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#4981788
Kingpin wrote: April 29th, 2023, 1:27 pm
Bison256 wrote: April 29th, 2023, 3:16 am

1:Shandor wasn't alive, he was a reanimated corpse full of slime. This is pretty clear in Afterlife, I don't understand why people think he was some how alive.

2: Ghost are a form of energy. Energy can't be destroyed. Shandor lost the extra power he got from the ECU and was banished back to the "ghost world" at the end of the game. In Afterlife his weakened soul came back to his prepared body when the "well of souls" reached the chamber in the mine.
His skull was found by the Rookie in Central Park, and it's description made it clear his physical body had rotted away by 1992.

Plus, I'm pretty sure what you interpret as "slime" was just meant to be some of his internal juices... If Afterlife had been rater higher than 12/PG-13, it would've had a much gorier moment than what was filmed.
Shandor was a pale embalmed corpse with white eyes. He only reanimated when the souls got near the surface of the well. Remember he "deanimated" when it was forced back down? That's in the film.

As for the skull, the source Egon used to create the database was wrong. Easy, besides another collectable is a Blu-ray of the movie with a 4th wall breaking database entree. Don't take the collectables that seriously.
One time liked this
#4981793
Bison256 wrote: April 29th, 2023, 6:48 pm As for the skull, the source Egon used to create the database was wrong.
That's changing the evidence to fit the theory, when it should be a case of changing the theory to fit the evidence.

There's already enough material, even if only on a small scale to make the two incompatible... What's going to happen if the upcoming film introduces even more material that contradicts the video game?
zeta otaku, Hairy Biker liked this
#4981801
Bison256 wrote: April 29th, 2023, 3:16 am
Seth Rex wrote: April 28th, 2023, 9:09 pm 2) Shandor can't be alive and well in his body if he's already well and truly destroyed in the video game. He's not some demi-god like Gozer, he was just a regular ghost that got to form into a destructor.
1:Shandor wasn't alive, he was a reanimated corpse full of slime. This is pretty clear in Afterlife, I don't understand why people think he was some how alive.

2: Ghost are a form of energy. Energy can't be destroyed. Shandor lost the extra power he got from the ECU and was banished back to the "ghost world" at the end of the game. In Afterlife his weakened soul came back to his prepared body when the "well of souls" reached the chamber in the mine.
Whats the source on Shandor being a slime filled corpose?
One time liked this
#4981802
Hairy Biker wrote: April 30th, 2023, 1:48 am Whats the source on Shandor being a slime filled corpse?
I was wondering that, too. I know for sure the puppet itself used for that bisecting scene was filled with slime. Not sure if that was meant to translate to Shandor's body in-universe as well.

Stan Winston School "The Phantasmic Makeup & Creature FX of Ghostbusters: Afterlife" 1/11/2022
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/ ... -interview
Arjen Tuiten says, "We dressed with slime, shot it twice, and that was it. We had it. It was a success, and they loved it."

Yes Have Some YouTube "Jason Reitman Interview - Ghostbusters Afterlife, Franchise Future, Bill Murray!" somewhere at 30 min mark 11/25/2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e8ZOPm8bYY
Jason Reitman says, "...we just filled it with goo and then you just rip it right apart and that was a delight...Well, he got to watch himself get ripped apart which I think was kind of fun, too, you know he actually like got to see his own body rip into which yeah don't we all--"
#4981926
As I've said I consider the 2009 game soft cannon. But said there are many things that bug me about it:

1 Due to Sony's requirements the story is an excuse plot to revisit iconic locations from the first flim.

2 That plot really feels like it was written with the real Ghostbusters versions of the guys in mind. As they act more like those versions than the movie ones.

3 It stretches plausibility that the infrastructure the Shandor cult built would remain undiscovered for 80 years, particularly the massive tunnels under the museum.

Now on things relating to afterlife.

1 Peter seems to be separated from Dana in the game, even if that's temporary, him hitting on another women during that makes him seem like a bigger jerk than normal. While this isn't particularly unrealistic it bothers me.

2 It's already a stretch that Ray wouldn't believe Egon about Summerville. If the video game events happened it's even more inexcusable.
#4982943
Bison256 wrote: May 3rd, 2023, 8:36 am As I've said I consider the 2009 game soft cannon. But said there are many things that bug me about it:

1 Due to Sony's requirements the story is an excuse plot to revisit iconic locations from the first flim.

2 That plot really feels like it was written with the real Ghostbusters versions of the guys in mind. As they act more like those versions than the movie ones.

3 It stretches plausibility that the infrastructure the Shandor cult built would remain undiscovered for 80 years, particularly the massive tunnels under the museum.

Now on things relating to afterlife.

1 Peter seems to be separated from Dana in the game, even if that's temporary, him hitting on another women during that makes him seem like a bigger jerk than normal. While this isn't particularly unrealistic it bothers me.

2 It's already a stretch that Ray wouldn't believe Egon about Summerville. If the video game events happened it's even more inexcusable.
If I remember rightly, they tried to get Sigourney back to reprise her role as Dana Barrett/Dana Barrett Venkman, but Sigourney turned it down as I think she was doing her parts in Avatar at the time so they changed it to the character that eventually brought in Alyssa Milano (who was not a great voice over artist at all imho, she was just very cardboardy when it came to voicing) and they (Dan/Harold) had to change it to the character being a descendent of Ivo Shandor.
One time liked this
#4983457
Bison256 wrote: June 7th, 2023, 4:54 pm Between the two bad choices I prefer that Dana not be a Shandor.
I disagree with that. I think GB1, GB2 and GBTVG are a perfect trilogy. The river of slime related to the sloar, the library ghost Eleanor Twitty, how it links GB1 and GB2 together, etc.

And people can say what they want, I keep going back to this:

We will never have a GB1 immersion experience that is as close as GBTVG (due to Harold's death). Be it how you are teamed up with select GB's in singles and pairs, how they riff off of each other and you.... it's just so well thought out.

That one mission where you are alone with Winston and really understand the character so much more. Or the level where you are paired with Ray and Egon and are a part of their own banter. The level where you are alone with Ray. When you are alone with Venkman... then again when it's Ray Egon and Peter and then all four.

The way they designed those levels and that dialogue they really put you in GB1, interacting reactively with those specific characters. The decision to have Welsh completely silent was genius in my opinion. Having the guys react to what you do as opposed to what you say. You, the Rookie, could really be anyone.

Yeah you can blast through it in 12 hours(still a very long experience), but exploring every nook and cranny and getting all the dialogue took me 60 hrs. Imagine being in, actually in, GB1 for 12-60 hours. I say GB1 but it's more like GB1+GB2+Dan's original crazy draft script with the ghost realm, etc.

I have played through it often these past 14 years and to this day I still get dialogue that I'd not heard before.

I believe that attention to detail and immersion is why it's so loved. We (GB1&GB2 lovers) really will never get that again, again due to the death of Harold and the franchise having moved beyond those 4 guys.
philmorgan81 liked this
#4983471
One time wrote: June 9th, 2023, 2:26 pm
Bison256 wrote: June 7th, 2023, 4:54 pm Between the two bad choices I prefer that Dana not be a Shandor.
I disagree with that. I think GB1, GB2 and GBTVG are a perfect trilogy. The river of slime related to the sloar, the library ghost Eleanor Twitty, how it links GB1 and GB2 together, etc.

And people can say what they want, I keep going back to this:

We will never have a GB1 immersion experience that is as close as GBTVG (due to Harold's death). Be it how you are teamed up with select GB's in singles and pairs, how they riff off of each other and you.... it's just so well thought out.

That one mission where you are alone with Winston and really understand the character so much more. Or the level where you are paired with Ray and Egon and are a part of their own banter. The level where you are alone with Ray. When you are alone with Venkman... then again when it's Ray Egon and Peter and then all four.

The way they designed those levels and that dialogue they really put you in GB1, interacting reactively with those specific characters. The decision to have Welsh completely silent was genius in my opinion. Having the guys react to what you do as opposed to what you say. You, the Rookie, could really be anyone.

Yeah you can blast through it in 12 hours(still a very long experience), but exploring every nook and cranny and getting all the dialogue took me 60 hrs. Imagine being in, actually in, GB1 for 12-60 hours. I say GB1 but it's more like GB1+GB2+Dan's original crazy draft script with the ghost realm, etc.

I have played through it often these past 14 years and to this day I still get dialogue that I'd not heard before.

I believe that attention to detail and immersion is why it's so loved. We (GB1&GB2 lovers) really will never get that again, again due to the death of Harold and the franchise having moved beyond those 4 guys.

Oh yeah the attention to detail in that game was awesome. To me Ghostbusters The Video Game will always be Ghostbusters 3. Hey I believe that the 2009 video game on all ports was so well received that is why we got to enjoy the IDW comic series. I have my doubts that we would have ever enjoyed that comics run if not for the success of the 2009 video game.

Even though the officials at Ghost Corps do not consider it canon, to me it will always be canon. To me the 2009 video game will always be the ideal Ghostbusters gaming experience. :):):)
One time liked this
#4983593
philmorgan81 wrote: June 9th, 2023, 5:13 pm
One time wrote: June 9th, 2023, 2:26 pm

I disagree with that. I think GB1, GB2 and GBTVG are a perfect trilogy. The river of slime related to the sloar, the library ghost Eleanor Twitty, how it links GB1 and GB2 together, etc.

And people can say what they want, I keep going back to this:

We will never have a GB1 immersion experience that is as close as GBTVG (due to Harold's death). Be it how you are teamed up with select GB's in singles and pairs, how they riff off of each other and you.... it's just so well thought out.

That one mission where you are alone with Winston and really understand the character so much more. Or the level where you are paired with Ray and Egon and are a part of their own banter. The level where you are alone with Ray. When you are alone with Venkman... then again when it's Ray Egon and Peter and then all four.

The way they designed those levels and that dialogue they really put you in GB1, interacting reactively with those specific characters. The decision to have Welsh completely silent was genius in my opinion. Having the guys react to what you do as opposed to what you say. You, the Rookie, could really be anyone.

Yeah you can blast through it in 12 hours(still a very long experience), but exploring every nook and cranny and getting all the dialogue took me 60 hrs. Imagine being in, actually in, GB1 for 12-60 hours. I say GB1 but it's more like GB1+GB2+Dan's original crazy draft script with the ghost realm, etc.

I have played through it often these past 14 years and to this day I still get dialogue that I'd not heard before.

I believe that attention to detail and immersion is why it's so loved. We (GB1&GB2 lovers) really will never get that again, again due to the death of Harold and the franchise having moved beyond those 4 guys.

Oh yeah the attention to detail in that game was awesome. To me Ghostbusters The Video Game will always be Ghostbusters 3. Hey I believe that the 2009 video game on all ports was so well received that is why we got to enjoy the IDW comic series. I have my doubts that we would have ever enjoyed that comics run if not for the success of the 2009 video game.

Even though the officials at Ghost Corps do not consider it canon, to me it will always be canon. To me the 2009 video game will always be the ideal Ghostbusters gaming experience. :):):)
Amen to that. I'd even go as far as saying; it's the ideal Ghostbusters experience period... and sadly (in a way) will ever be, due to Harold.
philmorgan81 liked this
#4995296
I WISH it was canon, it really deserves to be as it fits so well as a third movie, it feels weird for it to be ignored since it was written by Dan and Harold and was the last time they all played the characters, so you just... ignore it?

I mean to some degree I get it, most audiences aren't going to know it and it would be confusing, but I also don't see what would be the harm including it and having a few nods.

I've heard the new Furiosa movie considers the 2015 Mad Max game canon, that's how it should be done.

That said, it fits well enough in with Afterlife, Shandor's design looks just like the game's and Gozer tears him apart seemingly in anger at betrayal, it seems like it's a clear reference, as for Shandor's skull in the game well, what if it's a forgery to specifically throw people off and think he's dead?

But now with Frozen Empire there's more contradictions, Ray spots the library ghost even though they went back and caught her in the 2009 game, but since he's the only one that sees her, maybe it was his imagination?

However Egon remodeled the containment unit in the game and it's a big plot point in Frozen Empire that it not only looks the same, but has been in use for 40 years, hmmm.

Also the news report at the beginning seems to imply II was the last big public event, meanwhile in the game Stay Puft Man returns, central park is turned into a graveyard and an island pops out of the ocean nearby, maybe New Yorkers just have bad memories in the world of Ghostbusters lol.

What is the source of someone officially saying the game is not canon? Either way, I choose to pretend it is, it's all fiction anyway after all.

Here's one of way looking at things, since parallel dimensions are a plot point all the way back to the first movie, maybe Ghostbusters is a multiverse ala Marvel, so EVERYTHING is canon, but not necessarily in the same "universe"
#4995298
An Invisible Bed wrote: March 24th, 2024, 11:04 pm Here's one of way looking at things, since parallel dimensions are a plot point all the way back to the first movie, maybe Ghostbusters is a multiverse ala Marvel, so EVERYTHING is canon, but not necessarily in the same "universe"
I asked Eric Reich, SVP, Brand Management at Ghost Corps, and posted the email at this forum years ago after Afterlife came out.
Hairy Biker liked this
#4995329
An Invisible Bed wrote: March 24th, 2024, 11:04 pmit feels weird for it to be ignored since it was written by Dan and Harold
I could be mistaken, but it's my understanding that Dan and Harold added polish to the game's story and to give it greater authenticity in how the science sounded, while the bulk of the plot was written by Flint Dille, John Zuur Platten, John Melchior & Patrick Hegarty.
#4995330
Kingpin wrote:
I could be mistaken, but it's my understanding that Dan and Harold added polish to the game's story and to give it greater authenticity in how the science sounded, while the bulk of the plot was written by Flint Dille, John Zuur Platten, John Melchior & Patrick Hegarty.
https://www.spookcentral.tk/2023/01/21/ ... ene-script
Flint and I [John Zuur Platten] did the first draft (and three additional drafts) of the Ghostbusters game script while it was in development at Sierra. Dan and Harold were part of the approval process at that point, but gave us very little input other than some high level notes. The big issue was "would Bill Murray be involved or not", which meant we did a draft that wrote out Venkman in the first scene. Of course, once we had done our drafts, Harold and Dan did a "punch up", re-writing mostly dialogue (which both Flint and I think was great - it was an honor to play in their world).

John Melchior was an executive at Sierra on the project, and came up with some of the ideas. He was not involved in writing with us, but appears to have made some contributions. Patrick we never met (not unusual in this business). He may have been involved directly with Terminal Reality (who we met early on in the process).

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/arts/31schi.html
They gave me [Dan Aykroyd] the script. I took it. I rewrote it doing little tiny structural things, mostly bringing back the tone of the original dialogue and the vernacular - the terms, the idiom - but they really had it. Two-thirds of it was there. Then they gave it to Harold. He did the same thing.
Kingpin, Hairy Biker liked this
#4995368
mrmichaelt wrote: March 24th, 2024, 11:11 pm
An Invisible Bed wrote: March 24th, 2024, 11:04 pm Here's one of way looking at things, since parallel dimensions are a plot point all the way back to the first movie, maybe Ghostbusters is a multiverse ala Marvel, so EVERYTHING is canon, but not necessarily in the same "universe"
I asked Eric Reich, SVP, Brand Management at Ghost Corps, and posted the email at this forum years ago after Afterlife came out.
That's disappointing, but I'd be curious to hear what Jason Reitman or Gil Kenan have to say personally about it.

Either way it's a canon story to me personally.
#4995607
The 2009 Video Game's story makes it virtually impossible to remain within the Movie Continuity timeline. Thankfully, it remained in the IDW Comics timeline... <3 (The IDW Comics timeline is home to the Ghostbusters multiverse after all.)

The major issue with adding that Video Game to the timeline is that the whole plot of Afterlife hinges upon Ray, Peter, and Winston not believing Egon that Gozer was to return. The events of the Video Game demonstrate there were multiple setups made by the Cult of Gozer to ensure Gozer's return. So, in the Video Game continuity, there's no rational reason for the guys to doubt Egon when he states he's discovered the location of another Cult of Gozer resurrection temple. However, without the video game, it becomes more believable the guys would believe Egon's reaching at straws. (As we saw in Afterlife.)

We just started playing Spirits Unleashed.

Spirits Unleashed is an interesting topic for being within movie cannon. Since IllFonic already changed the ending cutscene from the original version to make the game's ending within movie cannon based upon a spoiler-free version of Frozen Empire coming to theaters.

The original ending just mentioned Ghostbustin' never ends and things would continue in the Firehouse.

The current ending (I do not have a completed story save yet so I don't know if yesterday's Frozen Empire changed the ending... so ending as of two days ago ways):
  • Winston mentioned the Spenglers are moving into the third floor
  • Ray hints Podcast is working with him for the summer (without directly naming him)
I am assuming yesterday's update did not change the ending so there's three key elements which the story's ending needs to address to become in cannon:
  • Winston has to mention the Research Lab is about to be opened
  • Winston not only has to mention the Spenglers are moving in but are taking over Ghostbustin'
  • Winston has to mention the team is migrating to the Research Lab
Unfortunately, there's one major point which keeps the movie outside of cannon. It likely would require paid-DLC as it essentially would require extensive voice over work.
  • Replace Eddie with Lars Pinfield (including recording with James Acaster)
I cannot see replacing Mike Haimoto's Dr. Edmund Chan without some way to allow replays of the story mode. The replays of the story mode (which would allow for Speedruns to be done one PC) would require an option to play through either the version created by IllFonic OR the more Movie Cannonical one.

I feel it would be a huge diservice to cut Mike Haimoto and the talent he brought to Dr. Edmund Chan completely out (even if I personally would prefer to play a version with James Acaster's Lars Pinfield.)

The Ghost extractor being made by Lars instead of Eddie would pretty much seal the in-cannon. It would make perfect sense what he said to Phobe when she inquired about Human tests and the Extraction Chamber.
Kingpin liked this
#4995617
UncannyGirl wrote: March 27th, 2024, 12:57 pm The 2009 Video Game's story makes it virtually impossible to remain within the Movie Continuity timeline. Thankfully, it remained in the IDW Comics timeline... <3 (The IDW Comics timeline is home to the Ghostbusters multiverse after all.)

The major issue with adding that Video Game to the timeline is that the whole plot of Afterlife hinges upon Ray, Peter, and Winston not believing Egon that Gozer was to return. The events of the Video Game demonstrate there were multiple setups made by the Cult of Gozer to ensure Gozer's return. So, in the Video Game continuity, there's no rational reason for the guys to doubt Egon when he states he's discovered the location of another Cult of Gozer resurrection temple. However, without the video game, it becomes more believable the guys would believe Egon's reaching at straws. (As we saw in Afterlife.)

We just started playing Spirits Unleashed.

Spirits Unleashed is an interesting topic for being within movie cannon. Since IllFonic already changed the ending cutscene from the original version to make the game's ending within movie cannon based upon a spoiler-free version of Frozen Empire coming to theaters.

The original ending just mentioned Ghostbustin' never ends and things would continue in the Firehouse.

The current ending (I do not have a completed story save yet so I don't know if yesterday's Frozen Empire changed the ending... so ending as of two days ago ways):
  • Winston mentioned the Spenglers are moving into the third floor
  • Ray hints Podcast is working with him for the summer (without directly naming him)
I am assuming yesterday's update did not change the ending so there's three key elements which the story's ending needs to address to become in cannon:
  • Winston has to mention the Research Lab is about to be opened
  • Winston not only has to mention the Spenglers are moving in but are taking over Ghostbustin'
  • Winston has to mention the team is migrating to the Research Lab
Unfortunately, there's one major point which keeps the movie outside of cannon. It likely would require paid-DLC as it essentially would require extensive voice over work.
  • Replace Eddie with Lars Pinfield (including recording with James Acaster)
I cannot see replacing Mike Haimoto's Dr. Edmund Chan without some way to allow replays of the story mode. The replays of the story mode (which would allow for Speedruns to be done one PC) would require an option to play through either the version created by IllFonic OR the more Movie Cannonical one.

I feel it would be a huge diservice to cut Mike Haimoto and the talent he brought to Dr. Edmund Chan completely out (even if I personally would prefer to play a version with James Acaster's Lars Pinfield.)

The Ghost extractor being made by Lars instead of Eddie would pretty much seal the in-cannon. It would make perfect sense what he said to Phobe when she inquired about Human tests and the Extraction Chamber.
I think it's possible to fit the video game in, so I wont go into it again. But as far as spirits unleashed goes you wouldn't need to replace Eddie with Lars. Why not add some dialogue in which Eddie refers to Lars as his superior?
#4995757
I haven't done the new update to the Spirits Unleashed game yet but have seen Frozen Empire 2 times now. While the firehouse is more put together it does indeed look different especially the containment unit basement in the film so I mean its sort of like the 2009 game to me. If you can work a theory for your head or soft cannon where these work then have a great time making that work.
#4998758
Honestly, I think each medium is sort of its own canon in any franchise.

Movies and live action TV are the A Canon and then everything else is its own sort level, even though they are usually designed to at least atmospherically mimic whatever the current A Canon is.

My take: enjoy it all, trust only live action.

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