Discuss the upcoming movie to be released in 2020 and directed by Jason Reitman.
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By RichardLess
#4962106
So…what was Gozer’s plan?

In the original Gozer transforms into its destructor form. That’s the end game. The portal opens, Gozer comes through and it’s new form is chosen.

So here..Gozer just…does nothing. And takes the same form as in 1984, a “girl”. I think the movie missed a huge opportunity by trying to not out do the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. Think of all the funny things they could’ve done. And it doesn’t have to undercut the emotional ending because the final showdown is with the destructor form.

They could chosen Gozer to be…a tiny pebble. Or an Apple. Or a bucket of KFC. A tree. Or some random celebrity like…Daniel Day Lewis. Meryl Streep. A tampon. Phoebe thinks of something so mundane and harmless. An ice cream cone. Or a snow man which will melt in the Summerville heat.

You get the idea. But Gozer just doesn’t do anything. There’s no purpose to her arrival beyond “here I am”. I would’ve liked to see her doing something new beyond uncrossing the streams. She does the finger tip lightning. Ok. What else you got? How about some telekinesis? Some other ghosts or beings are summoned thru the temple.

The more I sit with this movie the more it’s serious lack of imagination bothers me.

And a trap holds Gozer? I don’t think I like that. Gozer needed to be destroyed. And the choose the form of your destruction would be a great way. Phoebe thinks of a form so ridiculous that it’s literally an inanimate object.

I don’t mind that the new movie has Gozer being the villain. No. I mind that they do less with it than the original movie. Nothing new is said or done.

I’m interested to see how I feel about this movie rewatching it over and over because I can’t stop going over the details that make no sense and story beats that are done flippantly because the first film did them.
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By mrmichaelt
#4962108
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:08 am So…what was Gozer’s plan?

In the original Gozer transforms into its destructor form. That’s the end game. The portal opens, Gozer comes through and it’s new form is chosen.
Gozer is the Destructor but in June 2021, Gozer immediately determined the world destroyed itself in the past 37 years since it last arrived. So it could take its time with telling someone to choose a form and dealing the final blow to the planet. They even bothered to build a throne for Gozer to sit on at this temple (Yeah, the Seinfeld episode where George brings the store guard a chair popped in my head) :P
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:08 am So here..Gozer just…does nothing. And takes the same form as in 1984, a “girl”. I think the movie missed a huge opportunity by trying to not out do the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. Think of all the funny things they could’ve done. And it doesn’t have to undercut the emotional ending because the final showdown is with the destructor form.
I agreed with Jason Reitman and Gil Kenan decided the best route was to go small with Mini-Pufts instead of being the fourth movie in a row with a giant spectacle.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:08 am They could chosen Gozer to be…a tiny pebble. Or an Apple. Or a bucket of KFC. A tree. Or some random celebrity like…Daniel Day Lewis. Meryl Streep. A tampon. Phoebe thinks of something so mundane and harmless. An ice cream cone. Or a snow man which will melt in the Summerville heat.
I was hoping in the movie there would be a close up shot of Janine's whale paperweight and Phoebe turns Gozer into another one. But on the other hand, it would have been too comedic when it was going to be an emotional finale.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:08 am And a trap holds Gozer? I don’t think I like that. Gozer needed to be destroyed. And the choose the form of your destruction would be a great way. Phoebe thinks of a form so ridiculous that it’s literally an inanimate object.
More like a field of nearly every single Trap the Ghostbusters built rigged to several capacitors trapped Gozer.
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By RichardLess
#4962114
mrmichaelt wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:38 am
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:08 am So…what was Gozer’s plan?

In the original Gozer transforms into its destructor form. That’s the end game. The portal opens, Gozer comes through and it’s new form is chosen.
Gozer is the Destructor but in June 2021, Gozer immediately determined the world destroyed itself in the past 37 years since it last arrived. So it could take its time with telling someone to choose a form and dealing the final blow to the planet. They even bothered to build a throne for Gozer to sit on at this temple (Yeah, the Seinfeld episode where George brings the store guard a chair popped in my head) :P
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:08 am So here..Gozer just…does nothing. And takes the same form as in 1984, a “girl”. I think the movie missed a huge opportunity by trying to not out do the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. Think of all the funny things they could’ve done. And it doesn’t have to undercut the emotional ending because the final showdown is with the destructor form.
I agreed with Jason Reitman and Gil Kenan decided the best route was to go small with Mini-Pufts instead of being the fourth movie in a row with a giant spectacle.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:08 am They could chosen Gozer to be…a tiny pebble. Or an Apple. Or a bucket of KFC. A tree. Or some random celebrity like…Daniel Day Lewis. Meryl Streep. A tampon. Phoebe thinks of something so mundane and harmless. An ice cream cone. Or a snow man which will melt in the Summerville heat.
I was hoping in the movie there would be a close up shot of Janine's whale paperweight and Phoebe turns Gozer into another one. But on the other hand, it would have been too comedic when it was going to be an emotional finale.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:08 am And a trap holds Gozer? I don’t think I like that. Gozer needed to be destroyed. And the choose the form of your destruction would be a great way. Phoebe thinks of a form so ridiculous that it’s literally an inanimate object.
More like a field of nearly every single Trap the Ghostbusters built rigged to several capacitors trapped Gozer.
Yeah I definitely don’t think having another giant thing appear would be a good idea. I feel so conflicted about the mini pufts. I loved them. But having them just come out of a bag of marshmallows apropos of nothing? They aren’t ghosts. The more I think about it the more it annoys me how little thought was put into it.

It’s like they thought “oh we’ll just show this thing from the first film and they’ll accept it because they recognize it”. I can’t help but agreeing with the many critics who mentioned this is the movie equivalent of the Leo Pointing At the Tv meme.

Another problem is the ghostbusters crossing the streams, or attempting to. It’s another “we’ll put in a reference to the original without thinking”. There’s a specific reason given why they try crossing the streams. It’s not to destroy Gozer. It’s to close the gate. Gozer got obliterated the first time she got hit with proton streams(which could’ve been her toying with them but still..)

I’m glad they included the original cast but when dealing with a plot line like the death of a friend they needed to be in it more than glorified cameos. I needed and wanted to see the reaction of the original guys finding out Egon passed away. I would’ve loved a montage of them getting the suits out of storage, strapping on the packs, putting on the elbow pads, the music is bad ass and heroic and then we cut to them calling & waiting for an Uber to the airport. It could’ve been like the scene in the original when they come out of the hole in the ground after the earth quake and we get that awesome pumped up music, the crowd cheering, the guys pumped up and ready for action…and we cut to them climbing the stairs and out of breath lol.

We needed to see Ray getting the band back together. Having them just show up…I don’t think it was done right. Then again, I didn’t see the movie with a crowd of people so I’m not sure how the moment played.

It’s just the more I think about this movie the more I think I’m giving it a pass because I’ve waited so long. It has some terrific moments. Great new characters. But almost no imagination or thought went into the why and how beyond “it’s a reference/Easter egg”.

This movie reminds me of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. I enjoy them(well not the last one) but I have major, major problems with characterization and plot.
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By Chicken, He Clucked
#4962116
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am
Yeah I definitely don’t think having another giant thing appear would be a good idea. I feel so conflicted about the mini pufts. I loved them. But having them just come out of a bag of marshmallows apropos of nothing? They aren’t ghosts. The more I think about it the more it annoys me how little thought was put into it.

It’s like they thought “oh we’ll just show this thing from the first film and they’ll accept it because they recognize it”. I can’t help but agreeing with the many critics who mentioned this is the movie equivalent of the Leo Pointing At the Tv meme.

Another problem is the ghostbusters crossing the streams, or attempting to. It’s another “we’ll put in a reference to the original without thinking”. There’s a specific reason given why they try crossing the streams. It’s not to destroy Gozer. It’s to close the gate. Gozer got obliterated the first time she got hit with proton streams(which could’ve been her toying with them but still..)

I’m glad they included the original cast but when dealing with a plot line like the death of a friend they needed to be in it more than glorified cameos. I needed and wanted to see the reaction of the original guys finding out Egon passed away. I would’ve loved a montage of them getting the suits out of storage, strapping on the packs, putting on the elbow pads, the music is bad ass and heroic and then we cut to them calling & waiting for an Uber to the airport. It could’ve been like the scene in the original when they come out of the hole in the ground after the earth quake and we get that awesome pumped up music, the crowd cheering, the guys pumped up and ready for action…and we cut to them climbing the stairs and out of breath lol.

We needed to see Ray getting the band back together. Having them just show up…I don’t think it was done right. Then again, I didn’t see the movie with a crowd of people so I’m not sure how the moment played.

It’s just the more I think about this movie the more I think I’m giving it a pass because I’ve waited so long. It has some terrific moments. Great new characters. But almost no imagination or thought went into the why and how beyond “it’s a reference/Easter egg”.

This movie reminds me of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. I enjoy them(well not the last one) but I have major, major problems with characterization and plot.
Agree with this. The best part of the movie is when it is being a Jason Reitman indie flick with 80’s Amblin sensibilities - but the missing ingredient is dense dialogue. If you watch those 80’s movies there is a ton of engaging stuff going on in the frame at all times. Afterlife looks a lot nicer - the cinematography is exceptional, and the Muncher chase is a highlight, but it is thinly spread - and then the third act turns into something else. I like it because it’s Ghostbusters, but I want to see a full movie of Reitman doing 80’s Amblin but with an original script to match those movies and fully-formed character arcs and new ghostly villains which lead to a satisfying climax.
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By mrmichaelt
#4962117
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am Yeah I definitely don’t think having another giant thing appear would be a good idea. I feel so conflicted about the mini pufts. I loved them. But having them just come out of a bag of marshmallows apropos of nothing? They aren’t ghosts. The more I think about it the more it annoys me how little thought was put into it.
I don't think for a second, you should ever think they put little thought into anything in this movie.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am Another problem is the ghostbusters crossing the streams, or attempting to. It’s another “we’ll put in a reference to the original without thinking”. There’s a specific reason given why they try crossing the streams. It’s not to destroy Gozer. It’s to close the gate. Gozer got obliterated the first time she got hit with proton streams(which could’ve been her toying with them but still..)
Hmm, I saw it as their attempt to stall then Peter resorted to insults to stall while the others tried to regroup and figure out how to get the capacitors working. I don't think they stupidly crossed the streams on Gozer, they knew the presence of "the P.K.E. cloud" was going to skew the results enough that they wouldn't die in the most horrible fashion. And it was only the 3 of them crossing and we don't know what power setting they were using - could have been on a weaker setting.

That scene in the 1st movie. Yeah, I always interpreted it as her discorporating herself and getting on with destroying the world. She wasn't wasting any more time trading shots with them.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am I’m glad they included the original cast but when dealing with a plot line like the death of a friend they needed to be in it more than glorified cameos. I needed and wanted to see the reaction of the original guys finding out Egon passed away. I would’ve loved a montage of them getting the suits out of storage, strapping on the packs, putting on the elbow pads, the music is bad ass and heroic and then we cut to them calling & waiting for an Uber to the airport. It could’ve been like the scene in the original when they come out of the hole in the ground after the earth quake and we get that awesome pumped up music, the crowd cheering, the guys pumped up and ready for action…and we cut to them climbing the stairs and out of breath lol.

We needed to see Ray getting the band back together. Having them just show up…I don’t think it was done right. Then again, I didn’t see the movie with a crowd of people so I’m not sure how the moment played.
If this movie was from their POV, then yes, agreed. But it wasn't. It was from the POV of primarily Phoebe and then Callie and Trevor. Ray's reaction during the phone call was enough, imo.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am This movie reminds me of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. I enjoy them(well not the last one) but I have major, major problems with characterization and plot.
Woof. Sorry to hear you feel that way. Hope that changes on multiple viewings.
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By VenomSymbiote
#4962130
They don't explain this in the movie which I wish they did, but I took it as a loophole Gozer used to avoid being in a severely vulnerable state. Ray suggests in the 2009 game that Gozer came back to our reality as Stay Puft because he's stuck to one destructor form per god per dimension or something to that effect. In my mind to bypass this Gozer manifested the Mini-Pufts; small variations of itself popping into our reality while its normal form gets to wreak havoc. Also Gozer could have decided no more games since the GB universe was the only one to ward it off. I know the game is no longer canon but the ideas, such as being stuck to one form, could still be valid. I agree that I wish Gozer did a bit more, and the terror dogs. We didn't get a battle between the dogs and the busters which could have been really cool.
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By RichardLess
#4962174
mrmichaelt wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:41 am
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am Yeah I definitely don’t think having another giant thing appear would be a good idea. I feel so conflicted about the mini pufts. I loved them. But having them just come out of a bag of marshmallows apropos of nothing? They aren’t ghosts. The more I think about it the more it annoys me how little thought was put into it.
I don't think for a second, you should ever think they put little thought into anything in this movie.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am Another problem is the ghostbusters crossing the streams, or attempting to. It’s another “we’ll put in a reference to the original without thinking”. There’s a specific reason given why they try crossing the streams. It’s not to destroy Gozer. It’s to close the gate. Gozer got obliterated the first time she got hit with proton streams(which could’ve been her toying with them but still..)
Hmm, I saw it as their attempt to stall then Peter resorted to insults to stall while the others tried to regroup and figure out how to get the capacitors working. I don't think they stupidly crossed the streams on Gozer, they knew the presence of "the P.K.E. cloud" was going to skew the results enough that they wouldn't die in the most horrible fashion. And it was only the 3 of them crossing and we don't know what power setting they were using - could have been on a weaker setting.

That scene in the 1st movie. Yeah, I always interpreted it as her discorporating herself and getting on with destroying the world. She wasn't wasting any more time trading shots with them.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am I’m glad they included the original cast but when dealing with a plot line like the death of a friend they needed to be in it more than glorified cameos. I needed and wanted to see the reaction of the original guys finding out Egon passed away. I would’ve loved a montage of them getting the suits out of storage, strapping on the packs, putting on the elbow pads, the music is bad ass and heroic and then we cut to them calling & waiting for an Uber to the airport. It could’ve been like the scene in the original when they come out of the hole in the ground after the earth quake and we get that awesome pumped up music, the crowd cheering, the guys pumped up and ready for action…and we cut to them climbing the stairs and out of breath lol.

We needed to see Ray getting the band back together. Having them just show up…I don’t think it was done right. Then again, I didn’t see the movie with a crowd of people so I’m not sure how the moment played.
If this movie was from their POV, then yes, agreed. But it wasn't. It was from the POV of primarily Phoebe and then Callie and Trevor. Ray's reaction during the phone call was enough, imo.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:11 am This movie reminds me of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. I enjoy them(well not the last one) but I have major, major problems with characterization and plot.
Woof. Sorry to hear you feel that way. Hope that changes on multiple viewings.
I’m not sure the movie is from their POV. Certainly the opening scene isn’t. Then we have Mr. Grooberson. I duno. Maybe you’re right. If the choice was “I’m not going to show things outside of the core Spengler family characters POV” I think that’s a narrative mistake for a movie dealing with the death of Egon. You can say “well it’s not really about those original characters” and that’s true. But then don’t have them show up at the end like they were teleported. There’s a version of this movie where we get just a few more scenes with those characters and it makes the end work. Right now…it’s Dues Ex Machina. They materialize out of thin air. If your POV narrative gets in the way of plot logic…you have to find another way.

I think it would’ve been better, and no I can’t believe I’m saying this, if they OGB’s showed up after Gozer had been dealt with. It pains me to say that because seeing them bust again was…joy. But…ah screw it. No. I need them busting in the movie. Man this movie has me messed up. I liked it. A lot. But also…problems. Major problems.

Hmm. I’m not sure I follow your logic on the PKE cloud and crossing the streams. Are you head canoning that or did I miss them explaining that?

I wish I could say more thought was put into this. But we just have so many examples of things happening because “reference”. Mini pufts. Even the ghosts are derivative of things we’ve seen. Muncher is lovely. But he’s a blue Slimer. And he just…appears. Conveniently. They are driving down the street and…ghost? They needed to set Muncher up. Have things around town have big pieces of metal missing out of it. Have the sherif talk about how people around town are seeing a blue blob. These are easy, easy fixes.

The eyeball ghost was the one thing that was new. Or not. Apparently he’s based on a Real Ghostbusters toy? The miner was the taxi cab ghost.

Again, they have Gozer show up and…what’s her plan? There needed to be something more there. The original made that work. This one it’s like “here’s Gozer…and that’s it”. There’s a severe lack of thought being put into that.

But yeah you are 100% right. Maybe these problems with disappear in subsequent viewings.

I hope so. Because the majority of the movie is good. Loved the new characters. Maybe the issues I have are where having Dan Aykroyd take a pass on the script might’ve been beneficial. It does kinda bum he out he isn’t involved in the writing process. The dude has the imagination of a..well, of a Dan Aykroyd.
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By Sav C
#4962181
I’m in full agreement with you, Richard. They brought back Gozer, and then had Gozer do less than in the first movie. Gozer didn’t do enough in the first movie even, which is why they had to have Peck, who plays right into Gozer’s hands. Or why GBII needed Hardemeyer in addition to Vigo and Janosz. Say what you will about the latter (I personally like the role he plays in the movie), but both of the first movies had much more tension than Afterlife because they have more antagonists, and better developed antagonists. I saw one guy on here suggest that Gozer worshippers should have tried to thwart Phoebe and the gang.
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By Chris Weitzel
#4962188
Something that really struck me with the finale, besides the initial introduction of the guys grinding the movie to a standstill in terms of pacing, is how overpowered Gozer seems. Maybe it is just because she/it was hanging around longer in standard form vs. a destructor form.

Actually, maybe that isn't really what bugs me about it. So she can shrug off the proton streams, we've seen that before, even with Vigo. I think it is an annoying physics thing that killed my suspension of disbelief for a moment.

Gozer grabs the proton streams and uses them as a whip. Vigo just kind of used an energy blast to counteract the streams and knock the guys over to stop them from shooting. The proton stream is a beam of energy. Ghosts are also pure energy, hence the beam being able to wrap around them, etc. However, even if a ghost could physically grab a beam of energy, the minute they attempt to whip the energy beam, wouldn't it break the flow of the energy itself? I don't think there would be a logical way to whiplash people all the way back to the emitter point.

That is splitting hairs I guess because nothing in the movie technically needs to make sense or be consistent with theoretical real-world physics, because it is a movie. It did pull me out of the moment though.
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By mrmichaelt
#4962220
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 12:29 pm Hmm. I’m not sure I follow your logic on the PKE cloud and crossing the streams. Are you head canoning that or did I miss them explaining that?
Ok. Going back to Egon's original warning. Say the Ghostbusters are on a standard bust like Slimer in the ballroom and they cross their streams. Total protonic reversal. They die. Probably a couple square blocks get vaporized. They crossed their streams into an open portal where the Gozer P.K.E. cloud/atmospheric disturbance is floating above them, the results are skewed - the portal is closed, Gozer and Terror Dogs sucked back in, few floors taken out, they all survive.

With Egon's pack array in the mine, the streams cross above the well of souls, essentially a collection of P.K.E. and the portal, then closes it temporarily and causes tremors in Summerville. When Gozer arrives at the Farmhouse, the same kind of Gozer P.K.E. cloud/atmospheric disturbance shifts from above the mine to above the Farmhouse (it goes where Gozer goes). Then the Ghostbusters cross their 3 streams directly at Gozer. Nothing bad happens. Apparently doesn't work when directly used on a god. I think in the presence of high levels of stored P.K.E. collected into a physical mass, crossing the streams is relatively safe to do. Using it on a portal has explosive results - in both movies - we see a range of an earthquake to a big explosion.

EDIT: Yes, there's also an example of how The Video Game established the cross stream governors were added to the throwers so that crossing has no violent consequences. Then while in another dimension, they disabled said governors and used 5 crossed streams on Shandor who took on a godly destructor form, blew him up, then the resulting blast wave conveniently knocked back them onto Earth's physical plane. (But yes, the canon of the game is now debatable but thought I'd at least give it an honorable mention since we're on the topic of crossing streams)
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 12:29 pm I wish I could say more thought was put into this. But we just have so many examples of things happening because “reference”. Mini pufts. Even the ghosts are derivative of things we’ve seen. Muncher is lovely. But he’s a blue Slimer.
Sure. The P.K.E. levels/Vinz's presence could have animated anything in that Walmart but it happens to be the bags of Stay Puft Marshmallows. Muncher, sure, they wanted to create a new Class 5 ghost.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 12:29 pm And he just…appears. Conveniently. They are driving down the street and…ghost? They needed to set Muncher up. Have things around town have big pieces of metal missing out of it. Have the sherif talk about how people around town are seeing a blue blob. These are easy, easy fixes.
Podcast sets up the notion that the town is haunted when he gives Phoebe a brief tour of the town so Muncher could have manifested in that Foundry decades ago, between 1945 and 2021, and was a local legend much like with Slimer and the owners of the Sedgewick Hotel not liking any staff talking about it, then in GB1, due to the rising levels of P.K.E., Slimer becomes more aggressive in nature. Probably the same here with Muncher.

You're ignoring something to make a point. Muncher doesn't randomly show up on the street. He's in the foundry then in response to Phoebe and Podcast flees the foundry to the town.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 12:29 pm The eyeball ghost was the one thing that was new. Or not. Apparently he’s based on a Real Ghostbusters toy? The miner was the taxi cab ghost.
Yeah, the Bug-Eye Ghost. Yes, the Miner Ghost, in the Crossrip podcast that just released yesterday, was revealed to be an addition pitched by Arjen Tuiten, Special Make-Up & Live Acton Creature Effects Designer. Realizing they need a human/skeletal/zombie ghost like Zombie Taxi Driver in the first movie - he pitched his idea to Jason - it was approved - they tried different ideas like making him a bus driver, a ghost the kids talk to on the phone, but ultimately Arjen pitched him to be one of Shandor's miners then he and his team built it.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 12:29 pm Again, they have Gozer show up and…what’s her plan? There needed to be something more there. The original made that work. This one it’s like “here’s Gozer…and that’s it”. There’s a severe lack of thought being put into that.
Sure, Gozer isn't as expedient as in the first movie, but I think the implication is when Gozer arrives, the attitude taken is a reflection on the era. This time a bit more millennial and taking her time. I admit though though the addition of this well of souls and Gozer reigning over it (when they read Tobin's) felt out of left field.
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 12:29 pm I hope so. Because the majority of the movie is good. Loved the new characters. Maybe the issues I have are where having Dan Aykroyd take a pass on the script might’ve been beneficial. It does kinda bum he out he isn’t involved in the writing process. The dude has the imagination of a..well, of a Dan Aykroyd.
I was under the impression all of the original cast got to read it and offer their thoughts. And it's been established in an interview or two that Dan did contribute a lot to Ray's lines during the phone call so that's not the original dialogue from the script. Or Peter taunting Gozer was Jason letting Bill improvise.
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By RichardLess
#4962224
Sav C wrote: November 30th, 2021, 12:59 pm I’m in full agreement with you, Richard. They brought back Gozer, and then had Gozer do less than in the first movie. Gozer didn’t do enough in the first movie even, which is why they had to have Peck, who plays right into Gozer’s hands. Or why GBII needed Hardemeyer in addition to Vigo and Janosz. Say what you will about the latter (I personally like the role he plays in the movie), but both of the first movies had much more tension than Afterlife because they have more antagonists, and better developed antagonists. I saw one guy on here suggest that Gozer worshippers should have tried to thwart Phoebe and the gang.
Yeah it’s weird. In the press and interviews im seeing Jason talk about how he studied “what makes a Ghostbusters movie a Ghostbusters movie” yet he doesn’t have a human antagonist. That’s ghostbusters 101. The ghostbusters should always have issue with authority.

I’m hoping the script gets released online so we can see how much of a role the Sheriff originally played because it’s a nothing role and I doubt Bokeem Woodbine would accept the role if it was just that tiny bit part.

This is the first Ghostbusters movie I also would not classify as a comedy. There’s jokes, sure, in the same way there are jokes in the Marvel movies. But it’s mostly a drama/adventure/thriller.

Also…does Winston say “Let’s toast this muffin”? Toast a muffin? What? Out of all the lines they could’ve picked, “let’s toast this muffin” was the winner.

I think a better line would’ve been, and this is the first time we hear the ghostbusters say anything,

(Offscreen we hear)
Winston : “Hey Gozer”
We wait a beat as Gozer turns to face the unseen Ghostbusters who are revealed in a terrific push in low angle wide shot

Winston: “Are *YOU* a god?”

BAM! They blast Gozer with their streams

They beams hit Gozer and the boys struggle stabilizing their wands

Venkman: (yelling over the sound of proton streams and paranormal chaos)“Hey..I thought we agreed I was going to do the counting to 2 thing”

Winston: “Sorry. It just popped in there”(they both eye Ray)

Ray: “One time I accidentally summon a hundred foot Marshmallow Man and I never hear the end of it. Criticize. Criticize. I wrote an finely worded 4.5 page apology to the church that was destroyed”

Venkman: Fellas, enough with the chit chat. Let’s stroll down memory lane later. Right now, let’s cross em. On the count of 3, let’s go at 2…”

They cross the streams and Gozer uncrosses them and grabs the proton streams and whip lashes them forward. The ghostbusters are sent backward.

Venkman: “she likes it rough. Ok. Hey Ray. Show Gozer your new toy”

Ray reaches around his belt and unhooks a bulbous device. Ray is grinning ear to ear. Finally. It’s time to try it.

Ray “Alright. Egon this one’s for you!”

Ray tosses the proton grenade and…it’s the most pathetic throw ever. It lands maybe 4 feet in front of them.

Ray “oh shit…everybody get down!”

Winston “We are down Ray”.

Suspense as we wait for the proton grenade to explode and….nothing. It doesn’t work. It’s a dud

Ray “Sorry. My fault”


Oops. I got a little carried away there.

Sorry. I can’t help myself.
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By jonogunn
#4962227
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:58 pm
Sav C wrote: November 30th, 2021, 12:59 pm I’m in full agreement with you, Richard. They brought back Gozer, and then had Gozer do less than in the first movie. Gozer didn’t do enough in the first movie even, which is why they had to have Peck, who plays right into Gozer’s hands. Or why GBII needed Hardemeyer in addition to Vigo and Janosz. Say what you will about the latter (I personally like the role he plays in the movie), but both of the first movies had much more tension than Afterlife because they have more antagonists, and better developed antagonists. I saw one guy on here suggest that Gozer worshippers should have tried to thwart Phoebe and the gang.
Yeah it’s weird. In the press and interviews im seeing Jason talk about how he studied “what makes a Ghostbusters movie a Ghostbusters movie” yet he doesn’t have a human antagonist. That’s ghostbusters 101. The ghostbusters should always have issue with authority.

I’m hoping the script gets released online so we can see how much of a role the Sheriff originally played because it’s a nothing role and I doubt Bokeem Woodbine would accept the role if it was just that tiny bit part.

This is the first Ghostbusters movie I also would not classify as a comedy. There’s jokes, sure, in the same way there are jokes in the Marvel movies. But it’s mostly a drama/adventure/thriller.

Also…does Winston say “Let’s toast this muffin”? Toast a muffin? What? Out of all the lines they could’ve picked, “let’s toast this muffin” was the winner.

I think a better line would’ve been, and this is the first time we hear the ghostbusters say anything,

(Offscreen we hear)
Winston : “Hey Gozer”
We wait a beat as Gozer turns to face the unseen Ghostbusters who are revealed in a terrific push in low angle wide shot

Winston: “Are *YOU* a god?”

BAM! They blast Gozer with their streams

They beams hit Gozer and the boys struggle stabilizing their wands

Venkman: (yelling over the sound of proton streams and paranormal chaos)“Hey..I thought we agreed I was going to do the counting to 2 thing”

Winston: “Sorry. It just popped in there”(they both eye Ray)

Ray: “One time I accidentally summon a hundred foot Marshmallow Man and I never hear the end of it. Criticize. Criticize. I wrote an finely worded 4.5 page apology to the church that was destroyed”

Venkman: Fellas, enough with the chit chat. Let’s stroll down memory lane later. Right now, let’s cross em. On the count of 3, let’s go at 2…”

They cross the streams and Gozer uncrosses them and grabs the proton streams and whip lashes them forward. The ghostbusters are sent backward.

Venkman: “she likes it rough. Ok. Hey Ray. Show Gozer your new toy”

Ray reaches around his belt and unhooks a bulbous device. Ray is grinning ear to ear. Finally. It’s time to try it.

Ray “Alright. Egon this one’s for you!”

Ray tosses the proton grenade and…it’s the most pathetic throw ever. It lands maybe 4 feet in front of them.

Ray “oh shit…everybody get down!”

Winston “We are down Ray”.

Suspense as we wait for the proton grenade to explode and….nothing. It doesn’t work. It’s a dud

Ray “Sorry. My fault”


Oops. I got a little carried away there.

Sorry. I can’t help myself.
The craziest thing is his part wasn’t the worse. JK Simmons role takes the cake
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By Ron Daniels
#4962239
I assumed Gozer was weaker because of Egon’s efforts in preventing the arrival of Gazer and because of the events of GB1. In GB1 Gozer comes after all the ghosts they have caught are released all at once and Gozer arrives several hours, possibly longer, later. In GBA, ghosts begin coming from the mine and Gozer immediately arrives.

Notably, they don’t defeat Gozer in GB1 by crossing the streams on Gozer. They cross the streams on the portal/temple — where Gozer is drawing power from. I can’t imagine the portal being imploded by a total pepto of reversal felt very good. And Egon setup a system to essentially accomplish the same every time spirits started rising from the pit.

So I get the whole ability to trap Gozer using all of those traps. Why Gozer picked a slightly different but similar form as 1984? You got me there.
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By RichardLess
#4962248
Ron Daniels wrote: November 30th, 2021, 6:47 pm I assumed Gozer was weaker because of Egon’s efforts in preventing the arrival of Gazer and because of the events of GB1. In GB1 Gozer comes after all the ghosts they have caught are released all at once and Gozer arrives several hours, possibly longer, later. In GBA, ghosts begin coming from the mine and Gozer immediately arrives.

Notably, they don’t defeat Gozer in GB1 by crossing the streams on Gozer. They cross the streams on the portal/temple — where Gozer is drawing power from. I can’t imagine the portal being imploded by a total pepto of reversal felt very good. And Egon setup a system to essentially accomplish the same every time spirits started rising from the pit.

So I get the whole ability to trap Gozer using all of those traps. Why Gozer picked a slightly different but similar form as 1984? You got me there.
I get that a lot of fans are trying to head canon things into making sense. I get the temptation to want to do that. But unless a character says “Hey. This is how it works. Gozer is weaker because…” it’s just us fans trying to make sense of a messy plot. Sometimes you can tell when a film wants the audience to figure things out for itself, which is fine. But there are other times when you have to question the logic & say “hey wait a minute. Ghostbusters has a certain verisimilitude & this goes against that”.

If this was the first time we had seen Gozer it wouldn’t matter. But we have a whole other films mythology to go off of. I didn’t get the sense Gozer was weaker. Just that….no destructor this time. When you introduce a known entity into a plot, you either follow the rules or what’s been established or not. If you don’t follow those rules, you gotta explain why.

It’s like…the terror dogs turn to burnt husks when Gozer was trapped. That’s…not how that worked in the first film. They were burnt husks because a massive fireball cooked them and the portal was fully closed. I’m not sure why the trap energy didn’t also suck in the terror dogs? Like with Callie.
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By mrmichaelt
#4962259
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 8:32 pm It’s like…the terror dogs turn to burnt husks when Gozer was trapped. That’s…not how that worked in the first film. They were burnt husks because a massive fireball cooked them and the portal was fully closed. I’m not sure why the trap energy didn’t also suck in the terror dogs? Like with Callie.
In GB1, they crossed the streams and reversed the flow of the portal until it shut on its own in an explosive manner. The pull of the portal pulled the spectral essence of Zuul and Vinz from their corporeal manifestation into the portal along with Gozer. As a result of their spectral form being absent, the corporeal Terror Dog form turns into the hardened husk. The husk protected Dana and Louis from certain death from the explosion but also made the husk smell like barbecued dog hair.

The combined power of the Trap field and the charged capacitors implicitly was as strong as a reversed portal flow, so when Zuul and Vinz' spiritual essences was trapped along with Gozer and the P.K.E., it had the same effect of turning their corporeal Terror Dog forms into the hardened husks. The previous scene in the mine demonstrates that with one regular Trap, the Terror Dog's corporeal form just dissipates and the user is restored to normal. This is the first time we've seen a Terror Dog trapped with a standard Trap so there's no hard rule about that kind of capture.
By Wiggyof9
#4962262
In the first movie, Gozer is pretty much just hanging out when she first appears. She pets her dogs, walks around a bit, and only turns her attention to the GB's when Ray confronts her. After she attacks them, she is still just standing there waiting to see what they will do and avoids their attack. Only after they try to blast her a second time does she then change forms.

In this case, she does the same thing. Comes through to our dimension, pets her dogs, hangs around, only this time there is no immediate threat. They sneak the trap over to Zuul and capture Zuul while Gozer is distracted, which then weakens Gozer. It wasn't until Lucky was posed that Gozer regains full form and then the OGBs do their part. They cross the streams to fight her off, but I'm pretty sure they know it won't destroy her. But when faced with a God, you do what you can.

The real issue is the OGBs just show up. They should have had a B plot of some kind where we see what they are up to in some capacity. Ray's conversation should have been a bit more natural and a lot less exposition dump. Ray should have taken the news that Egon was dead and went to see Venkman. We could have seen him and Dana living together and Ray and him speak about their departed friend, etc. Maybe Ray goes to Venkman to find out if he knew Egon had a daughter, let alone a grand daughter. Venkman and Ray talk a little about Egon and they talk about needing to catch a flight to Summerville. Venkman pleads poverty, "Do you have any idea how little a professor makes these days?". Ray says "Well I know someone who might be able to help". Then they meet with Winston, who we see doing some kind of menial job, perhaps working on a car. We think he is just a working stiff still, until we see that he is showing an employee how to deal with the issue. We find out, naturally and not through exposition dumping, that he is a successful businessman. They talk about Egon, we go further into why their friendship dissolved, etc. There could have been a whole subplot with them, exploring what happened and why. Then, when they show up, it would have made more sense and been a build up to a moment.

The premise of the movie was fine and truthfully it had to be this way if they were going to deal with Egon being dead. You can't go full comedy when dealing with the death of a main character, and in this case co-creator, of the story. I expect the next movie to be more comedy forward, but still story driven.
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By RichardLess
#4962268
mrmichaelt wrote: November 30th, 2021, 9:43 pm
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 8:32 pm It’s like…the terror dogs turn to burnt husks when Gozer was trapped. That’s…not how that worked in the first film. They were burnt husks because a massive fireball cooked them and the portal was fully closed. I’m not sure why the trap energy didn’t also suck in the terror dogs? Like with Callie.
In GB1, they crossed the streams and reversed the flow of the portal until it shut on its own in an explosive manner. The pull of the portal pulled the spectral essence of Zuul and Vinz from their corporeal manifestation into the portal along with Gozer. As a result of their spectral form being absent, the corporeal Terror Dog form turns into the hardened husk. The husk protected Dana and Louis from certain death from the explosion but also made the husk smell like barbecued dog hair.

The combined power of the Trap field and the charged capacitors implicitly was as strong as a reversed portal flow, so when Zuul and Vinz' spiritual essences was trapped along with Gozer and the P.K.E., it had the same effect of turning their corporeal Terror Dog forms into the hardened husks. The previous scene in the mine demonstrates that with one regular Trap, the Terror Dog's corporeal form just dissipates and the user is restored to normal. This is the first time we've seen a Terror Dog trapped with a standard Trap so there's no hard rule about that kind of capture.
Hmm. Interesting. See I don’t think that’s how it works tho. Zuul and Vinz exist before the portal is ever opened, right? They *open* the portal. So why would it’s closure somehow suck them back in? It’s the explosion that does them in, not the portal. GB’s destroy the portal, which causes the portal to close and Mr Stay Puft to explode—from the explosion. Meaning if that portal closes WITHOUT the explosion Vinz & Zuul and Mr. Stay Puft would still be here within this realm. But the explosion does them in. That’s what is shown in the movie.

Again it seems like you are head canoning this to make sense of it. Unless I’m mistaken, which I am 100% capable of being here, your explanation is how you personally are making sense of this right? It’s not stated in some random comic or book, is it? I don’t read those so I can totally be wrong here.

I like your reasoning though for how the ending works for the terror dogs. Because we have to assume they got back to their realm somehow so maybe they were sucked back in. But I don’t think that’s how they thought of it back in 84. Maybe some retconning going on. Which is part of the issue so using Gozer again.

But I still don’t think Gozer just being Gozer as her female form works. Makes me wonder, those of you who say it in the theatre were you or the audience members waiting for the “choose the form” part?
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By mrmichaelt
#4962274
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 10:40 pm Hmm. Interesting. See I don’t think that’s how it works tho. Zuul and Vinz exist before the portal is ever opened, right? They *open* the portal. So why would it’s closure somehow suck them back in? It’s the explosion that does them in, not the portal. GB’s destroy the portal, which causes the portal to close and Mr Stay Puft to explode—from the explosion. Meaning if that portal closes WITHOUT the explosion Vinz & Zuul and Mr. Stay Puft would still be here within this realm. But the explosion does them in. That’s what is shown in the movie.

Again it seems like you are head canoning this to make sense of it. Unless I’m mistaken, which I am 100% capable of being here, your explanation is how you personally are making sense of this right? It’s not stated in some random comic or book, is it? I don’t read those so I can totally be wrong here.

I like your reasoning though for how the ending works for the terror dogs. Because we have to assume they got back to their realm somehow so maybe they were sucked back in. But I don’t think that’s how they thought of it back in 84. Maybe some retconning going on. Which is part of the issue so using Gozer again.

But I still don’t think Gozer just being Gozer as her female form works. Makes me wonder, those of you who say it in the theatre were you or the audience members waiting for the “choose the form” part?
When they're crouched down and Egon points out the door swings both ways so they could reverse the particle flow through the gate by crossing the streams.

And yeah, this next part is what I saw and interpreted. I don' know off the top of my head if anything concrete was said in interviews, comics, books, or what not. So by them doing that, instead of entities and P.K.E. exiting the portal onto Earth, it reverses and pulls all nearby entities and P.K.E. back in. The inherent danger of crossing streams sets off the explosion, the flow reverses and pulls Gozer out as or after Stay Puft is blown up, off screen Zuul and Vinz for forcibly pulled out of their corporeal forms, the said forms turn into lifeless husks in the absence of their spiritual essence, the husks are caught in the explosion but incidentally hard enough to protect Dana and Louis from being killed and are thrown about. This is all happening in those seconds of the explosion.

I thought that's where they got the idea for the conclusion in ATC, however in ATC the reversed flow is more visualized, the equipment used differs, and everything gets put back together where it was unharmed.

Yeah, it's possible and/or likely they didn't have it that worked out in detail back in 1984 (though I suspect Dan did in his head).

And yeah, the same pre-chosen form threw me off at first. I saw in Wayne Haag's concept art - that statue of Gozer by the mine elevator? Looked totally different in concept art. I don't know why they changed it. Were they overly concerned the audience wouldn't get that was Gozer and wanted to put something familiar despite how that creates questions. Also, Gozer's question "Have you come to sacrifice?" or whatever it was threw me off, too because I bet we thought she was gonna say "Choose." So it made me question the scene in the first movie. Does Gozer only make beings choose the destructor form if they attack her? Here, Phoebe tells Gozer some terrible jokes. Gozer's reaction differs and he/she/it mistakes Phoebe as a worshiper come to sacrifice her soul to he/she/it.
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By TheManEatingToaster
#4962275
Chris Weitzel wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:26 pm Gozer grabs the proton streams and uses them as a whip. Vigo just kind of used an energy blast to counteract the streams and knock the guys over to stop them from shooting. The proton stream is a beam of energy. Ghosts are also pure energy, hence the beam being able to wrap around them, etc. However, even if a ghost could physically grab a beam of energy, the minute they attempt to whip the energy beam, wouldn't it break the flow of the energy itself? I don't think there would be a logical way to whiplash people all the way back to the emitter point.
I always thought that Gozer wasn't really a ghost, it didn't die and come back like The Libray Ghost or The Scoreli Brothers.
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By mrmichaelt
#4962278
TheManEatingToaster wrote: November 30th, 2021, 11:28 pm I always thought that Gozer wasn't really a ghost, it didn't die and come back like The Libray Ghost or The Scoreli Brothers.
Yeah, presumably different rules when it comes to god entities like Gozer. Different power set. 1 Proton Stream, Gozer was powerful enough to resist and grab it. 3 a bit of a struggle but with the right move, could get free. 4, can't resist and fight back.
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By Sav C
#4962282
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:58 pm Yeah it’s weird. In the press and interviews im seeing Jason talk about how he studied “what makes a Ghostbusters movie a Ghostbusters movie” yet he doesn’t have a human antagonist. That’s ghostbusters 101. The ghostbusters should always have issue with authority.

I’m hoping the script gets released online so we can see how much of a role the Sheriff originally played because it’s a nothing role and I doubt Bokeem Woodbine would accept the role if it was just that tiny bit part.
Definitely, part of what I found so frustrating with Afterlife is that most of it is really good, but then it has some unforced errors that...jumped out on first viewing. I need to see it a few more times, but I walked out of the theater feeling like it was missing something (that's partially the challenge of bringing back Gozer--there's already a benchmark to measure Gozer's return against). It'd be great to see the script--I'm curious if the OGs weren't in the original draft, because their appearance feels like it good have been integrated into the story better (I liked your script). I'm really glad that the majority of Ghostbusters fans got the Ghostbusters movie that they wanted, and genuinely seem to enjoy it. For me, it didn't deliver the way I'd hoped it would regarding the story (I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked the new characters--it can't be easy introducing new characters that can hold their own into the Ghostbusters world).
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By timeware
#4962284
I would imagine that the script would be released in a couple months, there has to be one. I still find it odd that the ATC script was never released but they have claims of it being written. But yeah, i'd love to see what changes had to be cut and if the script reads better then the final filming.
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By RichardLess
#4962288
timeware wrote: December 1st, 2021, 1:44 am I would imagine that the script would be released in a couple months, there has to be one. I still find it odd that the ATC script was never released but they have claims of it being written. But yeah, i'd love to see what changes had to be cut and if the script reads better then the final filming.
Chances are if we do see it released it will be for award consideration. That usually happens now. Around awards time for Oscar’s and Emmy’s studios release scripts for voters to read. Problem is sometime they are legit shooting scripts and other times they are nothing more than transcripts made to look like scripts(which is what happened with Force Awakens in 2015).

Jason Reitman probably has it in his contract that the studio must run a basic “For your consideration” campaign for the guild awards or Oscar’s. That’s pretty standard for filmmakers of his ilk. Time will tell. I hope so. If it happens it’ll be late December early Jan
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By robbritton
#4962296
Wiggyof9 wrote: November 30th, 2021, 10:09 pm In the first movie, Gozer is pretty much just hanging out when she first appears. She pets her dogs, walks around a bit, and only turns her attention to the GB's when Ray confronts her. After she attacks them, she is still just standing there waiting to see what they will do and avoids their attack. Only after they try to blast her a second time does she then change forms.

In this case, she does the same thing. Comes through to our dimension, pets her dogs, hangs around, only this time there is no immediate threat.
This is very true, actually - Gozer does seem kind of louche and probably would have taken its time to get to the destructor bit in '84 if there hadn't been a welcoming committee. What feels weird in this one is that it didn't immediately recognise Phoebe's uniform as a threat - if you're going to tear apart Shandor just for existing, you're 100% going to tear apart a representative of the one body ever to defeat you.
By Chris Weitzel
#4962301
TheManEatingToaster wrote: November 30th, 2021, 11:28 pm
Chris Weitzel wrote: November 30th, 2021, 1:26 pm Gozer grabs the proton streams and uses them as a whip. Vigo just kind of used an energy blast to counteract the streams and knock the guys over to stop them from shooting. The proton stream is a beam of energy. Ghosts are also pure energy, hence the beam being able to wrap around them, etc. However, even if a ghost could physically grab a beam of energy, the minute they attempt to whip the energy beam, wouldn't it break the flow of the energy itself? I don't think there would be a logical way to whiplash people all the way back to the emitter point.
I always thought that Gozer wasn't really a ghost, it didn't die and come back like The Libray Ghost or The Scoreli Brothers.
That may very well be the case, but it still doesn't change the fact that a beam of energy is not solid matter and would be broken if someone managed to physically grab and try to whip it.
By gerv
#4962318
Chris Weitzel wrote: December 1st, 2021, 6:14 am
TheManEatingToaster wrote: November 30th, 2021, 11:28 pm
I always thought that Gozer wasn't really a ghost, it didn't die and come back like The Libray Ghost or The Scoreli Brothers.
That may very well be the case, but it still doesn't change the fact that a beam of energy is not solid matter and would be broken if someone managed to physically grab and try to whip it.
Are we really going to down the road of real world vs movie physics? A beam fired from a gun via a backpack energy source thats controllable like in the movie is (currently)impossible in real life, best not to go down that road as movies have their own sense of what's possible.
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By Chris Weitzel
#4962319
gerv wrote: December 1st, 2021, 10:45 am
Chris Weitzel wrote: December 1st, 2021, 6:14 am

That may very well be the case, but it still doesn't change the fact that a beam of energy is not solid matter and would be broken if someone managed to physically grab and try to whip it.
Are we really going to down the road of real world vs movie physics? A beam fired from a gun via a backpack energy source thats controllable like in the movie is (currently)impossible in real life, best not to go down that road as movies have their own sense of what's possible.
I did say in my original comment that I know it is a stupid niggly thing that bothered me about it and that it is just a movie. :)
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By TheManEatingToaster
#4962327
mrmichaelt wrote: November 30th, 2021, 11:25 pm
RichardLess wrote: November 30th, 2021, 10:40 pm Hmm. Interesting. See I don’t think that’s how it works tho. Zuul and Vinz exist before the portal is ever opened, right? They *open* the portal. So why would it’s closure somehow suck them back in? It’s the explosion that does them in, not the portal. GB’s destroy the portal, which causes the portal to close and Mr Stay Puft to explode—from the explosion. Meaning if that portal closes WITHOUT the explosion Vinz & Zuul and Mr. Stay Puft would still be here within this realm. But the explosion does them in. That’s what is shown in the movie.

Again it seems like you are head canoning this to make sense of it. Unless I’m mistaken, which I am 100% capable of being here, your explanation is how you personally are making sense of this right? It’s not stated in some random comic or book, is it? I don’t read those so I can totally be wrong here.

I like your reasoning though for how the ending works for the terror dogs. Because we have to assume they got back to their realm somehow so maybe they were sucked back in. But I don’t think that’s how they thought of it back in 84. Maybe some retconning going on. Which is part of the issue so using Gozer again.

But I still don’t think Gozer just being Gozer as her female form works. Makes me wonder, those of you who say it in the theatre were you or the audience members waiting for the “choose the form” part?
When they're crouched down and Egon points out the door swings both ways so they could reverse the particle flow through the gate by crossing the streams.

And yeah, this next part is what I saw and interpreted. I don' know off the top of my head if anything concrete was said in interviews, comics, books, or what not. So by them doing that, instead of entities and P.K.E. exiting the portal onto Earth, it reverses and pulls all nearby entities and P.K.E. back in. The inherent danger of crossing streams sets off the explosion, the flow reverses and pulls Gozer out as or after Stay Puft is blown up, off screen Zuul and Vinz for forcibly pulled out of their corporeal forms, the said forms turn into lifeless husks in the absence of their spiritual essence, the husks are caught in the explosion but incidentally hard enough to protect Dana and Louis from being killed and are thrown about. This is all happening in those seconds of the explosion.

I thought that's where they got the idea for the conclusion in ATC, however in ATC the reversed flow is more visualized, the equipment used differs, and everything gets put back together where it was unharmed.

Yeah, it's possible and/or likely they didn't have it that worked out in detail back in 1984 (though I suspect Dan did in his head).

And yeah, the same pre-chosen form threw me off at first. I saw in Wayne Haag's concept art - that statue of Gozer by the mine elevator? Looked totally different in concept art. I don't know why they changed it. Were they overly concerned the audience wouldn't get that was Gozer and wanted to put something familiar despite how that creates questions. Also, Gozer's question "Have you come to sacrifice?" or whatever it was threw me off, too because I bet we thought she was gonna say "Choose." So it made me question the scene in the first movie. Does Gozer only make beings choose the destructor form if they attack her? Here, Phoebe tells Gozer some terrible jokes. Gozer's reaction differs and he/she/it mistakes Phoebe as a worshiper come to sacrifice her soul to he/she/it.
From what I understood after watching the movies and reading part of mrmichaelt's explanation, I don't think Stay Puft would stay even if the portal closed without the explosion. He gets caught in the explosion yeah, but Stay Puft is just Gozer in a different form and Gozer is also being sucked in to it's own dimension so even if there wasn't an explosion Stay Puft would still disappear, BUT the Terror Dogs don't need the portal to be on this dimension so they would stay, I think they just need something like the gargoyle looking statue on the building to appear, in Ghostbusters: Afterlife one of them got out of the engravings on the giant door. So even without the explosion Stay Puft would still disappear but the Terror Dogs would still be able to stay so they can just do the ritual again. That's what happens on the temple in the mine, the portal is being closed without there being any explosion and the Terror Dogs are stuck in this loop appearing over and over again from the engravings and Gozer isn't able to cross over.
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By mrmichaelt
#4962338
TheManEatingToaster wrote: December 1st, 2021, 1:13 pm From what I understood after watching the movies and reading part of mrmichaelt's explanation, I don't think Stay Puft would stay even if the portal closed without the explosion. He gets caught in the explosion yeah, but Stay Puft is just Gozer in a different form and Gozer is also being sucked in to it's own dimension so even if there wasn't an explosion Stay Puft would still disappear, BUT the Terror Dogs don't need the portal to be on this dimension so they would stay, I think they just need something like the gargoyle looking statue on the building to appear, in Ghostbusters: Afterlife one of them got out of the engravings on the giant door. So even without the explosion Stay Puft would still disappear but the Terror Dogs would still be able to stay so they can just do the ritual again. That's what happens on the temple in the mine, the portal is being closed without there being any explosion and the Terror Dogs are stuck in this loop appearing over and over again from the engravings and Gozer isn't able to cross over.
I think of Stay Puft (and destructor forms) more as a golem Gozer custom makes for itself. So without Gozer present to give it life, Stay Puft would just fall apart, imo.

Well, we're talking about 2 different channels. The first movie had the temple building and they concentrated their power into the roof cap then opened the doors. In Afterlife, I'd have to watch that part again, but do they show a similar structure? I think the channel was mainly the well of souls. The latter seems like a more full proof way, they can keep coming back like a video game with unlimited lives whereas the former was a one shot deal - once they got pulled in by the reversed particle flow, they couldn't come back.

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