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By GBFans
Administrator
#381024
This topic was created to leave feedback for hole in the ground productions.

Please leave feedback for this person if you have completed a transaction with them recently. Remember to keep things factual and relavent to the discussion. Do not comment if you do not have a reason to (ex. you haven't had a transcation with them), and remember once a comment is submitted you will not be able to edit it. We also do not remove feedback unless it violates a rule, so do not be afraid to leave an honest opinion!
User avatar
By EJLambert
#267452
Besides selling a fully built proton pack, they also sell resin parts (clippard, legris elbows ect) Has anyone here actually done business with them? Here is their website : LINK REMOVED
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By ThrowingChicken
Supporting Member
#267460
As far as I know, we don't really know much about them nor have we had anyone openly admit to purchasing from them. They are not members here, at least not openly, so that makes me cautious, but I couldn't say that makes them bad either. As it stands, they are 0/0, so if you buy from them be sure to leave some feedback.

Based on accuracy as displayed in their photos, it does seem a little off for the price. The castings appear to be quality, despite this inaccuracy, but I would have to hold them in hand to really tell how good they are.
By sporkman1
#300502
As far as I know, we don't really know much about them nor have we had anyone openly admit to purchasing from them. They are not members here, at least not openly, so that makes me cautious, but I couldn't say that makes them bad either. As it stands, they are 0/0, so if you buy from them be sure to leave some feedback.

Based on accuracy as displayed in their photos, it does seem a little off for the price. The castings appear to be quality, despite this inaccuracy, but I would have to hold them in hand to really tell how good they are.

Well, here I am! LOL The the guy behind Hole in the Ground Productions. Yes, I am a member here as well as many other websites that I never post to or hardly ever visit. With working a regular day job and running the prop business on the side, leaves me little time to peruse the forums. I just saw this post today and its an old one. I know that probably most of the people who have bought a pack from me are members here, but I honestly couldn't tell you their screennames. As you can tell if you look over my website, proton packs are just one of MANY items I produce, so its no surprise that I'm not well known within a "specific" fan community.

As far as inaccuracy, what in particular are you talking about? There's many different building plans out there and not even the packs between films are the same. So I don't think there's any "perfect" pack. There's folks out there I'm sure who are accuracy nazis who want everything to be spec with a caliper. That's not me. However, I have seen many many packs, and mine look far better than most. Not only that, but I do quality work and my packs can take a beating. They hold up.

Anyway, just thought I'd leave this post and say hello!

Anyway, just recently
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By ThrowingChicken
Supporting Member
#300514
Ugh, I had a whole thing typed out with photos and what not and I lost it right before posting. Just a quick summery of what I was going to post:

The cyclotron appears to be too small, or the spacer too big, or the rim around the cyclotron is too small. It appears that there is too much space between the edge of the rim and the edge of the spacer.

The gun grips should wrap around the pipe a bit more, and it might just be a trick of the lighting but the finger indentions seem to be too tight.

My biggest issue is the distance between the top and left side of the gun box and the rear pipe. The actual distance is around 1/16" on both sides, but on yours it appears to be around 3/8", which is 6 times what it should be. I realize certain limitations come with resin, but that's a big gap.

Could be wrong by the rear instrument bar appears too be too small.

The gun track, or "particle thrower bracket" as you list it, is a bit too simplified.
User avatar
By Phish4dinner
#300519
Image

I only have a noob eye but for your own reference i think that ribbon cable clamp looks way too big and the bottom of the EDA looks as tho it is frowning at me. It should be straight.. I also agree that the cyclotron is too small.

Overall it is a good looking pack. You obviously have talent and should change some things around to make them more accurate and start selling on gbfans. =)
By sporkman1
#300537
Throwing Chicken...

1 The cyclotron is 9 inch diameter (cake pan) which is spec I believe.

2 Gun grips feel fine when you hold it.

3 With the spacing between the gun handle and box, that's probably my biggest peeve. The handle goes inside and the box "wall" go around it, hence the space. Its not resin, its wood. Trying to flush fit it is frankly, more effort than its worth it imo.

4 instrument bar dims were based on a set of plans, so if its wrong, it wasn't me! ;P

5 the gun "track" is partly covered by the hanger anyway

Really, a lot of that stuff seems nick picky to me, no offense. BTW, how much do you sell your gun bodies for? Its a lot of work to make em, and if your price is good enough, I may consider buying a few from you. Its a time vs money thing and if its worth the tradeoff.... Message me if interested.

Phish4Dinner

Not sure what you mean about the "frowning". If you mean the bottom edge, it is straight. Its just the lighting.

How would I sell on gbfans? From what I understand, the website doesn't list other vendors anymore. See, I'm so busy I don't even get time to work on my own projects cause I'm always working on customer orders. I'm actually building two pack commissions now and a third as well. Given how things have gone in the past, its very likely that one will be bought before I'm even finished. I've NEVER had a "spare" pack just laying around unsold. And I always have orders for other stuff, so its not like I just say "I got nothing better to do, I think I'll make a pack". LOL I've have several partially built Ghost Traps laying around for two years cause Im too busy with other stuff. Have you checked out my website's other items? Just last year, I built a teleporter set for a local business's ad campaign. Its one reason probably not all that many here have heard of me. Being that I make pretty much anything, I haven't become the guy that just specializes in one or two items.
User avatar
By Phish4dinner
#300558
Ok thanks! I think the 50 posts might be a problem seeing as I'm hardly ever in the forums! lOL
You seem to make great stuff as it is. You could probably do just fine with what you have already... On the other hand you could always build up those 50 post's in the forums and you should get tons of tips from those "heavies" on anything that could be done differently or fixed. I've noticed alot of people post up the construction of the parts they plan to sell.. Then after the amount of information people have here, they wind up with extremely accurate parts in the end. =)

I'm definatey going to check out your site some more :cool:
User avatar
By ThrowingChicken
Supporting Member
#300570
This is why I wish my original posting had not been lost. You are right that there are different sets of plans out there, they cater to all sorts of builders ranging from those who want it simple to those who want it accurate, and everything in between. There have been plenty of notable builds using Norm's plans and cake pans, but that isn't something you want to mold and duplicate. It is just my personal opinion that distributed kits should go beyond the packs of casual builders.
1 The cyclotron is 9 inch diameter (cake pan) which is spec I believe.
Nine inches is right, but the original packs were not made out of a cake pan. Like I said, it could be the rim around the bottom that is too small, or the spacer is too big.
2 Gun grips feel fine when you hold it.
Sure, but that isn't really my point.
3 With the spacing between the gun handle and box, that's probably my biggest peeve. The handle goes inside and the box "wall" go around it, hence the space. Its not resin, its wood. Trying to flush fit it is frankly, more effort than its worth it imo.
Oh I assumed it was resin. Anyway, there are ways with pegs and such to get it closer to the edge when you have a box with thick walls.
4 instrument bar dims were based on a set of plans, so if its wrong, it wasn't me! ;P
Possible. I think some of the plans list it too small, but that is why it's good to be part of the communities that focus on these things. We here can help you get things sorted out.
5 the gun "track" is partly covered by the hanger anyway
And? The parts that do show are wrong. You asked me what was inaccurate, I'm just letting you know.
Really, a lot of that stuff seems nick picky to me, no offense.
Well, if this were your personal thing then I would agree, but since it is for production and such, why not make it right? Or, think of it this way, there are already plenty of other sellers that offer the parts, accurately, and for similar prices, so why would anyone buy the inaccurate stuff unless they didn't know any better? It would be in your own best interest to be up to par with everyone else, unless you can beat them with significantly lower prices.
By sporkman1
#300589
Well, if this were your personal thing then I would agree, but since it is for production and such, why not make it right? Or, think of it this way, there are already plenty of other sellers that offer the parts, accurately, and for similar prices, so why would anyone buy the inaccurate stuff unless they didn't know any better? It would be in your own best interest to be up to par with everyone else, unless you can beat them with significantly lower prices.
No one's ever brought these things up before. Everyone whose bought a pack from me was totally happy with it. How do you know that anyone's is accurately sized? Besides someone measuring an actual screen used prop, its all estimation, right?
User avatar
By ProtonCharger
#300591
taking advantage of people that dont know how they're being taken advantage of is still taking advantage of people.
By sporkman1
#300622
taking advantage of people that dont know how they're being taken advantage of is still taking advantage of people.
I'm not "taking advantage" of anyone. I simply made what I consider a good product and better than much of what I've seen in person. And unless someone says to me "I'm not happy with this" or "this is wrong", how would I know there's any problem? Can you answer that for me?

I have been in the prop business for 5 years now with lots of repeat customers. I do quality work and treat my customers very well. I've gotten many customers who have done business with me after being screwed over by less reputable people. I've done prop and set work for space camps, films, and other productions. I have yet for anyone to accuse me of "taking advantage of them". You don't care for my work, fine. But don't insult my integrity.
User avatar
By ProtonCharger
#300632
taking advantage of people that dont know how they're being taken advantage of is still taking advantage of people.
I'm not "taking advantage" of anyone. I simply made what I consider a good product and better than much of what I've seen in person. And unless someone says to me "I'm not happy with this" or "this is wrong", how would I know there's any problem? Can you answer that for me?
so, selling an item you know to be inaccurate, that has plans that are accurate, to people that dont know that they are inaccurate because they trust that you are selling them an accurate item is not taking advantage of them? there's a member here that sells poorly casted resin items to new members that will agree with your approach to business, but also deny deny deny. are your clippard valves made from real clippards? your crank knob? im sure you didnt just "make" whatever you thought was a proton pack but used plans to build them correct why would you omit details but pass it off as an accurate prop?

wouldnt YOU expect someone to sell you an accurate item if you were paying 1500 for something? would you be insulted if that person shrugged off criticism from someone that makes high quality ghostbusters props available for LESS than what you offer?
I have been in the prop business for 5 years now with lots of repeat customers. I do quality work and treat my customers very well. I've gotten many customers who have done business with me after being screwed over by less reputable people. I've done prop and set work for space camps, films, and other productions. I have yet for anyone to accuse me of "taking advantage of them". You don't care for my work, fine. But don't insult my integrity.
congratulations. i considered being a new customer until i read your attitude in this thread and made my first response. if you act this way, when someone is giving you constructive criticism about what you are selling and how to make it better, then its really a miracle you have repeat business or any at all.

you are taking advantage of people should they purchase these items from you, there's no denying it. if you were a supporting member here and attempting to sell, you wouldnt be selling for very long.
By sporkman1
#300676
First off, I have never made any claims that my packs are screen accurate.

I have no problem with constructive criticism, what you did was accuse me of dishonesty.

When someone sees my pack in person and makes the decision to buy it, they know exactly what they're getting.
User avatar
By Phish4dinner
#300702
man you heavies are brutal LOL.. But you should still listen to these guys sporkman. They know what they are talking about and are very helpful. Throwing Chicken alone has probably supplied more accurate quality particle throwers than anybody else in history..
I have no problem with constructive criticism, what you did was accuse me of dishonesty.
I think you are misinterpreting what they are saying. They are looking to help you make great parts. The hostility only came from your "oh well, i think it's fine to sell as it is" outlook rather than even considering changing some things around.. I agree, your pack looks good. But for $1500 somebody could build one hell of a pack.

I understand that you do alot of various movie props and not just Ghostbusters and never spent too much time on 100% GB movie accuracey. But, for business sake, you could probably do very well for yourself by building a good reputation here if you take some time to make things more accurately. I'm tellin ya bro, the build forums are a great place to do just that, its a place for information.. The feedback forum is just a place to throw around words, opinions, and most obvious, feedback..

Like ProtonCharger said :
there's a member here that sells poorly casted resin items to new members that will agree with your approach to business, but also deny deny deny
He is not lying, and you do not want to have that same reputation.
User avatar
By ThrowingChicken
Supporting Member
#300726
Throwing Chicken alone has probably supplied more accurate quality particle throwers than anybody else in history.
Ha, thanks, though I think the metal guys have me beat, and recent discoveries show that there is room for improvement. But, no one should make a point to shrug off recent discoveries. With the latest batch of photos and discoveries posted, I think it would be imprudent for me to say "eh, close enough", instead I am thinking "oh wow, time for an update!". But that is fun too.

Sporkman1 is clearly a competent builder, but like what happens to me sometimes with my figure paintings, the proportions are off.
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User avatar
By ProtonCharger
#300728
First off, I have never made any claims that my packs are screen accurate.

I have no problem with constructive criticism, what you did was accuse me of dishonesty.

When someone sees my pack in person and makes the decision to buy it, they know exactly what they're getting.
do they understand they are not getting an accurate pack? since you make no claim either way and YOU KNOW they arent, they can assume they are. especially since one can purchase an accurate one for the same price from someone else. you are being dishonest. sorry, truth hurts.

its probably great you arent a seller here it wouldnt be for long anyway.
By sporkman1
#300785
First off, I have never made any claims that my packs are screen accurate.

I have no problem with constructive criticism, what you did was accuse me of dishonesty.

When someone sees my pack in person and makes the decision to buy it, they know exactly what they're getting.
do they understand they are not getting an accurate pack? since you make no claim either way and YOU KNOW they arent, they can assume they are. especially since one can purchase an accurate one for the same price from someone else. you are being dishonest. sorry, truth hurts.

its probably great you arent a seller here it wouldnt be for long anyway.
Hmmm, assumptions.... You are making an "assumption" that no one would want a non 100% screen accurate pack. You discount any possibility that it may not be up to YOUR standards, but may be to their's. If someone asked me if my packs were 100% accurate (and they sometimes have), I'm honest with them. If they ask for additional pics, I provide them. By your definition of dishonesty, Hasbro is being dishonest with the lightsabers they sell because they don't have a big label on them saying they aren't screen accurate. I don't think I've ever recalled people advertising items as NON screen accurate. Seriously man...

This whole thread was simply someone seeing me as another vendor whose out there. The question was raised, "who is this guy"? and I just wanted to say "hi", yes I'm a real person and a legit prop maker. Some of the non accurate parts of my packs was pointed out and its a matter of OPINION how accurate a pack SHOULD be. I'm not super fussy and some people are. If someone asked me to change certain things on a pack they ordered or "upgrade" it, I'd be happy to work with them on it. I don't just sell products for people, I help create them, and most of my props were first made because someone specifically asked me too. If there was something particular that really turned people off, I'd look at changing it. So far, I've had happy customers with my packs.

The fact that right outta the box you attack my personal and professional integrity is what really set me off. Cause its simply not true. I'd see about rounding up a couple hundred customers that can vouche for me, but that may take awhile. I'm not gonna argue further, its pointless. You obviously have your believe and you're welcome to it even if you're wrong.


Phish4dinner:
You're correct that GB is just one small part of my business but I will very likely take a look at improving some things on my packs. As I often tell people when they say that I should make a this, that, or the other thing. "If I'm working on one thing, its means there's another thing NOT being worked on" LOL I refer to my earlier statement about 2 years since I started Ghost Traps and they're still sitting in my attic. I'm often too busy filling orders and don't get near as much time as I'd like developing new products or even improving old ones. Its one reason why I joined this forum a long time ago and only now posted anything.

To give you some background on the plans I used, someone a few years back gave me a set of Norm's plans, which after beginning work, I found to be very oversized around the cyclotron. At some point, I found Stephen's plans, which I incorporated as well. Somewhere I probably even made some adjustments of my own. So I tried to take things that appeared to stay the same between all the plans I'd seen.

Thanks for those who provided links. That alone saves me from wandering the forum aimlessly! Anyone have any other questions, feel free to ask away.
User avatar
By ProtonCharger
#300790

Hmmm, assumptions.... You are making an "assumption" that no one would want a non 100% screen accurate pack. You discount any possibility that it may not be up to YOUR standards, but may be to their's. If someone asked me if my packs were 100% accurate (and they sometimes have), I'm honest with them. If they ask for additional pics, I provide them. By your definition of dishonesty, Hasbro is being dishonest with the lightsabers they sell because they don't have a big label on them saying they aren't screen accurate. I don't think I've ever recalled people advertising items as NON screen accurate. Seriously man...

This whole thread was simply someone seeing me as another vendor whose out there. The question was raised, "who is this guy"? and I just wanted to say "hi", yes I'm a real person and a legit prop maker. Some of the non accurate parts of my packs was pointed out and its a matter of OPINION how accurate a pack SHOULD be. I'm not super fussy and some people are. If someone asked me to change certain things on a pack they ordered or "upgrade" it, I'd be happy to work with them on it. I don't just sell products for people, I help create them, and most of my props were first made because someone specifically asked me too. If there was something particular that really turned people off, I'd look at changing it. So far, I've had happy customers with my packs.

The fact that right outta the box you attack my personal and professional integrity is what really set me off. Cause its simply not true. I'd see about rounding up a couple hundred customers that can vouche for me, but that may take awhile. I'm not gonna argue further, its pointless. You obviously have your believe and you're welcome to it even if you're wrong.
alright.

here's an assumption.

im a new person new to ghostbusters props, i have 1500 dollars. do i want the most accurate available props or do i want yours?

im doing my research, and i noticed that you have one for sale. for the price i am wanting to spend. let me look into why i should give you my money opposed to someone else.

so far so good. i see you make packs. let me see if there's any feed back about you because 1500 is alot of money for something i may only wear once a year. so i go to google.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hole+in+ ... =firefox-a

4th link from the top is about you, here. hey! im a member of gbfans. i wonder what this thread is about, and its about this seller that is making a pack i am thinking about purchasing.

wow. this guy is really shooting himself in his foot. i should probably take these as notes for when it comes to the final decision of whom i should purchase my pack from:

1 The cyclotron is 9 inch diameter (cake pan) which is spec I believe.

2 Gun grips feel fine when you hold it.

5 the gun "track" is partly covered by the hanger anyway

Really, a lot of that stuff seems nick picky to me,


Not sure what you mean about the "frowning". If you mean the bottom edge, it is straight. Its just the lighting.
.
why would someone pointing out issues with a pack that arent accurate be nit picky? was the cyclotron a cakepan or was that from just the first guy who made plans? i still dont know, maybe i should keep researching.
No one's ever brought these things up before. Everyone whose bought a pack from me was totally happy with it. How do you know that anyone's is accurately sized? Besides someone measuring an actual screen used prop, its all estimation, right?
well thats a big red flag, i know plans are out there, because this guy needed something to build from to make is accurate right? i mean 1500 is alot of money to give to someone that still doesnt make an accurate pack, im still unsure because im new.
]By your definition of dishonesty, Hasbro is being dishonest with the lightsabers they sell because they don't have a big label on them saying they aren't screen accurate. I don't think I've ever recalled people advertising items as NON screen accurate. Seriously man...
wow, ive heard that before from this other hobby i was involved in. someone was approached with accuracy and they blamed a toy for not being accurate, but toys are lisensed products and they go through a scrutinizing process to get damn near close accuracy before the suffer from being inaccurate, i know that the pke meter was a recent thing with mattel, and its damn near close.

look at his attitude about it too. i dont know if this is such a good idea. after all, i can purchase a proton pack on ebay for 1200 right now that was built by the owner of gbfans, thats already 300 in savings, and i can only assume that the owner of an internationally recognized ghostbusters community fan site would have an idea how to get the materials from the right people to make an accurate pack for my original price of 1500. i dont think there's any doubt in my mind now where my money should go.






so now we're back to me, ProtonCharger, good old Adam that "attacked your integrity." i took everything YOU said, did my own research, a few google searches and an ebay search and came to the final conclusion you have successfully shot yourself in the foot because all it takes is enough people to see that they cant assume they'll be getting the most accurate pack available from you for the price that COSTS the SAME as one that is.

you dont even have to be a seller here to screw up!
User avatar
By Jairus
#300830
So, in a nutshell:

You've been in props for 5 years, Ghostbusters props for less than a year.
You sell completed packs for $1500.
Your packs are inaccurate/not accurate to the plans and measurements we've gleaned from the screen used packs.
Your packs are better quality than some eBay packs.
You copped major attitude at TC's first suggestion that

GBfans has been around for 10 years, many of the registered sellers for nearly that long.
Completed packs can be had for under $1500.
The packs are accurate to plans and screen-used measurements
The packs are fiberglass, resin, and metal, some of the most durable materials available.
Sellers participate in the community and are continuously improving their product.

I don't know how it works in the other props you've dealt in for the past 5 years, but we're a little bit different. If you're going to come around with an attitude and unwillingness to take any criticism or partake in discussion, I don't really see why anyone should buy your packs or recommend anyone else to buy from you.
User avatar
By EJLambert
#300854
A few more things:

This isn't the proton pack mafia. The problem isn't the inaccuracies, it's not the unwillingness to take those into account, but the fact that you called the input nickpicking. I don't doubt that you worked hard on that and criticism over the internet has no context to put it in other than the one you read into. But Throwing Chicken was just giving honest feedback.

You haven't gone up to bat about providing info about the actual quality of your resin parts. Did you actually cast the parts from real resistors? This is my actual concern because the price tag on a complete pack is far, far too high for me.

There is no indication of actual buyers giving feed back. That had made me already hesitant to buy parts. You say that no one had complained, but that doesn't tell us much.

In the mind of the members here, who have worked hard to make their props and costumes as accurate as possible, you saying that accuracy is all speculation is insulting to them. Most of them are not in the business, but do this as a hobby. Its a real labor of love that goes into them, at great personal expense. After all that work, to have some one they don't know come in and say it doesn't matter is equal to urinating in a rose garden.

Unfortunately, the dismissive attitude that you have shown has lost you many, many potential customers within this community. And I'm counting myself too.

Is it just me, or do you think it's time to lock this thread?
User avatar
By Vincenzo330
#300856
I think the big issue is that you do have the potential to make some really nice packs that people will be happy with and critics will respect, but you've basically just shrugged it off.

There is a huge wealth of knowledge here and this is a chance for you to not only increase your customer base in the most concentrated assembly of Ghostbusters Fans, but to also have an even better product than before.

All you have to do is ask questions and actually care enough to hear out the responses.
By sporkman1
#300890
As I said, how important accuracy is is a matter of opinion. Saying some details are nick picking was not meant to insult anybody. It's more important to some than others. And I have no problem making those changes if that's what people are looking for. As for pricing, it may seem a little higher for my packs, but as I'm sure everyone here knows, it's not an overnight process. Time has a worth to it and I've no interest in working for free. Some prop makers probably do and in such cases, yeah, I can't compete in price.
By sporkman1
#300967
Let me clarify the difference between "personal" and "business" viewpoints....

I do not HAVE to be a member of gbfans. I've sold several packs over the last few years (to customers who were happy with them) and I have made some changes a number of times to improve them. I did this without eBay and without being a member of gbfans. I could have continued to make no improvements to my packs. I am also fine with my own personal pack I have for costuming and so I had no need to join this forum for my own hobby purposes. However...

I CHOOSE to join the forum so that I could improve my product. For YOU, the "potential buyers". There's no other reason for me to be here. So its wrong to think I have no desire to take anyone's input into account. When I say someone is "nick picky" about something, that is my PERSONAL view, NOT an insult. I'd never insult someone's time, work, and effort as I would not want to be treated the same. There's things I'm nick picky about that some of you would find silly I'm sure as well (as many of my friends can attest to). However, from a BUSINESS standpoint, I will gladly take those little things into account to make what I have more accurate. I have done so before and will continue to do so. THATS WHY I CHOOSE TO JOIN THIS FORUM!!! And I primarily posted on this thread just to say "hi". Only to be treated like a pariah within a few posts later. Hmm, my first online experience with the GB community, and half the people posting crucify me. Rather than welcome me, you've accused me of cheating people, not taking critism, and get bent outta shape for expressing my personal (not professional) opinion and taking that opinion the wrong way. And you have the nerve to say I can't take criticism! I don't have to make GB props at all, and frankly wonder why I should bother when many of you don't appreciate the fact that I'm here because I want to my product better.

I've said my peace, I won't be responding further to this thread so if you're only here to be nasty, so don't waste your time.
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