So after the Paypal claim he came back to answer.... and we got to an argue because he could not even give me an estimate after telling me last Friday 29th that he got all the materials and pieces he needed to build it. And that he needed to Paint, assemble, wire, etc etc... And of course, because that meant it was not "About to complete" on September. BTW I had to ask 5 Times for an ETA, he ignored all the times my questions, until I got Mad at him and focused my emial on these clear questions, saying he is not even able to answer them for 5th time. The he said "Soon"....
After I complained because he could not give me an eta and just a "Soon", he told me he was not a "Soothsayer" and could not give me an eta. I got mad about it and replied that I can't believe he treats the customers that way, and I told him I can't believe he doesn't know his building times, and at least have an aprox eta for how long its gonna take him now that he has all he needs , he Replied to me in a really BAD WAY with bad manners that my Pack would be ready to Ship this Friday October 5th. But he would not ship anything with a paypal claim, so I have to cancel it. He was very Rude to be honest he even said: "YOU ARE A COMPLETE PAIN IN THE ASS" because I want it NOW. When All I'm asking is for a damn ETA, and based on my experience and what I found on internet (and told him about all the cases), and based on that he is lying all the time with the status, disappearing for 3 weeks, ignoring my questions and sendindg Bulk emails (same to my friend that bought a proton pack by my recommendation) and not hitting the targets... I don't think I'm asking for anything crazy.... . Funnily, my Paypal claim ends on Saturday 6th (one day after his new "deadline"... what a coincidence, one day after his new eta)
I tried to settle things down and put some more trust on him. Explained all very polite and detailed of why we got to were we are and that he had to take a step back.
He replied very rude also, saying he doesn't have time on his life to read the Novel I wrote, and asked if I have the patience to wait for the Proton pack or not.
I replied him that I can't trust him anymore, and that I'm not gonna cancel my claim since that will get me expose t lose the money and not get anything. So I was nice enough to offer him an alternative. IF IT'S True that he has my Proton Pack on Friday and he send me Pictures and Videos, then I will let Paypal refund me on Saturday, and do another Purchase with him. That way he has the money, he can ship without a claim, so he is covered, but I am too because if he does not ship or what I receive its garbage that doesn't look like what I bought from his website... I can still claim and get my money back.
Its almost Thursday and I'm still waiting for his answer. Will see if he send Pictures/Videos on Friday. I guess if he wants the sell he will do, but if its all smoke and doesn't have a proton pack he will ignore me and loose the money. The thing is that I recommended that store to a friend, and he is also following my steps, so if he fails me, he will lose 2 sells.
I'm not even sure why I'm still giving this little trust on him tbh. I guess I really want a Proton pack. But this will show to the rest of people how this guy runs his "Store" and hopefully avoid this problem in the future.
UPDATE:
For who ever wants to know a recap of my experience with him, this is the email I sent him to try to calm things down and make him take a step back on his Rudeness and bad manners. And he literally ignored it and called me "PAIN IN THE ASS". Here is a recap of my full experience with VIKINGPROPS (Hopefully helsp someone):
Hi,
I have not rallied anyone to do the same, I think Werner has his own will and decision and he can decide for himself based on his experience too.
Okay, I think things are going sideways and I'm gonna try to explain my side of the situation, so you understand how I felt, the same way I understand your situation.
-We had a great touch base at the beginning, you were super responsive, and everything went great. Since I did the order, I never Bugged you until September 16th, that was 1 month since I ordered, you told me before the purchase that the construction time would be 3-5 weeks, and on September 1rst when I paid the extra animated lights/sounds that would be in 3-4 weeks done, so it was that time and I just wanted to catch up and see how it was going, and I think I was friendly and polite all the time..
-You answered me the next day (or even same day) that it was about to be completed. I replied that That was Awesome and thank you so much.
-Since you told me that was about to be done, I contacted you 10 days later asking if there was any update, since you told me that was about to complete and we were getting close to the deadline I had, but I was polite and nice all the time.
-You replied to me that you had the battery shortage, and I replied to you politely if you thought that would still be done and at my place for October 15th and if there was a possibility to check other stuff in pictures to get approved meanwhile, so we could get all ready before the batteries come. You replied that It would be on the 15th, and that some work was still needed like Final Paint, decals and cosmetic tubes/wires after the internal battery wiring is complete.
-After that (was on sept the 26th) I did not bug you again or ask you for more, since I understood the situation you explained to me, you granted me that would still be delivered by the 15th and wanted to give your time and space to do what you needed to do.
-On October 5th (10 days later) I sent you another email, and I think I was polite, saying that I just wanted to check the status since we were just 10 days away from the 15th. Nothing else, I'm not pushing, I'm just asking for updates for something you told me was going to happen on time. I still trusted you here.
-You did reply 3 days later, october 8th (and as you can see I did not message you more times before your reply or pushed for anything), on this reply you said you were doing the best to wrap it up and get it ready to ship. After this I did not message you, did not push for anything or did not ask for "When it's gonna be done", I just trusted you and let you do your thing.
-3 days later, october 11th you asked for my shipping info.
-On october 12th I replied to you with my shipping address. You can see that I've been trusting you during this whole time, I have not been pushi, I've been polite and I've trusted you on everything you said to me. Since you asked for my shipping address and it was October 12th I knew we were running out of time, so I "Understood" The pack was completed and about to ship, or almost completed for real this time, so I asked if there were any pictures I could see of the proton pack already to check the weathering? just in case you were going to ship rapidly to get it on time. I was not asking for anything crazy and I was polite with you.
-The next day, October 13th I didn't see any reply from you, and just 2 days away from the 15th, and knowing you are in an advances schedule (so for you was almost the 14th) I was not seeing any viable way I could get the Proton pack delivered by the 15th as you promised several times. SO let's be honest, I was starting to freak out with the situation. Mostly because I commited to bring a Proton pack for Display to 3 events, and I was seeing how this was not going to happen, and how I would explain to the organization that will not make it. So I sent you an email saying literally this:
Hey,
How is it going? I'm sorry, I don't want to be annoying, but I'm really freaking out at this point. Last time we really talked about real updates was September 26th, you confirmed that the Proton Pack would be delivered before Friday October 15th (I have some events that weekend that need to bring it with me), we are on October 13th, and I'm still waiting for real updates or Pictures to check the product from you, I haven't seen the weathering, I don;t know if you did too much, or just a little as I ask, or how it looks in general.
I hope you can send pictures today, check that everything is fine and then ship it on Ultra Mega Super Express UPS or DHL, because otherwise I don't know how it's gonna be here for the 15th, that is what we talked about in August.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Cheers
-As you can see, I'm just asking for a real update, and extend to you that I'm starting to freak out because I don't see how this can be here on time. You told me you were doing the best to wrap it up, and asked me for shipping address, so it was stated that the thing was about to ship, but not getting reply for you during these 3 days, and getting as close to the 15th, it started to freak me out, but as You see I'm polite I'm saying that I'm sorry and don;t want to be annoying, but I needed an update from you, and its true that I got a bit pushy but I think it's nothing weird due the situation and lack of real update.
-The 14th was the same as the previous days, no answer from you. For you it was 15th already. I then saw clearly that the proton pack would not be here on time. And that frustrated me a lot. But still I just sent you an email asking for any updates. Nothing else, and was polite.
-October 15th. For you 16th already. I have not got any word from you. You knew the 15th is for when I needed it, and you told me several times that it would be there for the 15th. The LEAST I would expect from you, or from someone that can not hit the deadline/goals on a Service/product or job is to at least contact the client to let them know that sadly, it will not be on time for X reasons. I can be frustrated, I can be mad, but at least I would know that you care and that you are trying your best. I can understand the situation, if you are still waiting for materials or if your workshop had to shut down for any tech issue, or if you got sick and can not work, or any other reasons, I would have understood it. But I was in the dark, you were not clear with the updates, I did not know if you got the materials or not, or what was the status of the proton pack. All I knew was that a few days ago you were doing the best to wrap it up and shipp, and 2 days later you asked me for the shipping address. So that is worse than knowing that there was a tech issue and will not hit the deadline. If you had contacted me and given me a real update I would have been frustrated, but I would understand, and would wait, hoping to at least get it by the other next 2 events. or at least 1. Same way I've been understanding your situation and trusting you until now.
But no contact form you. You disappeared. You left a client in the dark and alone when it was supposed to get the product/delivery. That was THE WORST part of all this, because again, I can understand that you get delayed for stuff that you are not under control, but the thing that you did not care for the client (in this case me) to even shoot an email saying it was not done yet and it was going to be delayed... That fired me up. And more even because mid september "it was about to be completed", 11th october "you were doing the best to wrap it up and ship", 12th you ask for shipping address.... I mean, all seemed to point that the Proton pack was really almost ready if not ready. ANd then you disappeared and ignored me on my deadline. How would you feel about this if it happens to you? How would you feel if you are expecting your boss to pay you on the payday, and he assures you it's gonna pay you that day, that day arrived, you are not paid, and your boss is missing in action for a few days. I'm sure you understand what I mean and How I feel at this moment.
I explained in the email that I did not understand why it was not ready yet and how it could have 1 month delay, but that I could understand that some components were delayed. And I told you CLEARLY that this was not what Annoyed me What ANNOYED ME was your lack of professionalism for everything stated in the above paragraphs. Still I don;t think I was not Polite, but I told you the truth abo9utt he situation and how I felt about your professionality. and then I told you again that I can understand that things cnas go off the rails, but that your lack of response in these moments were what was killing me, so I decided to be direct and ask Direct questions with EASY answers:
Again, I understand some things can go off the rails, but it's that easy to keep the client updated, and give new estimated dates when you see you can't hit the one, and not ignore the client on its desperation.
I've tried to be patient, message you to ask for updates with not too much luck or with not too much info back, and this whole situation it's making me pretty angry, mostly the lack of response by your side.
-What is THE REAL status of the Proton pack?
-Are the BATTERIES there already?
-HOW LONG MORE is it gonna take?
-WHEN it is going to be DELIVERED?
-Are you gonna use a DHL or FEDEX Fast 1-3 day Shipping at least as a bit of compensation for the delay?
I don't think I was asking too much on my previous emails, just to have the product I paid for when we agreed (that was more than enough time) and get updates from you with dates, pictures and status)
I already know I've LOST this weekend event, but I still have 2 more events the next upcoming weekends (22nd and 29th). It is going to be here at least by then?
Looking forward to hearing back from you
Cheers
-I waited 1 FULL WEEK before message you again (October 22nd) and didn't bug you meanwhile, hoping that you would reply, thinking that maybe you got sick, or something major happened. SO I gave you some space and Trust, yet I was not happy with your professionality. This was the email:
Hi,
it's been a week since my last email, and no reply from you, almost 2 weeks since you don;t reply my several emails. Could you please reply to me?
-What is THE REAL status of the Proton pack?
-Are the BATTERIES there already?
-HOW LONG MORE is it gonna take?
-WHEN it is going to be DELIVERED?
-Are you gonna use a DHL or FEDEX Fast 1-3 day Shipping at least as a bit of compensation for the delay?
Cheers
I don't think I'm not being polite here, even knowing my frustration, desperation, and how annoyed I was with the whole situation.
-Its October 25th. It has been more than HALF A MONTH since I didn't hear back from you. Our deadline was more than passed, and yet I ask politely for updates. Your lack of response and unprofessionality makes me suspicious. I started to do some research on the internet, and I don;t like what I find. Lots of people in the same case as me, Proton packs never delivered, money never refunded, you disappearing, you saying that was shipped but was not, you promessing to ship, or saying that was about to complete but was not and all that over and over and over. ALL WAS THE SAME as what is happening to me. Your ETSY store was closed, I could not find A SINGLE good review for your product anywhere. NOT EVEN 1. There was no way to contact you, I didn't even know your name by then. Common, you are gonna tell me that my reaction from now is not more than Justified?
-End of October 25th, no reply during that day either. I decided to escalate it to paypal, and I think I let you know in a polite way too:
Seeing the situation where we are, I've asked Paypal for a Refund and I will contact another friend that made an order with you 2 weeks after recommended by me so he is aware of all this and he can ask paypal for a refund also before the Buyer Protection ends.
Now, after all this recap, I hope you can understand HOW I felt and HOW I FEEL about all this situation. UNTIL this point I don;t think I've not been polite, even when I was complaining about professionality I was also adding that I can understand that situations cna go off rail or there can be delays. And yes, I explained my situation to Werner, because I recommend your store to him. He bought a Proton pack because I sent him your link and I think the least I could do is update him with my situation. And by the way, he was as Surprised and frustrated as I was of seeing all this.
-October 26th, NOW Suddenly, after I escalated this to paypal, you quickly appeared again. ANd you explain to me that you are a small shop, the delays on components stuff and that your paypal is suspended. Now, if you had a Battery delay, and 10 days later you tell me you are doing your best to wrap it up and shipp it soon, I understood or it implies that the batteries are in already and you are working on the proton pack, if not you would have told me that you are still waiting for them. SO the thing about delays in components didn't had sense at this point. But what was more interesting was that you sent almost the same message to Werner. SO knowing my frustration, knowing the emails I sent you asking you for an update for something I paid for and was supposed to be done and at home long ago, It made me even more Angry that you did not reply to any of my questions/updated status/ and just sent me a Bulk email. That confirmed to me what I was suspecting, the customer care was nowhere to be seen. So I replied in accordance to that Bulk email, and I think at this Point, and after trusting you and give you your space I am well Deserved to be ANGRY with you and with the situation, and I think based on the situation I'm still Polite, and Inform you of the actual situation on my end, something you don't do on yours:
That is a great Bulk email answer, that actually does not respond to any of my questions I did to you several times, and neither seems to be really addressed to me only.
As I said, I escalated this issue to paypal to get a refund. During these 3 weeks you have disappeared. I had enough time to find other customers that paid for the proton pack and never got it, nor the refund. All the cases were exactly the same as mine, same "It's about to be done", "we are waiting for batteries", "will be delivered on time" "its shipped", and none got pictures or tracking, theys top receiving answers and of course never got the Product.
I remember you My Proton pack was "About to complete" more than 1 month ago. Never seen pictures, never got any reply back from you. And of course, you missed all the Events where I needed it to display, and as we agree, you could not hit the deadline.
As I said, I recommended your shop to a friend after I paid mine, he is aware of everything that's going on and he will probably escalate this to paypal knowing all we know
-October 27th, You reply to my desperation, my disconcertion, my "No" updates and my frustration with this email:
All sales final. Due to personal configuration, customization, or design these unique hand made replicas are non-returnable. No returns or cancellations will be accepted.
Thank you for understanding and patience!
This was the last drop that made the water overflow the Cup. Seriously? I'm explaining to you my situation, my feelings, my desperation, and yet this is your answer? A Bulk email and a "Sales are final"???????? This made me explode. And Who would not. Again, stop for a second, switch position, and tell me in my situation you would not. I go back to the previous example, your Boss didn't pay you on your payday, disappeared 2 weeks, and when you complained to HR, he appeared again just saying empty words and didn't speak at all about your missing salary. Seriously?
-I reply with this:
I paid for a Sale to be delivered before October 15th. Not made it. End line. It's all on Paypals now, they have all the emails, conversations and stuff they need where you agreed to deliver before the 15th. Where it's shown how you disappeared for 3 weeks, and could not commit to the agreement we made when purchasing the product. And I believe that I'm not the only one with this complaint on paypal for what my research did.
You had time enough to speak with me, instead of keep promising that the proton pack was about to complete more than 1 month ago, no pics, no nothing, no delivery on our date.
I don't have too much to say tbh, I think I've been talking a lot during the past 3 weeks and I'm still waiting for any response from you to anything I asked. Same as other few people that are still waiting for their proton packs for years or months. End of the line.
-You literally IGNORED the content of my message again and replied the same as before:
Thank you for understanding!
All sales final. Due to personal configuration, customization, or design these unique hand made replicas are non-returnable. No returns or cancellations will be accepted.
Let's stop here for a second. DO you think this is normal? If I had a customer complaining, or asking for an update for a product I should have delivered 3 weeks ago, the least I could do is listen to him, and answer all his questions, explain the situation and try to make him understand why this is happening. But you no, you just ignored all my questions again, all my explanations of why I made a claim to paypal and stuck with "THE SALE IS FINAL" and that's all. That reconfirmed my suspicions about you, and about what I've read on the internet and what the people I contacted told me. And that my friend FIRED ME UP way more that what I was. I had to ask you 2 more times the SPECIFIC questions I did in the past and you ignored a total of 5 times:
-What is THE REAL status of the Proton pack?
-Are the BATTERIES there already?
-HOW LONG MORE is it gonna take?
-WHEN it is going to be DELIVERED?
-Are you gonna use a DHL or FEDEX Fast 1-3 day Shipping at least as a bit of compensation for the delay?
Again, understanding the situation. DO you think I'm not polite or I am like "I kid that asks are we there yet?" because I'M ASKING FOR A REAL UPDATE ON MY ORDER THAT IS LONG DUE ITS DELIVERY DATE and there is NO WAY to get because you ignore my messages or reply with other stuff?? SO after disappearing for almost 3 weeks, after ignoring my messages with Bulk replies, I'm being not polite or pushy because I'm just trying to find out what the hell is going on and what's the status of my order? Seriously? You Blame me for having Werne open a Paypal Dispute, but you have to blame yourself for that, because he has seen our email conversation, and saw the same as I saw. How you were avoiding answering any of the "status" questions. And that's why he filed a claim with paypal.
A normal Store/Person would inform you if there is something missing, if there are delays, if there are problems that affect production. They will not ignore your messages, disappear for 3 weeks, keep ignoring your questions and reply with bulk messages or evading the status order. Do you understand that all this situation where we are is your Fault? If instead of disappearing, on the 15th you have had contacted me and informed me that you were not only missing batteries, you were missing more components, or there were 5 orders ahead of me, or that something happened and you would not been able to delivery by the date we agreed, I would never do a research about you and find all what I found, I would never open a Paypal dispute, and I would never be as Angry as I am with you and this situation. I would have been frustrated, for sure, but I would have understood the situation, and at least I would have seen you care for the customer and you are keeping me up with the status of my order.
The you finnaly repleid tot he QUESTION:
Hi Dani,
There are many complex stages of building a proton pack with electronics, especially if you want it to function correctly and look excellent. Also when your pack parts are cast, drilled, sanded and given their first coat of black paint; they are ready for assembly. The next step is to build the electronic system (a lot of soldering). If a structural component (MDF, urethane plastic, sound chip, battery, speaker, paint, ALICE frame) is not on-hand it holds the assembly up. So Your pack can remain 70-90% complete until we have everything to complete assembly.
Also I do not build these IN BULK. This is a small workshop with hand and bench tools. These are made to order individually and typically materials are purchased per order. This is why your pal, Werner may have a longer wait than you, his components were ordered after yours.
At this point you remind me of a kid in the back seat of the car saying, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"
I see you have attached a telephone number; if you like I can give you a call?
I reply this:
Hi,
All that you explain has sense and I understand, but...
I don't think I'm asking that much. I did an order that was suposed to be deliveried before October 15th. It was not, you desapeared 3 weeks, meanwhile you were gone I've heard so many histories similar to my case where they were not getting their proton pack at the end, apart of the internet stuff I've managed to contact some people in person and could speak with 3 that did not get the Proton pack neither refund, one on 2019, one on 2020 and one in this year. So these are no old stuff.
I've just been asking for an eta, I don't think I'm askonf for nothing crazy or weird. You know how many orders you have before me, and how long it can take for them, or how long it can take for mine to be build so you have to know an eta more or less of how long it might take. I was just asking for that, and seeing all I explained before I think its more than a legit question tbh.
But yet you can't give me an answer :$
And then you repleid this 2 days later:
Hi Dani,
Your proton pack alone with animated lights could be ready to ship by this Friday.
However, I will not ship anything as long as there is an open PayPal dispute because I made our no cancellation, no return policy even more clear for you than it is already stated on our website and you have ignored it and frozen our PayPal with your bullshit dispute. In addition you have rallied other customers (that we cherish) to do the same.
You are a COMPLETE PAIN IN THE ASS! If even 1/4 of my customers were like you, I wouldn't offer these anymore at all. Thankfully you are alone.
Even Werner (who you convinced to take action against our PayPal too) is more polite and understanding than you.
You ARE the little girl from Willy WOnka that wants everything NOW. (pic attached)
And now, 2 days ago, that I asked for an ETA more or less for several times, you literally said you were not a "soothsayer" and could not give me an eta 2 days ago, you had now all the components, and you have all ready, but you could not give me an eta.. Now you can, and you tell me this Friday. What has changed in these 2 days? Why could you not give an eta on friday and today you can? I'm just trying to understand you and the situation, because I never encountered this before. I made custom orders for Gizmos, PKE meters, Traps, and NO ONE had any issue with me, and the opposite way, and if there were delays (that there were) they would explain to me and I would understand. Even the PKE meter malfunctioned and I got a replacement. SO I'm just trying to understand you, but you are not making it easy.
Obviously, at this point, I don't trust you. Neither Werner. And I think we have a LOT of reasons. I paid a lot of money, money that I can not afford to lose now, and if I cancel the Claim, I will not be able to claim it any more, so I will be exposed to not receiving the proton pack at all. SO I guess we are at a dead end, you are not shipping while having a claim, and I can;t cancel without guarantees that I will receive the product I paid for in good condition, or even receive it.
The only way I can find, and it means having to put some trust in you again (and I think I'm burning my hand here...) is to keep going with the claim, Paypal will end up refunding me this next Saturday I believe. If it's true that you have my proton pack done by Friday, and you sent me pictures and videos, The only way I can think of is that we can try to solve it by making a new purchase. If I receive the Proton Pack at all, and it's as described and shown in good condition we are in peace. If I end up not receiving the Proton pack at least I still have the chance to not lose my money thru paypal and start a new claim to get my money back. That is the only situation where I can guarantee that I will not lose my money for nothing. And I'm not even sure if I should be suggesting this with our current situation tbh.
I hope with this email you understand my situation and you can get on my skin.
Cheers