Discuss the upcoming movie to be released in 2020 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4933734
Yeah, I'm not sold on the January idea in case covid's seasonal. I still believe there's a slim chance dates could change when things get better.

Have they made an announcement on face the music yet? It's to bad RoboCop Returns hasn't started fiing yet.

It would have been nice to see all three of these iconic eighty reboots back to back.

I just pray to all that's holy if Thundercats is thrown in it's not that Roar bullshit.
The very existence of Thundercats Roar angers me to no end. The 2011 series was GREAT and just because it didn't work as the toy commercial they wished it would have they cancelled it but it was a really awesome Thundercats adaptation.
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By timeware
#4933737
Yup. The sad truth about cartoon Network is when they have a good series like Megas XlR, or a programming block like Toonami they dump on things that are successful.

It was a damn mistake for them to copy Disney and switch to live action and getting rid of Toonami.

Dragonball and Anime put them on the map years ago. I swear they have freaking monkeys in charge of programming.

The teen Titans go animation style is really a giant wet piece of shit. Or a better example is it looks like somebody melted a bunch of Russian nesting dolls and stopped half way through.
#4933738
Yup. The sad truth about cartoon Network is when they have a good series like Megas XlR, or a programming block like Toonami they dump on things that are successful.

It was a damn mistake for them to copy Disney and switch to live action and getting rid of Toonami.

Dragonball and Anime put them on the map years ago. I swear they have freaking monkeys in charge of programming.

The teen Titans go animation style is really a giant wet piece of shit. Or a better example is it looks like somebody melted a bunch of Russian nesting dolls and stopped half way through.
Adult Swim used to be the bomb as well. At least they gave Samurai Jack a good sendoff.
By RichardLess
#4933740
Yup. The sad truth about cartoon Network is when they have a good series like Megas XlR, or a programming block like Toonami they dump on things that are successful.

It was a damn mistake for them to copy Disney and switch to live action and getting rid of Toonami.

Dragonball and Anime put them on the map years ago. I swear they have freaking monkeys in charge of programming.

The teen Titans go animation style is really a giant wet piece of shit. Or a better example is it looks like somebody melted a bunch of Russian nesting dolls and stopped half way through.
Yeah, the FLASH animation style. It’s the worst. I fear the new Animaniacs show will have a cheap look like Teen Titans Go.

Animation on TV has become a joke. Computers ruined the art of it. I miss the days of Ink & Paint. Batman The Animated Series and it’s beautiful backgrounds and colour scheme just couldn’t be done.
#4933743
Yup. The sad truth about cartoon Network is when they have a good series like Megas XlR, or a programming block like Toonami they dump on things that are successful.

It was a damn mistake for them to copy Disney and switch to live action and getting rid of Toonami.

Dragonball and Anime put them on the map years ago. I swear they have freaking monkeys in charge of programming.

The teen Titans go animation style is really a giant wet piece of shit. Or a better example is it looks like somebody melted a bunch of Russian nesting dolls and stopped half way through.
Yeah, the FLASH animation style. It’s the worst. I fear the new Animaniacs show will have a cheap look like Teen Titans Go.

Animation on TV has become a joke. Computers ruined the art of it. I miss the days of Ink & Paint. Batman The Animated Series and it’s beautiful backgrounds and colour scheme just couldn’t be done.
Yeah I'm a diehard hand drawn guy and I miss hand drawn animation like crazy. Even the RGB animation still holds up. It's one of the reasons why, as much as I love Pixar, that they can never replace the old Disney classics because of the personal touch of the 9 old men in the animation. Once Pixar and Dreamworks gained such popularity the writing was on the wall for traditional animation. Still, though, movies like Lady and The Tramp and Bambi will forever stand the test of time for their realism and incredible animation.
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By deadderek
#4933749
Multiple Walmart stores have broken the street date. Hell yeah!

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By deadderek
#4933757
I wonder what other (if any) merchandise might hit the shelves early.
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By deadderek
#4933763
I'm really hoping to see more done from the Kenner figures with the Afterlife stuff (most likely) pushed back.
I'd bet we'll get classic style merchandise throughout 2020 now. The fun thing to think about is when to release Afterlife specific toys.

The movie comes out in March. So will there be Afterlife stuff around Christmas or would it be too spoiler filled?
By RichardLess
#4933767


Yeah, the FLASH animation style. It’s the worst. I fear the new Animaniacs show will have a cheap look like Teen Titans Go.

Animation on TV has become a joke. Computers ruined the art of it. I miss the days of Ink & Paint. Batman The Animated Series and it’s beautiful backgrounds and colour scheme just couldn’t be done.
Yeah I'm a diehard hand drawn guy and I miss hand drawn animation like crazy. Even the RGB animation still holds up. It's one of the reasons why, as much as I love Pixar, that they can never replace the old Disney classics because of the personal touch of the 9 old men in the animation. Once Pixar and Dreamworks gained such popularity the writing was on the wall for traditional animation. Still, though, movies like Lady and The Tramp and Bambi will forever stand the test of time for their realism and incredible animation.
It’s such a shame we lost one of the greatest animators in history last year, Richard Williams(director of the Who Framed Roger Rabbit animation sequences). The fact that he never got to see his magnum opus completed properly is a crime. “The Thief and the Cobbler” is maybe the most beautiful animated film ever made and the only version released to the public is a bastardized version that makes me sick. If only the world could see the proper finished version. The stuff that was cut out and not yet fully complete can be found on YouTube and it’s just jaw droppingly awe inspiring. He does parallax changes with no CGI. All of it done by hand a single frame at a time.

Anyone who wants to be wowed should look up some of the “Thief and Cobbler” work print footage on YouTube.
#4933774


Yeah I'm a diehard hand drawn guy and I miss hand drawn animation like crazy. Even the RGB animation still holds up. It's one of the reasons why, as much as I love Pixar, that they can never replace the old Disney classics because of the personal touch of the 9 old men in the animation. Once Pixar and Dreamworks gained such popularity the writing was on the wall for traditional animation. Still, though, movies like Lady and The Tramp and Bambi will forever stand the test of time for their realism and incredible animation.
It’s such a shame we lost one of the greatest animators in history last year, Richard Williams(director of the Who Framed Roger Rabbit animation sequences). The fact that he never got to see his magnum opus completed properly is a crime. “The Thief and the Cobbler” is maybe the most beautiful animated film ever made and the only version released to the public is a bastardized version that makes me sick. If only the world could see the proper finished version. The stuff that was cut out and not yet fully complete can be found on YouTube and it’s just jaw droppingly awe inspiring. He does parallax changes with no CGI. All of it done by hand a single frame at a time.

Anyone who wants to be wowed should look up some of the “Thief and Cobbler” work print footage on YouTube.
Another all time great work of animation is called Grave of the Fireflies and it's an anime told from the perspective of two kids in Japan that tried to survive the dropping of the atomic bomb. It is NOT for the faint of heart but I've probably never had an animated film move me to that degree. I mean it's like the end of Toy Story 3 levels of emotion but all of it is actually true and is based on a novel of a guy who was a kid when the bomb was dropped. I will check out that video you mentioned for sure. Also if you want to see some great modern hand drawn work check out Cuphead. I'm a diehard fanboy of it and it has some of the most glorious artwork I've ever seen in it from start to finish. I would kill to have a modern cartoon in that art style.
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By Ectojeff88
#4933785
If a bunch of merch releases early then what’s left to keep the promotion train going? The 80s novelizations reissue is already out with the art book coming soon.

Not good if GB stuff is on clearance by end of summer with the movie not even out yet until next March! Hopefully more new products may go into production.

Now would also be a time to maybe have the developer reevaluate adding content to the GB remaster! It’s a hopeless dream I’m sure, but so was GB III a year ago!
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By timeware
#4933787
Flight of dragons, lensmen, legend of Orin starchaser were great examples of hand drawn, although lensmen did use some special effects.

Orin's a stawars clone but it's decent.

If they don't push out Christmas, Halloween related merch this year it's a big mistake.

Even if they delay products for two to three months it's going to give them a heads up on the movies being released next year.

I'm sure Disney's already planning on flooding the Christmas season with merch. Baby Yoda stockings and ornaments are going to be everywhere.

I imagine any baby Yoda wrapping paper will be sold out upon arrival.

It would be simple for toy stores or big chains to have some kind of of motion activated card board display to play the theme song as you step into that aisle.
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By Glenn Frederick
Supporting Member
#4933791
A couple of months ago Home Depot had put on their site a inflatable Etco-1 with Slimer hanging out the window for this halloween as reported by Ghostbusters News, well a couple of weeks ago I checked Home Depot's site and they completely took the listing down. I do wonder what Sony plans on doing for this Halloween themed Merchandise?
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By Kingpin
Moderator
#4933794
Animation on TV has become a joke. Computers ruined the art of it. I miss the days of Ink & Paint. Batman The Animated Series and it’s beautiful backgrounds and colour scheme just couldn’t be done.
(It won't be much of a surprise for me to say this, but) I disagree. While there will always be an artistry to hand-drawn animation, and there are many, many excellent examples of it that have been preserved, computers haven't ruined the art. To be honest I think they've helped to perfect aspects of it.

As good as hand-drawn animation can be, there are also some downright awful efforts given to us in the medium. Even some of the better-quality shows of recent history before can be extremely hit and miss.

Compare five different episodes of Batman: The Animated Series or The Real Ghostbusters, and the quality varies considerably, sometimes you'll see an A-Team and a B-Team(The Real Ghostbusters even introduce a C-Team (On Leath Wings and Christmas with the Joker for TAS, or The Collect Call of Cathulhu, A Ghost Grows in Brooklyn, and Play Them Ragtime Boos or A Fright at the Opera for RGB).

Even Gargoyles has the A-Team/B-Team through its run, and it's frustrating that the show can have such high-quality animation in one story, and slightly ropier the next... Even more irksome when it happens through a multi-part story, which the show had a few of.

In the end, it's not the computer's fault that a crappy animation style has been chosen for a cartoon, in this instance the computer is solely the tool for execution... It's the artists and the people driving the cartoon's aesthetic design who should shoulder the blame.

Computers have helped to improve the consistency of a show's look... Often, true, in efforts that closer resemble high-quality flash cartoons, but even stuff that still has a foot in the traditional animation pool, like Voltron: Legendary Defender.

For it's faults, many of whom were found in its story, Voltron is well animated. The genetics of the animation is traditional, but the final "inks and colouring", backgrounds, and special effects are largely computer-based, as are the majority of the space and fight sequences.

The 3D models don't sit flawlessly in the animation, but their cel-shading has come a long way from the early days of 3D integration into 2D, and ultimately help save hand-drawing some very complex sequences... And as we've seen, rendering a 3D fight by hand can be tricky, numerous animation/perspective errors in Transformers exemplify this. Another benefit of using 3D for the fights is if you don't like the first pass, you can tweak it and then re-render it.

While the original 1980s Voltron: Defender of the Universe has its charm, some of its animation is really quite ropey.

Another great example of computer use in animation with traditional stylings is 2002's He-Man and The Masters of Universe. With digital character inking/colouring and background paintings, special effects... It was a marked step up over the original, and then there's the fixes in the aesthetics and story which catapulted it further.

Computers in animation aren't the problem, it's how they're used... An issue very similar to CG effects versus practical.
How much, if anything, do you guys think will make it into Afterlife that was planned for the recently leaked script?
The "not actually a script leak" script leak?
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#4933805
Can you provide a link to the script? God I hope they don't go the starwars route. Not unless one of the og's actually become a force ghost.
It's on the front page of this site but I actually originally saw it on IGN. I was gonna start a thread about it but I figured there already was one that I just hadn't seen. The script for what was gonna be GB3 was released and basically some of the things in it actually sound like some theories that have been floated here.
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By SpaceBallz
#4933808
Oh are you talking about the GB3 script from 1999? Anything leftover from that script is definitely not in this new flick. Different writers and ideas change over 20 years.
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By RichardLess
#4933813
Animation on TV has become a joke. Computers ruined the art of it. I miss the days of Ink & Paint. Batman The Animated Series and it’s beautiful backgrounds and colour scheme just couldn’t be done.
(It won't be much of a surprise for me to say this, but) I disagree. While there will always be an artistry to hand-drawn animation, and there are many, many excellent examples of it that have been preserved, computers haven't ruined the art. To be honest I think they've helped to perfect aspects of it.

As good as hand-drawn animation can be, there are also some downright awful efforts given to us in the medium. Even some of the better-quality shows of recent history before can be extremely hit and miss.

Compare five different episodes of Batman: The Animated Series or The Real Ghostbusters, and the quality varies considerably, sometimes you'll see an A-Team and a B-Team(The Real Ghostbusters even introduce a C-Team (On Leath Wings and Christmas with the Joker for TAS, or The Collect Call of Cathulhu, A Ghost Grows in Brooklyn, and Play Them Ragtime Boos or A Fright at the Opera for RGB).

Even Gargoyles has the A-Team/B-Team through its run, and it's frustrating that the show can have such high-quality animation in one story, and slightly ropier the next... Even more irksome when it happens through a multi-part story, which the show had a few of.

In the end, it's not the computer's fault that a crappy animation style has been chosen for a cartoon, in this instance the computer is solely the tool for execution... It's the artists and the people driving the cartoon's aesthetic design who should shoulder the blame.

Computers have helped to improve the consistency of a show's look... Often, true, in efforts that closer resemble high-quality flash cartoons, but even stuff that still has a foot in the traditional animation pool, like Voltron: Legendary Defender.

For it's faults, many of whom were found in its story, Voltron is well animated. The genetics of the animation is traditional, but the final "inks and colouring", backgrounds, and special effects are largely computer-based, as are the majority of the space and fight sequences.

The 3D models don't sit flawlessly in the animation, but their cel-shading has come a long way from the early days of 3D integration into 2D, and ultimately help save hand-drawing some very complex sequences... And as we've seen, rendering a 3D fight by hand can be tricky, numerous animation/perspective errors in Transformers exemplify this. Another benefit of using 3D for the fights is if you don't like the first pass, you can tweak it and then re-render it.

While the original 1980s Voltron: Defender of the Universe has its charm, some of its animation is really quite ropey.

Another great example of computer use in animation with traditional stylings is 2002's He-Man and The Masters of Universe. With digital character inking/colouring and background paintings, special effects... It was a marked step up over the original, and then there's the fixes in the aesthetics and story which catapulted it further.

Computers in animation aren't the problem, it's how they're used... An issue very similar to CG effects versus practical.
How much, if anything, do you guys think will make it into Afterlife that was planned for the recently leaked script?
The "not actually a script leak" script leak?
Yeah hand drawn animation isn’t perfect. And going off model is a constant problem. But that’s why I love it. When it’s good, it’s unbeatable. Imperfections are the soul of animation. Especially TV animation. Also, I’m more speaking about ink and paint. Digital ink and paint, especially the CAPS system, is the problem I have. I love the look actual ink and paint. It’s an aesthetic quality I love. Digital is more brilliant and bright. But actual ink and paint is more warm & soulful. Intangible qualities. I get why almost everyone would disagree with me. It’s just something I’ve always loved.

Most of what you are talking about, the poor quality of animation, is a money & time thing.

I’m not sure what you are trying to say about On Leather Wings. That episode as terrific animation. Christmas With The Joker is flawed, for sure.(EDIT Reread what you wrote and I now understand that you were comparing the two). As the show went along the animation got more consistent. Season 3 and the redesigned season 4 are nearly flawless. The water colour look of Batman chasing Killer Croc in “Sideshow”. You can’t get that with computers. Or the beauty of clayface’s final transformation in “Feat of Clay Part 2”. Here’s maybe a better comparison.

Compare Justice League Season 1 and Batman The Animated Series. JL was digital ink and painted. It doesn’t have near the beauty and aesthetic of Batman. Or Batman Beyond S3 to S1.

Yes computer animation can be beautiful. Young Justice has terrific work done. But I just prefer the analog aesthetic.

Here’s an example: Compare The Great Mouse Detective to Beauty and the Beast(which was CAPS). Now Beauty & the Beast is beautiful and wondrous to behold. And yet...I’ll take The Great Mouse Detective any day. You can almost see the pencil lines. I LOVE that. I love the analog style of the sound and the music. It fits with Victorian England. I love that Disney animation aesthetic. The almost mono sound of the microphone picking up the voice actors. When it sounds as if the speakers can barely contain the music recorded. There an almost “hiss” quality to it, like it’s recorded on vinyl. It’s hard to put into words. But again, I know all the draw backs and reasons why computers are better. But it’s an aesthetic thing for me. I love analog movie making. Especially animation.
By RichardLess
#4933814
Can you provide a link to the script? God I hope they don't go the starwars route. Not unless one of the og's actually become a force ghost.
It's on the front page of this site but I actually originally saw it on IGN. I was gonna start a thread about it but I figured there already was one that I just hadn't seen. The script for what was gonna be GB3 was released and basically some of the things in it actually sound like some theories that have been floated here.
Did you read the article? The script didn’t leak. IGN did a script review of it back in 2002(wow. I remember reading that when it first came out). They are just re reporting what was already mostly known, minus the dead Venkman thing. That’s the only new tidbit.

It’s interesting to see that Killing Venkman off was something they were planning all the way back then. I thought that was something that came up in the later drafts.
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By timeware
#4933816
I never read the article, or studied.
I have an interest in reading movie scripts, and still have yet to see ATC's. If they ever had one.

Transcripts yes, but that's just dialogue.

Yeah the killing of Venkman idea is interesting I just want a purpose behind that plot.

They did kill Murray off in ATC but it was a different character.
#4933819


It's on the front page of this site but I actually originally saw it on IGN. I was gonna start a thread about it but I figured there already was one that I just hadn't seen. The script for what was gonna be GB3 was released and basically some of the things in it actually sound like some theories that have been floated here.
Did you read the article? The script didn’t leak. IGN did a script review of it back in 2002(wow. I remember reading that when it first came out). They are just re reporting what was already mostly known, minus the dead Venkman thing. That’s the only new tidbit.

It’s interesting to see that Killing Venkman off was something they were planning all the way back then. I thought that was something that came up in the later drafts.
Oh no I didn't realize that was from 2002. I just grazed over what was in the article because I was sort of afraid I might get something spoiled from the new film. I think the article might have had a picture of the front page of a script or something. The idea of them fighting satan as the main villain reminded me of the episode of the show where they had to face him in a game show and that's maybe my all time favorite episode. It seemed they were already trying to pass the baton then too with the idea of having some new generation becoming a Ghostbuster as well. IF this movie is gonna have more of an emotional tone to it then I can really see them killing off a Ghostbuster and the most emotional one for them to kill would actually be Ray for my money. We know that he really loves the franchise and I view Venkman, or rather Bill Murray, as more of a Han Solo, or rather Harrison Ford type of dude, that's only in it for the money and I think most fans know of his sordid relationship with the franchise but Dan Aykroyd has shown great interest in it throughout time and so not only do I think Ray is the heart of the Ghostbusters but I think Dan Aykroyd is as well.
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By Kingpin
Moderator
#4933821
Season 3 and the redesigned season 4 are nearly flawless.
I actually greatly disliked the simplification to the artwork with The New Batman Adventures, there's no way that this:

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Was an improvement on this:

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The streamlined style just didn't have the charm the cartoon had in its early years. The only design change I'd agree is an improvement is Scarecrow's.
By RichardLess
#4933833
Season 3 and the redesigned season 4 are nearly flawless.
I actually greatly disliked the simplification to the artwork with The New Batman Adventures, there's no way that this:

Image
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Was an improvement on this:

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The streamlined style just didn't have the charm the cartoon had in its early years. The only design change I'd agree is an improvement is Scarecrow's.
Oh 100% agreed. Oddly enough that line up doesn’t include the god awful Joker redesign where he has the black beady eyes. The joker included there is the re-redesign from Justice League(Oh never mind. There he is at the bottom, ugh, such a terrible choice). The Riddler one is just...why? He looks like a dope. What I meant by flawless is the animation itself. It’s really great stuff. I think that style really worked on Superman The Animated Series, which is terrific. I hope we get that on blu ray soon.

There are two redesigns I like. The scarecrow, just like you, and I actually really love Batman and the darker suit. Everything else is not as good. But the re design helped keep the animation better. And some of those episodes like Old Wounds, Mad Love & Over the Edge are just great. I get why they had to do the re design, which was because the show switched over from Fox to KidsWB and re-design= New Toys. Plus it helped keep the show in continuity with Superman. And like you said, streamlined the entire process. So I’m ok with the changes since we got some new episodes out of it.

I didn’t like the idea of such a young Robin, but they made it kind of work. And don’t even get me started on the mullet of Nightwing lol.

But the worst most unforgivable change is what they did to Bruce himself. Not his design, which is a problem, but they stopped using the lighter tone voice to differentiate between Bruce & Batman.
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