Discuss the upcoming movie to be released in 2020 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4962020
Alphagaia wrote:Crossposting this because it seems more relevant here:

Doesn't Shandor Island alone mess with the canon of Afterlife? In the game, it's owned by the Shandors for centuries until Ivo dies and it sinks in the river and disappears from this realm.

You would think he wanted to buried there instead of near the mine, as it descended right into the spirit world, and you know is his ancestral home in the videogame.
Just my fan fixing idea: Ivo Shandor was initially buried up North, but after the events of the video game, his remains were brought back to Summerville by members of the Gozerian Cult, and through dark rituals, he was restored albeit in a Semi-Corporeal, Zombified state, to be allowed to rise again if/when Gozer were to return. Gozer, remembering that Ivo took the Mandala power for himself promptly destroyed Ivo, and then set out to finish what it started in 1984.

The only question in my mind is why is there a mine all the way in Summerville when all of Ivo's structures are in NYC? My guess is that Ivo did not build the temple in the mine. In my mind, the Gozerian Cult built it after Gozer was defeated in 1984. They harnessed the spectral energy from the sacrifices of the Shandor Mine Co. miners, hoping that it would open a gateway for Gozer to find its way back into our world.
#4962022
philmorgan81 wrote: November 28th, 2021, 12:46 pm
Like someone else here said there is enough evidence on both sides where people could cherry pick off stuff to make the events of the game canon or not canon. For me there is that funny line in the game when the Ghostbusters are on Shandor Island Egon starts admiring the machinary on the island and Winston says, "Stay in the light Egon." Then Egon says, "Trying Winston." Funny line, but I can see Egon getting a little obsessed after the events of the game. After stopping Ivo Shandor and getting rid of what remained of the ghostly minions of the Gozarian Cult, I can even understand Ray not believing Egon. :):):)
Now that Ivo Shandor has been played by J.K. Simmons I can't help but think of those labs as some alternate supernatural based Aperture Science.
#4962040
gerv wrote: November 29th, 2021, 11:33 am People need to accept the game is no longer Canon, and no amount of mental gymnastics and far reaching theories is going to change that fact.
Don't like it then don't count it. If others do, great.

Shandors tomb says he died in 1945, in the Tobin Spirit Guide and most other works he dies in the 30's but both birthdates were 1855. Was his skull found in NYC? Sure maybe...was there an actual Ghostbusters DVD found in Shandor Castle too?...They have a DVD of their life? I guess if your playing TRGB. Both are haunted artifacts, the game doesn't need you to find them to tell the story however.

I like the idea that he faked a death in the 1930's or one of his unnecessary surgery victims was swapped and that body was put in the NY tomb and his real body died a decade later and was taken to the temple in Summerville and hidden. He decayed but when the Summerville Temple became the next point Gozer could come from the spirits from that pit began to reanimate his body though Egon's post packs stopped him from being fully awakened as the other spirits could not get free. Fun stuff to think on.
#4962568
In the next movie I kind of wish they'd bring Alyssa Milano back as her character from the video game. She'd be about the right age if her character was in her mid 20s in 91'. If was writing it I would have her be a historian with expertise in the paranormal, but she wouldn't directly reference the events of the game. Winston or Ray would call her in to help research the current threat.
#4962630
Considering the only reason Milano was in it was because Weaver declined the game initially until she learned the original cast was in it and by then it was too late to redo things as Milano was contracted. I believe even in early scripts Dana was supposed to be the Shandor descendent. Part of why she had so many issues with the paranormal. She and Oscar were the last of the line. In the end I think the Milano story was better but I'm not thinking it's likely they'll bring her back.
#4962673
gerv wrote: November 29th, 2021, 11:33 am People need to accept the game is no longer Canon, and no amount of mental gymnastics and far reaching theories is going to change that fact.
I refuse to accept that because the game was the last time Harold Ramis played Egon and both Ramis and Aykroyd worked on the game's script, it should absolutely be considered an important part of the canon.

It's a shame Jason Reitman didn't seem to see it that way, I assume he's not a gamer, but there's nothing a little imagination can't fix to keep the game canon, I mean Shandor looks like he did in the game pretty much and Gozer killing him so unceremoniously does seem like a subtle reference to the game, so maybe Jason Reitman does consider it canon? It'd be cool if anyone brought this up in interviews.
RealGhostbusterJay liked this
#4962900
Well folks still seem to think he ignored GB2 in this film even though he's said he hasn't as we see the book store and Gigameter is under Egon's diplomas as well as Janine wearing some leopard which is a nod to her coat from 2. For many of us the game is canon, for others the comics from IDW are and to many just the first film happened. We live in a time where fans can accept or reject what they like. Take what you want and leave the rest like a salad bar.
Last edited by RealGhostbusterJay on December 10th, 2021, 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
#4962906
An Invisible Bed wrote: December 4th, 2021, 4:25 pm
gerv wrote: November 29th, 2021, 11:33 am People need to accept the game is no longer Canon, and no amount of mental gymnastics and far reaching theories is going to change that fact.
I refuse to accept that because the game was the last time Harold Ramis played Egon and both Ramis and Aykroyd worked on the game's script, it should absolutely be considered an important part of the canon.

It's a shame Jason Reitman didn't seem to see it that way, I assume he's not a gamer, but there's nothing a little imagination can't fix to keep the game canon, I mean Shandor looks like he did in the game pretty much and Gozer killing him so unceremoniously does seem like a subtle reference to the game, so maybe Jason Reitman does consider it canon? It'd be cool if anyone brought this up in interviews.
The game isn’t canon the same way the cartoon series isn’t canon. It would be absolutely ridiculous if that game were canon. For Christ sakes, the game even ignores the movie canon. They have a picture of Vigo at the HQ!

Ghostbusters isn’t Star Wars or Star Trek. It can’t start taking itself too seriously by worrying about things like canon or continuity.
#4962913
RichardLess wrote: December 7th, 2021, 7:27 am
An Invisible Bed wrote: December 4th, 2021, 4:25 pm

I refuse to accept that because the game was the last time Harold Ramis played Egon and both Ramis and Aykroyd worked on the game's script, it should absolutely be considered an important part of the canon.

It's a shame Jason Reitman didn't seem to see it that way, I assume he's not a gamer, but there's nothing a little imagination can't fix to keep the game canon, I mean Shandor looks like he did in the game pretty much and Gozer killing him so unceremoniously does seem like a subtle reference to the game, so maybe Jason Reitman does consider it canon? It'd be cool if anyone brought this up in interviews.
The game isn’t canon the same way the cartoon series isn’t canon. It would be absolutely ridiculous if that game were canon. For Christ sakes, the game even ignores the movie canon. They have a picture of Vigo at the HQ!

Ghostbusters isn’t Star Wars or Star Trek. It can’t start taking itself too seriously by worrying about things like canon or continuity.
Gold and silver age comics didn't take themselves seriously, but they considered canon an important part of the story telling.
#4962924
joezlo wrote: December 7th, 2021, 10:40 am I missed the leopard print on Janine & the Gigameter.

The game should still be cannon - having it not is kinda disrespectful to Harold.

Afterlife doesn't interfere with the game: in many ways it adds to it, & the comics.
The game's hypotheticals on Gozer and its destructor forms become irreconcilable when you try fit it in with the lore laid down by Afterlife, and it's noted without room for confusion that Shandor is very much dead and his body having rotted away to the point of just being a skeleton in the game's canon.

Had Shandor not been in the new movie, there might've been wiggle room... But as it stands, there isn't.
#4963014
Kingpin wrote: December 7th, 2021, 2:09 pm
joezlo wrote: December 7th, 2021, 10:40 am I missed the leopard print on Janine & the Gigameter.

The game should still be cannon - having it not is kinda disrespectful to Harold.

Afterlife doesn't interfere with the game: in many ways it adds to it, & the comics.
The game's hypotheticals on Gozer and its destructor forms become irreconcilable when you try fit it in with the lore laid down by Afterlife, and it's noted without room for confusion that Shandor is very much dead and his body having rotted away to the point of just being a skeleton in the game's canon.

Had Shandor not been in the new movie, there might've been wiggle room... But as it stands, there isn't.
I still have to disagree there. I am aware the game is not considered canon but for those that do wish it I will once again counter your point that he's found as a dead skeleton in the game. That's a hidden easter egg, like the other items including a Ghostbusters DVD of the movie...so by that law alone I don't count the cursed artifacts as anything but bonus trophy's. At the end of the day people who want to make the game canon in their universe will, so will fans of the cartoon shows and the comics. Is it official? Not at all.
#4963035
Picking and choosing which bits of the game's own canon to accept is not going to make it any more compatible with Afterlife.

Even if you discount the skull, he's very clearly a ghost in the game, he washes his hands of Gozer after the guys turned it into marshmallow spread for a second time, and turns himself into his own god-like entity, before being blown up in the finale.

In Afterlife he's humbly Gozer's follower, makes no indication he's witnessed the world outside of the temple since the 1940s, makes no indication he's ever witnessed Gozer in action before, there's no allusion to Shandor having dealt away with Gozer or made his own destructor form, and no allusion to the Ghostbusters having ever encountered Shandor.

The game exists in a separate continuity. I get this is extremely frustrating, but it is what it is, and there's no disgrace in that. The cartoons and comics and novelisations exist in similar but diverging continuities.
#4963037
Bison256 wrote: December 7th, 2021, 10:30 am
RichardLess wrote: December 7th, 2021, 7:27 am

The game isn’t canon the same way the cartoon series isn’t canon. It would be absolutely ridiculous if that game were canon. For Christ sakes, the game even ignores the movie canon. They have a picture of Vigo at the HQ!

Ghostbusters isn’t Star Wars or Star Trek. It can’t start taking itself too seriously by worrying about things like canon or continuity.
Gold and silver age comics didn't take themselves seriously, but they considered canon an important part of the story telling.
Right but ghostbusters is a comedy movie franchise and not based on a comic book.

Again, I know Dan kept trying to sell the game as the third movie but really it doesn’t jive with what happens in GB2. Otherwise that painting of Vigo wouldn’t be there.

Plus video games are so different from a storytelling perspective I don’t understand why anyone would want it apart of the same continuity. The game has you going thru levels that are designed purely to make player feel like they are a ghostbusters Vs telling a coherent, funny story. Like…your catching Slimer and other ghosts in the hotel again, there’s the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man again. That isn’t done because the story demanded it. It’s done because the makers of the game wanted the player to go thru familiar settings and feel like they are apart of that first movie. And there’s nothing wrong with that, that’s the job of a game. But it doesn’t work as a story in “this is the 3rd film” way. The game is all Ghostbusting all the time. But we know that’s not what ghostbusters movies are like. Nor should they be.

Ghostbusters is largely a character based comedy. And as fun and cool as the game is…it’s not that. So yeah, I guess I’ve just never understood why some fans were fine with calling the game the 3rd film. I get that it’s the last time the original crew are all together and that Harold & Dan contributed…something…to the story. That is cool and special. But we shouldn’t try and force a square peg into a round hole. Movies are movies and games are games. Vastly different style of storytelling done for very different reasons.
jonogunn liked this
#4963042
TVG is just a part of the gb multiverse much like gb2016. It was an awesome game and fun to think if it as canon at the time but now we have REAL movie sequels. I don’t doubt that future movies will contradict the game more. From a creative standpoint they shouldn’t have to be hamstrung because of a video game only known by a small fan base.

Multiverse fixes everything. It’s working for Marvel and DC right now
#4963157
Kingpin wrote: December 8th, 2021, 5:38 pm Picking and choosing which bits of the game's own canon to accept is not going to make it any more compatible with Afterlife.

Even if you discount the skull, he's very clearly a ghost in the game, he washes his hands of Gozer after the guys turned it into marshmallow spread for a second time, and turns himself into his own god-like entity, before being blown up in the finale.

In Afterlife he's humbly Gozer's follower, makes no indication he's witnessed the world outside of the temple since the 1940s, makes no indication he's ever witnessed Gozer in action before, there's no allusion to Shandor having dealt away with Gozer or made his own destructor form, and no allusion to the Ghostbusters having ever encountered Shandor.

The game exists in a separate continuity. I get this is extremely frustrating, but it is what it is, and there's no disgrace in that. The cartoons and comics and novelizations exist in similar but diverging continuities.
We don't see Shandor long enough to notice anything but how he splits when the going gets tough ;) I think game fans can agree that he may have been killed for having betrayed Gozer during TVG events. We keep coming to this but it's simple.

Is the game Canon? No
Can people still enjoy the game on it's own? Yes
Can the plot of the game be worked to fit with Afterlife for one's own "head canon"? Yes IF you actually look at both stories
Will telling people it isn't canon or can't make sense going to change anything? No.

Seriously, this isn't a hill we should be fighting over. I didn't see nor have ANY interest in seeing ATC. I don't tell people it's not canon or can't work with other mediums though. IDW obviously tried to meld them. Are those comics canon? No but people enjoy them. BTW Trek and Wars make TONS of shows and content that are not to be taken as canon and are not serious. Lower Decks, The various Lego shows SW has.
#4963167
RealGhostbusterJay wrote: December 10th, 2021, 7:29 am
Kingpin wrote: December 8th, 2021, 5:38 pm Picking and choosing which bits of the game's own canon to accept is not going to make it any more compatible with Afterlife.

Even if you discount the skull, he's very clearly a ghost in the game, he washes his hands of Gozer after the guys turned it into marshmallow spread for a second time, and turns himself into his own god-like entity, before being blown up in the finale.

In Afterlife he's humbly Gozer's follower, makes no indication he's witnessed the world outside of the temple since the 1940s, makes no indication he's ever witnessed Gozer in action before, there's no allusion to Shandor having dealt away with Gozer or made his own destructor form, and no allusion to the Ghostbusters having ever encountered Shandor.

The game exists in a separate continuity. I get this is extremely frustrating, but it is what it is, and there's no disgrace in that. The cartoons and comics and novelizations exist in similar but diverging continuities.
We don't see Shandor long enough to notice anything but how he splits when the going gets tough ;) I think game fans can agree that he may have been killed for having betrayed Gozer during TVG events. We keep coming to this but it's simple.

Is the game Canon? No
Can people still enjoy the game on it's own? Yes
Can the plot of the game be worked to fit with Afterlife for one's own "head canon"? Yes IF you actually look at both stories
Will telling people it isn't canon or can't make sense going to change anything? No.

Seriously, this isn't a hill we should be fighting over. I didn't see nor have ANY interest in seeing ATC. I don't tell people it's not canon or can't work with other mediums though. IDW obviously tried to meld them. Are those comics canon? No but people enjoy them. BTW Trek and Wars make TONS of shows and content that are not to be taken as canon and are not serious. Lower Decks, The various Lego shows SW has.
I just like to sit back and think of Dan, Ivan & Harold writing their draft of Ghostbusters 1 at Martha’s Vineyard in summer ‘83 and never in their wildest dreams imagining a group of geeks debating the merits of the “Ghostbusters canon”.
#4963169
Considering the original use of word canon relating the evolution Christianity and what we know as the Bible. If my knowledge of history tells me anything will break in seperate sects who will attempt to reconcile at councils. Some will disagree and go live in desert as weird cult. Considering this analogy 2016 fans must be our gnostics.
#4964667
Hello GB fans community!

One of my burning questions are:

Mr Grooberson said that the GB firehouse was now a starbucks, but the end of the movie Winston rocked up in the Firehouse which was empty and pulled in the Ecto 1 to obviously work on it. Wha? Was it or was it not a starbucks, or are we assuming that they left and put the interior back to a dilapidated GB headquarters?

Thanks in advance, not sure if I missed something. Maybe I'll pick it up on a second viewing.
#4964672
My guess is that Dan (not Grooberson) just ad libbed the line as a funny joke and/or the firehouse is a late new addition to the movie they couldn't reshoot the scene. A simple mistake that can be handwaved by Ray being old and misremembering who bought the firehouse from them. (Or perhaps Winston said Star Bucks bought it to hide he actually bought it).
#4964708
My feeling is that it was never a Starbucks. Ray lied about the Firehouse's fate in order to discourage Phoebe, who he'd initially thought to be a Ghostbusters groupie, from going to visit it.

I figure, reading between the lines, that Winston never kept Ray in the dark about what happened to the place, because with Egon gone, Ray would be the only person left who'd be able to keep the Containment Unit operational.
#4964848
All the debate about the canon status of the video game is funny because we got side tracked from my initial question and that's when did the original Ghostbusters go defunct?

I still can't really figure it out for sure, but I am kind of feeling like maybe they went defunct around 2000/2001 given how rundown the firehouse looked, plus it probably would have taken Winston a good 20 years to build up a major business.
#4964851
Eric confirmed it was a Starbucks and Winston bought it after the Summerville battle.

Ray does mention the bad economy so we'd have to look back at historical ones. I think the big subprime crisis in 2007/2008 seems a good candidate for the latest it could have happened and Ray mentions 10 years back he got a postcard from Egon which would be 2011.
#4964880
mrmichaelt wrote: January 6th, 2022, 6:07 pm Eric confirmed it was a Starbucks and Winston bought it after the Summerville battle.
No disrespect meant to Eric, but I'm not buying that.

The Firehouse doesn't look like it was recently vacated, it looks like it hasn't been used in in years.
deadderek liked this
#4964890
Kingpin wrote: January 7th, 2022, 3:16 am No disrespect meant to Eric, but I'm not buying that.

The Firehouse doesn't look like it was recently vacated, it looks like it hasn't been used in in years.
Like I said in the talkback, it was probably the express type you'd see in the drive-through stand alones or inside super market kiosks ad it was built essentially butt up against the front door of the Firehouse and all they did was hook into the Firehouse's utilities but weren't allowed/given access inside. Like in 1990, Lenny declared the firehouse a historical site so it couldn't be knocked down, remodeled, etc. so Starbucks had to go building with a smaller structure and scooching up on what little piece of the property they could.

I would suspect that when Egon and Ray rebuilt the Containment Unit either after they defeated Gozer or after they went back into business in 1989, they devised new measures to prevent the grid from being easily shut down like it was before by just pulling down one switch (yeah, we've seen stuff like that in RGB and IDW) and perhaps even a separate power source that could sustain it indefinitely or least for a couple decades before it would have to be replaced. No way Ray didn't seal the entrance to the basement before the business closed down again..

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