are standard movie storytelling tropes. The unusual part is that they do it without a theme or character arc for the main characters.
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By JurorNo.2
#4900923
RichardLess wrote:
JurorNo.2 wrote:
Awesome, it's just that, again, we've already established that Ghostbusters is an unusual movie that doesn't follow the traditional storytelling rules. Therefore, it may APPEAR to be about nothing, but that isn't the case.


Right and, again, I get that this is *your* opinion. We've covered this ground before.
The storytelling rules it doesn't follow is A: there is no theme and B: No character arc for main characters. Otherwise what rules are you talking about? It's told in 3 acts, good guys win, Guy gets the girl. We have the audience surrogate in Winston, the montage showing progress, the government villian. Those are standard movie storytelling tropes. The unusual part is that they do it without a theme or character arc for the main characters.


The theme is the underdogs triumphing over the establishment. Also an immature guy taking responsibility. The difference is, unlike a lot of movies, Ghostbusters doesn't hit you over the head with these themes with a lot of pathos or contrived mid movie conflicts.
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By Sav C
#4900933
JurorNo.2 wrote:The theme is the underdogs triumphing over the establishment. Also an immature guy taking responsibility. The difference is, unlike a lot of movies, Ghostbusters doesn't hit you over the head with these themes with a lot of pathos or contrived mid movie conflicts.

Exactly, I agree 100%. I don't think anyone would be denying that those are the themes if they were written like a typical movie would write them, but Ghostbusters is very subtle. They don't spell it out, and I think that really helps the movie as things don't always get spelled out in real life. Not that it's a bad thing to spell themes out, it's just that Ghostbusters doesn't have to for the themes to be there. And then again those themes are easier to pick up in other movies like Caddyshack or Animal House, where they are exaggerated for comedic effect. But Ghostbusters isn't just about those themes, so it doesn't need to exaggerate them--even thought they are still there.
By Marcus B
#4900966
JurorNo.2 wrote:The theme is the underdogs triumphing over the establishment. Also an immature guy taking responsibility. The difference is, unlike a lot of movies, Ghostbusters doesn't hit you over the head with these themes with a lot of pathos or contrived mid movie conflicts.


I don't think they really triumph over the establishment. Walter Peck maybe, but he's a small obstacle really.

The Mayor calls them in for a meeting and ultimately sides with them.. but he requested their release from jail in the first place so they could be there. If the meeting were more mundane.. let's say it was about exterminators for a city building and what company to go with or whether it was needed at all.. did that company triumph over the establishment? I don't think so.

Venkman doesn't seem to change throughout the film.

I know this probably doesn't count, but GB2 kind of proves they didn't triumph over the establishment and that Venkman never changed.
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