By venkman71
#4901885
To paraphrase the great Hattori Hanzo.....

"I've done what I swore an oath to God twenty-eight years ago, (not really but it sounds fierce), to never do again. I've created "something that catches ghosts". And in that purpose, I was a success. I've done this because, philosophically, I'm sympathetic to your aim. I can tell you, with no ego, this is my finest pack. If, on your journey, you should encounter God, God will be neutronized, resulting in complete particle reversal, causing all life as you know it to stop instantaneously and causing every molecule in your body to explode at the speed of light."

And by I, I mean the incredible build team, Sony and Anovos.

Here are the pics....

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Hope you guys like. I'll answer any questions about the build that I can.

-V71
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By Mercifull
#4901888
It looks stunningly beautiful. But very expensive, especially for those in the UK.

I've worked it out how much it would cost to import because I am sad. (Values in £ are approximately converted from USD)

In £s the pack costs about £2,220. There is a "handling fee" of £8.90. Delivery is £230 (minimum, there is a more expensive option if you want it faster).

Because the value is over £650 you have to pay both import and customs fees. Duty is 2.5% (about £62) and then you have to pay VAT including on the shipping so that's another £490 or so. Then there will be the customs handling fee of about £16 to pay to whoever is the designated courier.

Expect to pay somewhere in the region of £3,025 to get your hands on this Spengler replica.
By venkman71
#4901889
Yeah, shipping overseas always seems to be an achilles heel. I can totally understand your frustration. I appreciate the kind words. This was definitely my swan-song build. Short of rebuilding the firehouse in my backyard or ACTUALLY battling Gozer on an NYC rooftop, I'm really not sure how much further I can go in this awesome hobby.

Assuming we get the greenlight for clearance, it is the teams intention to release a catalog of reference photos from the build. We discovered a lot of amazing stuff, especially concerning the workings of the aluminum hero thrower.

-V 71 :cool:
#4901890
Amazing that people from this board are involved with the project, it looks very accurate!

From a builder's perspective, I'm curious if any of the hero pack information (pictures, measurements, etc.) is planned to be released by Anovos or you as a part of this project? The only hero reference we've had (I believe) are the re-cast hero/stunt packs that had been heavily modified from what I understand. I get that Anovos is in this to make a profit but it seems they are pulling somewhat from this community and may be interested in helping us out.

I guess an alternative would be for someone to purchase one and extrapolate the data themselves for the community.

Sorry if this is off-topic, I just have a small spark of hope left that we'll someday get a definitive set of measurements for a hero pack and this seems to be real close.
By venkman71
#4901892
We are absolutely intending or releasing ALL of our reference pending approval. Worst case, we may be able to release SOME. It's up to Sony as it's still their intellectual property but honestly, it's good for the franchise, good for fans, keeps it alive and people interested.
I can't imagine them getting concerned about a handful of hardcore builders looking through 300 pictures of rusty old props for new clues but then again, I am not a master of copyright law. ;)

But yeah, we'd like to do the mic drop of info dumps for the fans as our final act. :walterpeck:

-V 71
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By Kingpin
#4901901
venkman71 wrote:Assuming we get the greenlight for clearance, it is the teams intention to release a catalog of reference photos from the build. We discovered a lot of amazing stuff, especially concerning the workings of the aluminum hero thrower.
You had my interest, now you have my attention, good sir. :)

It's a beautiful recreation, replicated warts-and-all, and I imagine those who do go for it will be very happy with the final result. :)
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By Kingpin
#4901904
I felt the need to put some of my thoughts into words following some of the negative blowback on social media. This isn't an attempt to excuse some of the things with Anovos, such as the delays with ketting the kits out there, I am concerned there's more assumption than facts behind the negative remarks regarding the Legacy Kit.

***

There's been a lot of talk about Anovos and their "Spengler Legacy" Proton Pack. A part of the talk that's spun out of it has been the unhappy response from some fans at learning a screen-used Proton Pack was dismantled and cast to make the Legacy kits.

As a post-face before I get any further into my feelings on this matter, Sean and Vinny, the two people most publically associated with this project are people I consider friends. I've interacted with them as community members, and in the case of Vinny we were both once on the same forum moderation staff. I like to think I have a good idea of their character, but for the purposes of full-disclosure, I wll also acknowlege that I will have a certain degree of bias in favour of them.

So with that being said, let's get stuck in.

The Pack has not been destroyed

With both this announcement, and the original teaser announcement, there had been angry responses from fans, with choice remarks stating the screen-used Proton Pack had been "destroyed", "ripped-apart" or was "no longer the Spengler Pack".

The first two remarks are angered knee-jerks. Yes, the Pack in question was dismantled, it still exists (it was put back together after the parts were molded), it wasn't ripped-up like some house going through a remodel. Sean and Vinny have spent years building their own Proton Packs, so I am willing to believe they know how to take one apart and cause the least amount of loss to it.

It's also worth noting that a lot of the remarks are being made without a full understanding of the efforts that were undertaken to carefully dismantle the prop. Anovos/the guys who dismantled it have given their assurances that a museum-approach was taken, and while I can understand some of the angered fans being skeptical in the absense of photographic proof... That isn't permission to launch into hyperbolic claims of the prop being destroyed, or torn to pieces, when there's no proof of that.

I don't know how it was dismantled, so I'm not aware of what (if any) elements had to be cut or drilled in order to allow Anovos to reproduce them, but I feel some consideration needs to be applied to the various components of the prop. Were major elements lost, irreparably damaged or outright destroyed... I could then fully understand the anger, but let's take a moment to consider what may have been changed/removed/replaced? One post remarks that rivets and weld lines would have to have been removed, another remarked at the loss of some of the original paint on the prop.

Of the three, the one I would be most concerned about is the weld lines... But there isn't actually anything indicating any weld lines have been lost - so far that's only an assumption, without any proof to back it up.

As for small bits of paint and rivets, I don't consider these particularly significant. A rivet is a rivet, regardless of whether it's 10 or 30 years old. It also feels, disproportionate to get angry over some of the paint potentially being lost, considering how much paint has already been lost from the prop.

Context

Something to consider about this prop is that it's 33 years old, and this isn't the first time it's been taken apart.

By my estimation (and I'm certain I'm rounding down), the Spengler Super Hero has been partially (or completely) dismantled on three separate occasions.

It was dismantled 27/28 years ago so it could be retrofitted for the production of Ghostbusters II.

It was dismantled around 5 years ago, where the bumper was reproduced by a different member of the community, not affiliated with Anovos.

It was dismantled earlier this year so that it could provide the basis for the Spengler Legacy kit.

By 1989, the Super Hero Pack had already gone through some changes/modifications that meant it was no-longer identical to how it appeared in 1984 in the original Ghostbusters. In the 33 years since the original film, the Pack has been on display both at Planet Hollywood in New York and in Sony's corporate headquarters in Los Angeles (the latter location saw it displayed in direct sunlight).

When the Pack wasn't on display, it was in storage in the Sony archives... Which is likely where it has accumulated most of the scratches and damage the prop exhibits.

(Some fans were granted access to photograph it about 7 years ago, and even then the poor condition of the prop was clear to see. You may see for yourself in the photos they took:

http://www.gbfans.com/equipment/reference/33/
http://www.gbfans.com/equipment/reference/34/)

In 2010, the Super Hero Pack was missing paint in several spots, some of the labels were either badly damaged/worn, or missing completely. The clear plastic barrel tube, similar to the same element on another 1984-era screen-used Proton Pack, had a habit of falling loose. There's rust on some of the metal elements, and some of the screws/bolts holding the components in have been lost (though it should be noted, a number of them were replaced in 1989)

Whilst these props are beloved by the fans, to Sony that's still all they are: film props, studio assets - in some way it's a mixed blessing they've been held onto this long, rather than sold or destroyed (though it should be noted that some of the Proton Pack props have been auctioned off in previous years).

The Super Hero prop was in poor condition when Sean and Vinny were given access to it, and by the rationale of some of the angered fans, it had already lost its "unchanged" status decades ago.

Further Context

One of the reasons I feel the angered reaction is unfair and unjustified, is the fact that Anovos/Sean/Vinny were approached by Sony to reproduce the Pack. I'd prefer to be an idealist rather than cynnical in studying the motives of the people who've made the Legacy Kit, and that they didn't go into it with the intention of enriching themselves (Even at $3,000... After production/material costs and... I presume, paying something towards Sony - the studio won't be doing this without expecting some sort of cut - the Packs aren't going to sell in such quantities and earn such a revenue that they'll be able to retire from it.)

I honestly believe they produced the kit so that they could offer the best option out there. Considering there are fans in the prop replication community who do offer sub-standard kits/parts, and one notable one who presents the claim his kits are studio-sourced, when they aren't, the Anovos Legacy kit may help to take the wind out of the sails of the unscrupulous fans.

Whether we like it or not, as long as Sony owns the Ghostbusters property and film props, it can do what it likes with them. If, however, they grant the rare opportunity to well-respected, experienced fans to take a look into one of the screen-used props, and to reproduce that, shouldn't that be something to be excited about?

Are we unable to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they did a good job at taking the Pack apart, mold it, and put it back together again? What have they done in the past that would suggest they'd do anything but employ the most care and dedication?

Again, I appreciate I'm biased by my friendship.

I just don't feel the lack of faith in Sean and Vinny is justified.

Now, that's not to say the lack of faith in Anovos isn't justified... I can understand and sympathise with those who are frustrated and unhappy with how long they've been waiting for their kits, I've been in an identical position (I was also waiting on a Proton Pack kit) - however, I'm not here to defent Anovos' delays.

Conclusion - This wasn't meant to be an essay, sorry

I can understand the anger and upset to a degree, but I don't agree with it.
I feel a lot of it is misdirected, and misguided. There's been a lot of assumptions made without any real knowledge about the techniques and approach that was used to dismantle the pack.

We Ghostbusters fans are definitely a passionate group, but sometimes we do let our passions get the better of us - the last few years have been proof enough of that.

There's a lot of stuff we don't know.
What we do know is this:

•Sony approached Anovos with the idea of using one of the original Proton Packs from 1984, the prop that featured the most detailed electronics seen in the film, to produce a rule of officially-licenced Proton Pack replicas.

•Sean Bishop and Vincenzo330, who have a couple of decades of combined prop building experience - and noted participants in the Ghostbusters fan community, are brought on to spearhead the project.

•The Super Hero Pack is dismantled, and a majority of the components are molded so that resin copies can be made from them.

•The Super Hero Pack is reassembled and returned to Sony.

-There may be a few more things that can be said with certainty, but those are the most notable points.

TL:DR - Too long, didn't read

So to summarise:

•Sony approached Anovos to reproduce one of the original Proton Pack props - this process would require some degree of disassembly.

•The screen-used Proton Pack hasn't been "destroyed" or "torn apart", it was dismantled, molded, and then put back together again. Anovos and those involved with the project have given assurances a museum-like approach was used for the assembly/disassembly stages.

•The screen-used Proton Pack was already in a somewhat poor condition when it was loaned to Anovos, and had been dismantled to various degrees over the past 30 years.

•There's more assumptions than verified facts in a lot of the accusations/conclusions made against Anovos, and how it handled the screen-used prop.
User avatar
By Lowberg
#4901909
Looks amazing! I wish I could pull the trigger but I already have 3 proton packs, 2 of which are full hero builds :(

Are you and Vince going to be casting all the parts for Anovos and assembling them?

I as well am hoping you guys get the green light to posting all of the reference pics for us nerds. Lot of construction mysteries that I'm sure have been discovered :) Any big surprises that you guys found? I'm still amazed at the amount of stuff the community has "gotten right" over the years from limited photos and measurements.
User avatar
By Belmont78
#4901915
Sean. Any idea if the proton pack kits will eventually be sold assembled and what that price point range might be? Unsure if you're incharge of that project as well. Incredible job with the legacy by the way.
By venkman71
#4901916
THANK YOU, Kingpin.

you may be biased but everything you said was on point and correct. Anyone who thinks we didn't mark, bag-n-tag every hex bolt, clippard fitting and elbow doesn't know us. It looked like an archaeological dig in the shop for weeks. When it wasn't being worked on, it was locked in the pelican case it came in and locked in the spare room.

Let me assure you it was NOT the first time that pack had been "ripped" apart but it wasn't ripped apart by US. We lovingly disassembled it like it was The Ark of the Covenant. There was stuff missing, rattling around inside, AND it had been modified for display by, (I THINK), a planet Hollywood and put back together in a very quick manner.

Wires hanging, pins snapped. No electronics working.

What I CAN tell you is that it left my shop in better condition in which it arrived.

Lots of little things buttoned up on the inside and tightened,....reinforced, NO alterations were done on the pack though. No cosmetic fix ups. We left all the glorious imperfections. We just cleaned and reassembled.

The Legacy pack is what we got from that effort.

-V 71
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By Jangonate
#4901923
I know I’m another echo in the room, but I have to join the chorus of “it’s gorgeous!”

It would be a dream to have that in my collection and don’t think I haven’t been budgeting and rebudgeting to find a place it fits. For now I’ll have to be content with the Anovos kit that I hope will be here in the next month or two.

You done good. Be proud!
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By Coover5
#4901926
I remember when I first joined this group (nearly 15 years ago) Something like this seemed impossible. it boggles my mind to think of the leaps and bounds made in this community in those 15 years. Proud to say my replica was made by 1/2 of the team that brought us the Spengler Legacy Pack! Honestly, I was worried the original films would take a backseat to ATC merchandise. I had no idea that we would really end up seeing some of the best stuff produced for the GB community.
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By deadderek
#4901928
Coover5 wrote:Honestly, I was worried the original films would take a backseat to ATC merchandise. I had no idea that we would really end up seeing some of the best stuff produced for the GB community.
No doubts Sony had big plans for ATC, but it was a box office bomb so it's not likely to get any big merchandise push anytime soon.

It worried me a little that as a result we wouldn't see a lot classic merchandise but it seems I was mistaken.
User avatar
By deadderek
#4901943
venkman71 wrote:
If Joel Schumacher can apologize for Batman & Robin, Paul Feig can apologize for Answer the Call.


.................................when?
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/entertain ... index.html
By ccv66
#4902072
So I just got a 4k set up and just quickly checked out the 4k remastered GB2. Thought it was interesting that bill murray and Ramis are wearing the same pack in the Do Ray egon court room scene and again at the end Murray and Ramis or both wearing a semi hero that says ray, but glancing at all the packs in the movie I can't find the spenglar legacy pack. Infact the only spot I think I see it is the deleted scene with Rick moranis. http://www.theraffon.net/~spookcentral/ ... eted12.htm. Is this a Louis Tully pack ? Lol. But does anyone know the history or have link about this pack actually being on screen? Thanks
#4902076
This was a great read - too bad that the pics are currently down: viewtopic.php?t=36529


ccv66 wrote:So I just got a 4k set up and just quickly checked out the 4k remastered GB2. Thought it was interesting that bill murray and Ramis are wearing the same pack in the Do Ray egon court room scene and again at the end Murray and Ramis or both wearing a semi hero that says ray, but glancing at all the packs in the movie I can't find the spenglar legacy pack. Infact the only spot I think I see it is the deleted scene with Rick moranis. http://www.theraffon.net/~spookcentral/ ... eted12.htm. Is this a Louis Tully pack ? Lol. But does anyone know the history or have link about this pack actually being on screen? Thanks
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By ccv66
#4902078
Thanks, good read even without the pics. I just found it odd to see how often they were changing/swapping packs considering that there was only a few minutes total of the guys with packs in the whole gb2 movie.
By ccv66
#4902081
Well calling it The Tully pack isn't as sexy as calling it The spenglar pack. I think in the video the guys from Anovos "were told by" Sony that's what the pack was called. If I remember right I think Sony was particular with Matty on what they named their wand. Nuetrina? So I won't give Anovos too much crap, however I'm always in the mood to $h!t on Sony.

Thanks for the info, wasn't sure where the pack was in the movies
#4902090
This pack has been catalogued incorrectly for years in the archive, and that's not on Anovos. There's masking tape on the motherboard reading "SPENGLER," as well as an inventory tag with notes indicating its "history" with display time at Planet Hollywoods, "worn by Harold Ramis," and more inaccuracies. I do wish that Anovos could have corrected Sony's mistakes in marketing this pack, if just to avoid confusion in the prop community. It's an awesome project to undertake and something I never thought would be made or hit the market, but it'd be great if people could look it up and match it to what they see on screen. As Ramis/Spengler never wears this particular prop in either movie, any customers who try to find him with a pack like theirs will be disappointed - and it won't be a result of Anovos coming up short in replicating the pack they were given.

I'm excited to see how this comes out the other end of development/production! For those of you who have Anovos standard kits, how accurate are the add-on bits on the production piece? Crank knob, Clippards, elbows, etc? I heard they would be improving those after the con prototype with strange ones. I assume they'll re-use greeblie tooling here?
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By ccv66
#4902104
In general everything's ok, can be slapped together out of the box for a nice pack. For most people, they'll probably be either modifying, detailing or upgrading most of the " add on parts". The parts are different from wondercon, but I wouldn't necessarily say Superior. In some ways I'm ok with it, I wouldn't want Anovos make the kit more expensive with licences fee for resign Dale/ clippards, when I planned on buying real ones anyways. If the legacy pack comes with "worts and all" , you'll have to be adding the worts to their kit.
#4903122
Hi I'm new here but though id let everyone know that I messaged Anovos customer service about the pack , they said for the Spengler pack there is just lighting on it, for the other GB pack we offer we will have a light and sound package at a later date. I don't know $3000 dollars is a lot to spend with just the pack and lights what do you guys think?

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