Discuss the upcoming movie to be released in 2020 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4961237
The Ghostbusters went defunct when Egon took off with all the equipment, my question is, when did that happen?

Gary mentions there hasn't been a ghost sighting in 30 years, so did the Ghostbusters go defunct soon after the second movie (or perhaps the game)?

If Ray says something about when it happened in the phone conversation I must have missed it, but I'd really like a clear timeline.
#4961345
I think Gary's line regarding no ghost sighting could be taken to mean nothing of the scale as to make national news like Gozer. Ray indicates they continued on (would assume after GB2's events) until they had dried up demand ala the "Ghost Busted" episode of RGB.
seekandannoy liked this
#4961357
That is a good point, as I see it:

-GB 1984 Event. They probably continued chasing ghosts for a bit before they got shutted down by the Goverment.
-GB II 1989 Event. They kept working on the bussines until they "Dried out", it never specifies when that happened, but seems they got some work for a while, maybe a few years until they got to the point that they went form 10 calls a week to 1 a week.

That means, and I want to really make it work, that The Videogame and even the Comic Books could be "canon"

The video game happens on 1992, just 3 years after GB2, so its pretty close, and maybe thats the last major "Event" Media gets a hold of. Thats 29 years before 2021, so it could fit on the "30 years without a ghost sight", Probably they kept chasing ghosts in a lower porfile, not that mediatic, and more local after The Videogame events, We know how people/news are, they get excited about something and then they ignore it as if it never happene dor its not happening. Just check what happened with the Talibans, so much coverage on the main event, barely nothing months later, and they are in the same situation or worst.

About the VideoGame, I know about the Ivo Shandor... but... All we know in afterlife is that his Body is well preserved (maybe a curse around the coffin?) and he just awakes when the gateway is opened. So HE IS A GHOST, he is DEAD and a Gateway needs to be open so he can return to his body. So The Vidoegame events could have happened, remember he ditched Gozer to be himself a truly God, so he betrayed Gozer in a way, and tried to overstep her/him/it. That would justify why Gozer rips him in 2 when he sees him? That's not there because "yes", we never saw Gozer act like that, totally the oposite, he/she is very calm and unemotional.

So that means that they probably could run the bussines for a few years on a lower key, maybe a couple? 1995? maybe a bit more? that would make sense. That would be a nice time frame for the comic books to happen. Or get retconed to be on a lower key a bit maybe? I would need to re-read it thru the major arcs, but I don't recall there was any BIG event that afected the Media as it did in the movies.. Maybe the International trip or Thiamat?

After that Egoon might have left by then, so he would have called Ray 10 years later, when he was sure of what was going on on Summerville and did all the discoveries and stuff he needed to prove he was right, Arround 2005-2010. But it was too late for get believed by the guys you stole all the equipment and wiped out (I'm sure they stop GB bussines because Egoon took almost everything, so Ray had ot Build new stuff, that means more money in bills, not enough ghost to cover all, they loose the firehouse, probably kept working on a lower rent place for a bit, but got to a point that was not rentable and they just decided to finish the Bussines. Probably Venkman alreayd departed before it reached to this point. It took 10-15 more years to prepare what he did on Summervile, convert the farmhous einto a gigantic trap, and put the security measures on the Gateway. Let's remember he was alone, working on allt his shit, and his supply store was probably not very quick abotu getting stuff. At the same time he had to "farm" stuff to "Barely kep the light on" since he had to survive for several years and still pay the bills. I Bet that he called Jannine after he got dimissed by Ray, so Jannine was around in and out the whole time untill he died. Thats why she struggles to define his relationship with him, they were together, but not officialy together probably, with ins and outs since Egoon was a bit "on the other side" mentaly, and probbaly got worts thru the years since he was alone. At least for what we heard from everyone.

Somehting Why I want to still believe that the Comic books are canon in a certan way... is because Winston in the credits is called: dr. Zedmore. He never was a Dr, and yet they explain that after GB bussines shutted down, he went into finances... While in the COmic Books, he got his Doctorade in science studying at night while workign witht he GB.

What do you guys think?
#4961379
I'm gonna just throw out a date, how about 2008 is when the split happens and Ghostbusters goes defunct? Might make sense given the economic downturn that happened around then with a lot of business going defunct.

By the 2000s work had slowed way down for the Ghostbusters, but they were still a thing, just not much in the public spotlight, the split and going defunct happens at the end of the decade and the 2010s is when they went their separate ways.

Ten years later, so around 2018 or 2019 is when Egon contacts Ray feeling like he's actually made a big discovery, so not too long before the events of Afterlife.

Does that make sense?
#4961382
dantonvfx wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 3:32 pm That is a good point, as I see it:

-GB 1984 Event. They probably continued chasing ghosts for a bit before they got shutted down by the Goverment.
-GB II 1989 Event. They kept working on the bussines until they "Dried out", it never specifies when that happened, but seems they got some work for a while, maybe a few years until they got to the point that they went form 10 calls a week to 1 a week.

That means, and I want to really make it work, that The Videogame and even the Comic Books could be "canon"

The video game happens on 1992, just 3 years after GB2, so its pretty close, and maybe thats the last major "Event" Media gets a hold of. Thats 29 years before 2021, so it could fit on the "30 years without a ghost sight", Probably they kept chasing ghosts in a lower porfile, not that mediatic, and more local after The Videogame events, We know how people/news are, they get excited about something and then they ignore it as if it never happene dor its not happening. Just check what happened with the Talibans, so much coverage on the main event, barely nothing months later, and they are in the same situation or worst.

About the VideoGame, I know about the Ivo Shandor... but... All we know in afterlife is that his Body is well preserved (maybe a curse around the coffin?) and he just awakes when the gateway is opened. So HE IS A GHOST, he is DEAD and a Gateway needs to be open so he can return to his body. So The Vidoegame events could have happened, remember he ditched Gozer to be himself a truly God, so he betrayed Gozer in a way, and tried to overstep her/him/it. That would justify why Gozer rips him in 2 when he sees him? That's not there because "yes", we never saw Gozer act like that, totally the oposite, he/she is very calm and unemotional.

So that means that they probably could run the bussines for a few years on a lower key, maybe a couple? 1995? maybe a bit more? that would make sense. That would be a nice time frame for the comic books to happen. Or get retconed to be on a lower key a bit maybe? I would need to re-read it thru the major arcs, but I don't recall there was any BIG event that afected the Media as it did in the movies.. Maybe the International trip or Thiamat?

After that Egoon might have left by then, so he would have called Ray 10 years later, when he was sure of what was going on on Summerville and did all the discoveries and stuff he needed to prove he was right, Arround 2005-2010. But it was too late for get believed by the guys you stole all the equipment and wiped out (I'm sure they stop GB bussines because Egoon took almost everything, so Ray had ot Build new stuff, that means more money in bills, not enough ghost to cover all, they loose the firehouse, probably kept working on a lower rent place for a bit, but got to a point that was not rentable and they just decided to finish the Bussines. Probably Venkman alreayd departed before it reached to this point. It took 10-15 more years to prepare what he did on Summervile, convert the farmhous einto a gigantic trap, and put the security measures on the Gateway. Let's remember he was alone, working on allt his shit, and his supply store was probably not very quick abotu getting stuff. At the same time he had to "farm" stuff to "Barely kep the light on" since he had to survive for several years and still pay the bills. I Bet that he called Jannine after he got dimissed by Ray, so Jannine was around in and out the whole time untill he died. Thats why she struggles to define his relationship with him, they were together, but not officialy together probably, with ins and outs since Egoon was a bit "on the other side" mentaly, and probbaly got worts thru the years since he was alone. At least for what we heard from everyone.

Somehting Why I want to still believe that the Comic books are canon in a certan way... is because Winston in the credits is called: dr. Zedmore. He never was a Dr, and yet they explain that after GB bussines shutted down, he went into finances... While in the COmic Books, he got his Doctorade in science studying at night while workign witht he GB.

What do you guys think?
I find it so funny that Ray's cameo in Casper fits so well into Afterlife's back story.
halliwax liked this
#4961405
Bison256 wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 5:44 pm
dantonvfx wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 3:32 pm That is a good point, as I see it:

-GB 1984 Event. They probably continued chasing ghosts for a bit before they got shutted down by the Goverment.
-GB II 1989 Event. They kept working on the bussines until they "Dried out", it never specifies when that happened, but seems they got some work for a while, maybe a few years until they got to the point that they went form 10 calls a week to 1 a week.

That means, and I want to really make it work, that The Videogame and even the Comic Books could be "canon"

The video game happens on 1992, just 3 years after GB2, so its pretty close, and maybe thats the last major "Event" Media gets a hold of. Thats 29 years before 2021, so it could fit on the "30 years without a ghost sight", Probably they kept chasing ghosts in a lower porfile, not that mediatic, and more local after The Videogame events, We know how people/news are, they get excited about something and then they ignore it as if it never happene dor its not happening. Just check what happened with the Talibans, so much coverage on the main event, barely nothing months later, and they are in the same situation or worst.

About the VideoGame, I know about the Ivo Shandor... but... All we know in afterlife is that his Body is well preserved (maybe a curse around the coffin?) and he just awakes when the gateway is opened. So HE IS A GHOST, he is DEAD and a Gateway needs to be open so he can return to his body. So The Vidoegame events could have happened, remember he ditched Gozer to be himself a truly God, so he betrayed Gozer in a way, and tried to overstep her/him/it. That would justify why Gozer rips him in 2 when he sees him? That's not there because "yes", we never saw Gozer act like that, totally the oposite, he/she is very calm and unemotional.

So that means that they probably could run the bussines for a few years on a lower key, maybe a couple? 1995? maybe a bit more? that would make sense. That would be a nice time frame for the comic books to happen. Or get retconed to be on a lower key a bit maybe? I would need to re-read it thru the major arcs, but I don't recall there was any BIG event that afected the Media as it did in the movies.. Maybe the International trip or Thiamat?

After that Egoon might have left by then, so he would have called Ray 10 years later, when he was sure of what was going on on Summerville and did all the discoveries and stuff he needed to prove he was right, Arround 2005-2010. But it was too late for get believed by the guys you stole all the equipment and wiped out (I'm sure they stop GB bussines because Egoon took almost everything, so Ray had ot Build new stuff, that means more money in bills, not enough ghost to cover all, they loose the firehouse, probably kept working on a lower rent place for a bit, but got to a point that was not rentable and they just decided to finish the Bussines. Probably Venkman alreayd departed before it reached to this point. It took 10-15 more years to prepare what he did on Summervile, convert the farmhous einto a gigantic trap, and put the security measures on the Gateway. Let's remember he was alone, working on allt his shit, and his supply store was probably not very quick abotu getting stuff. At the same time he had to "farm" stuff to "Barely kep the light on" since he had to survive for several years and still pay the bills. I Bet that he called Jannine after he got dimissed by Ray, so Jannine was around in and out the whole time untill he died. Thats why she struggles to define his relationship with him, they were together, but not officialy together probably, with ins and outs since Egoon was a bit "on the other side" mentaly, and probbaly got worts thru the years since he was alone. At least for what we heard from everyone.

Somehting Why I want to still believe that the Comic books are canon in a certan way... is because Winston in the credits is called: dr. Zedmore. He never was a Dr, and yet they explain that after GB bussines shutted down, he went into finances... While in the COmic Books, he got his Doctorade in science studying at night while workign witht he GB.

What do you guys think?
I find it so funny that Ray's cameo in Casper fits so well into Afterlife's back story.
that is hilarious!! yes!
#4961479
joezlo wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 1:48 pm The film is set in 2021, if Ray said Egon called 10 years later; it could be indicative of 2012.
but that's the thing we don't know what year he left between 1989 (GB2) and 2021 (GBA) so ten years from when is the question. If he had said ten years ago rather then ten years later...might have helped. It's a start
#4961500
The implication is that Egon became so obsessed with the return of Gozer that he never knew his daughter. It doesn't work that he left in 2008 or whatever.

It is also implied his obsession was fracturing his relationship with the team for a while before he stole the equipment and fled. So running off immediately after GBII doesn't fit.

It is possible Egon had a relationship not featured in the game. And that the events from the game were the start of his breakdown. If not the start then at least an eacalation.

His daughter always talks like he abandoned her completely from birth, but that may not necessarily be true. She never knew him or remembered him, but she could have been a toddler when he left.

1984 - first movie
1989 - second movie
1990 Egon & girlfriend have a child.
1991 - TVG. Another apocalyptic event starts to break Egons brain.
1992 / 1993- Egon becomes distant, possibly ends relationship with his girlfriend.
1994 - Business slows down
1995 - Egon steals equipment, leaves his friends and family.
2005 - Egon calls Ray
2006 - Egons daughter has a son at 16
2008 - Phoebe is born

Also of note: we knew next to nothing about Egons personal life. A relationship with another woman may explain why he and Jeanine were not together in GBII.
#4961547
That timeline is a nice basic outline but as mentioned yes Callie was born in 83 making her 38 in 2021 not 40 in 2021 as the actress is. Your thoughts on the game making the distance from the team happen are interesting though and does sort of give me some closure as to why Shandor is killed when Gozer arrives. We may never know why she never knew him or met him but knew of him and what he was.

1983 - Egon & partner have a child named Callie
1984 - first movie
1989 - second movie
1991 - the video game.
1992 - Another apocalyptic event starts to direct Egons focus.
1993 - 1995 - Business slows down. Egon researches location of next event and when.
1996 - 2000 - Egon becomes distant, obsessed with another apocalyptical event. Determines Summerville OK as site of next event.
2001 - Egon steals Ecto-1, most equipment, leaves his friends and family.
2006 - Egons daughter Callie has a son named Trevor at 23 in February
2009 - Egon's daughter Callie has a daughter named Phoebe at 26
2010 - Egon continues to work on large scale dirt field trap and equipment mods at farm in Summerville.
2011 - Egon calls Ray and tells him about Summerville Shandor Mine/ Temple
2021 - Intervenes in Terror Dog arrival at Temple in Shandor Mine, attempts to trap partner Terror Dog the same night to stop Gozer from coming however dirt trap fails and Egon succumbs to a heart attack induced by Terror Dog physical attack.
Last edited by RealGhostbusterJay on November 29th, 2021, 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4961592
The video game unfortunately can't be considered canon with the movie:
•Shandor is confirmed dead in the game, and his body thoroughly decayed: you find his skull in the Central Park Cemetery.
•It's implied Shandor destroyed Gozer after the guys defeated he/she/it a second time.
This Post Contains Spoilers
#4961600
Kingpin wrote: November 25th, 2021, 11:47 am
•Shandor is confirmed dead in the game, and his body thoroughly decayed: you find his skull in the Central Park Cemetery.
•It's implied Shandor destroyed Gozer after the guys defeated he/she/it a second time.
This Post Contains Spoilers
I honestly don't think this matters. The canon can be flexible where the videogame is concerned.

It has the voices (figuratively) of the original writers which Afterlife does not. I never expected the movie to acknowledge the game, and I appreciate the Shandor stuff doesn't really gel... but for me, that doesn't matter. If plot inconsistencies were rigid then there's an argument Afterlife technically isn't canon either.
#4961608
Chicken, He Clucked wrote: November 25th, 2021, 12:38 pmI honestly don't think this matters. The canon can be flexible where the videogame is concerned.
Flexible is allowing Superman Returns to be a canon sequel to Superman I-III (or -IV if we're being very generous) even though the cast are all different, as it's still in the spirit of the original Donner films.

To allow GB:TVG to remain canon, you've got to be Reed Richards.

I adore the video game like everyone else here, and for years it was "Ghostbusters 3", but it's incompatible now.
Alphagaia liked this
#4961610
Something being canon or not does not remove the fun for me, either.

The videogame, the cartoons, the comics, the reboot. I can enjoy them all for their own things. Heck, IDW's series even managed to pull it all inside one dimensional hub, so there is always that!
#4961664
I will say there are different canon's. You have the 3 films. GB1,GB2.GBA
You have the atc film
You have the IDW comics
You have the video game/different style version of the video game as well
You have the RGB and EGB cartoons

Depending on your likes or dislikes you may be able to work the video game or comics or cartoons into your thinking. I'm personally for the VG being part of it, Shandors corpse is found where in the game exactly? I know he posses the Mayor (who was maybe the Doctor from the Hospital in GB2? ;))

I would not reference Returns as a sequel. Much like most DC films/ TV now it's a multiverse or rather at least three different timelines.
you have the theatrical version of 1 and 2 then returns.
You have the director or extended cut of 1 then the donner cut of 2
you have the director or extended cut of 1, the theatrical cut of 2 then the 3 and then 4

I would counter that the GB series is more like Star Wars universe. You have canon and then Legends. Anything pre Disney not recognized is not officially canon but because currently LFL and Disney(imo have some of the worst storylines apart from Rogue 1, and The Mandalorian currently) don't want to alienate fans they still print these books, comics etc. and will at times work past Expanded Universe(Legends) canon into recognized canon such as KOTOR. Some fans find the previous stories better as extended canon and choose Legends over what's currently officially canon. So you can take what you want and leave the rest, like a salad bar.
#4961668
RealGhostbusterJay wrote: November 26th, 2021, 4:31 amI'm personally for the VG being part of it, Shandors corpse is found where in the game exactly?
His corpse is referred to, but not found in the game. His skull however is a haunted collectible, and is found in the Central Park Cemetery.

Image
#4961693
Kingpin wrote: November 26th, 2021, 4:54 am
RealGhostbusterJay wrote: November 26th, 2021, 4:31 amI'm personally for the VG being part of it, Shandors corpse is found where in the game exactly?
His corpse is referred to, but not found in the game. His skull however is a haunted collectible, and is found in the Central Park Cemetery.

Image
This cna be solved saying this is not his "Real" Skull, just a Token or a Skull that has his course or essence so he cna still be attached to our world if he dies. Maybe thats the token that allows him to return from the gateway to his body and that's why his body never ages.
#4961772
Yeah...Haunted collectables are more of a trophy. Like some of them and where they're found is purely gameplay as opposed to story. There's a Ghostbuster DVD found in Shandor Castle so...
I mean as mentioned if people want the game to be in their head cannon they can, if not then there's ways to do either.
Last edited by RealGhostbusterJay on November 27th, 2021, 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
#4961774
dantonvfx wrote: November 26th, 2021, 10:09 am ...and that's why his body never ages.
He didn't age because his body was dead, a presered corpse.

IDW did some thing similar in haunted America storyline wth Marie Laveau who was implied to be dead, yet walking around, appearing to be alive. Shandor however obviously needed gozer's power to animate.
#4961907
Crossposting this because it seems more relevant here:

Doesn't Shandor Island alone mess with the canon of Afterlife? In the game, it's owned by the Shandors for centuries until Ivo dies and it sinks in the river and disappears from this realm.

You would think he wanted to buried there instead of near the mine, as it descended right into the spirit world, and you know is his ancestral home in the videogame.
#4961911
There are lots of ways you could explain away the Shandor inconsistencies if you wanted both TVG and Afterlife to be canon.

For me, some elements of TVG were essentially GB3 and I don’t feel Afterlife alone brings enough new, quality ideas to the table to supercede TVG. Future films may change that.

If they’d gone with a different villain then TVG could’ve remained canon - another downside of bringing Gozer back.
#4961914
Alphagaia wrote: November 28th, 2021, 11:28 am Crossposting this because it seems more relevant here:

Doesn't Shandor Island alone mess with the canon of Afterlife? In the game, it's owned by the Shandors for centuries until Ivo dies and it sinks in the river and disappears from this realm.

You would think he wanted to buried there instead of near the mine, as it descended right into the spirit world, and you know is his ancestral home in the videogame.
Maybe his followers disobeyed orders. Or maybe he wanted his body away from New York as a back up plan.
#4961917
Oh, I am loving this topic. Okay everyone here is making some incredible points. From both sides ie those that say the game is not canon and those that believe that it is. Both have great evidence to back their points too. I am one the the people to consider the game to be canon.

The only way I can make it work in my head canon is to take liberties, because I can't ignore what Kingpin brought up with Shandor's skull. In order to make the game canon is that the skull actually belongs to one of Shandor's followers and not really Ivo's. I mean when they find the artifact they could be wrong about who's skull it is.

As a matter of fact the Astec Death Whistle that Egon has in his place reminds me of the artifacts that you pick up in the game LOL!

Like someone else here said there is enough evidence on both sides where people could cherry pick off stuff to make the events of the game canon or not canon. For me there is that funny line in the game when the Ghostbusters are on Shandor Island Egon starts admiring the machinary on the island and Winston says, "Stay in the light Egon." Then Egon says, "Trying Winston." Funny line, but I can see Egon getting a little obsessed after the events of the game. After stopping Ivo Shandor and getting rid of what remained of the ghostly minions of the Gozarian Cult, I can even understand Ray not believing Egon. :):):)
mrmichaelt liked this
#4961946
Alphagaia wrote: November 28th, 2021, 11:28 am Crossposting this because it seems more relevant here:

Doesn't Shandor Island alone mess with the canon of Afterlife? In the game, it's owned by the Shandors for centuries until Ivo dies and it sinks in the river and disappears from this realm.

You would think he wanted to buried there instead of near the mine, as it descended right into the spirit world, and you know is his ancestral home in the videogame.
The exact quote I believe was "when the last Shandor living on the island died" then Ghost World claimed the island. So there's confirmation the "last Shandor" was Ivo. There's no mention of it being an ancestral home, just the Shandor family owned it for generations and in 1860, a castle was built on it, then Ivo mainly used it as a "refuge, lab, and temple for the Cult to worship Gozer." To me, it sounded like the island was their Martha's Vineyard.
#4961956
I still say the Ghostbusters survived the 90s and went defunct sometime in the 2000s, although you can debate how early or how late, maybe 2008 is a bit late, I'm liking 2001 as the year to be honest.

dantonvfx wrote: November 26th, 2021, 10:09 am
Kingpin wrote: November 26th, 2021, 4:54 am

His corpse is referred to, but not found in the game. His skull however is a haunted collectible, and is found in the Central Park Cemetery.

Image
This cna be solved saying this is not his "Real" Skull, just a Token or a Skull that has his course or essence so he cna still be attached to our world if he dies. Maybe thats the token that allows him to return from the gateway to his body and that's why his body never ages.
The easiest way to explain this away is to just say it's a forgery, it doesn't even have a beard, so it could easily just be some random skull claimed to be the skull of Ivo, maybe to intentionally throw anyone off the trail of the real location of his body.

There's a legend that the secret society Skull & Bones has the skull of Geronimo, but I believe the family of Geronimo says that's not the case, so they probably have a skull that they claim is the skull of Geronimo, it's easy to claim a skull is a skull of anyone unless someone is able to analyze dental records or whatever.

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