Discuss Ghostbusters: Afterlife, released on November 19, 2021 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4985432
I'll have to keep a look out. Might have to check my pantry for stale marshmallow bags, never know what's hidden behind something. I think there's at least one firecamp bag I didn't get to. Lol. It would be nice if we get that promotion again! Also, reporters not asking follow up questions, and difficult questions ? Color me shocked!
(if that's a neighborhood Walmart, that is something strange.)
#4985435
timeware wrote: August 24th, 2023, 9:04 am I'll have to keep a look out. Might have to check my pantry for stale marshmallow bags, never know what's hidden behind something. I think there's at least one firecamp bag I didn't get to. Lol. It would be nice if we get that promotion again! Also, reporters not asking follow up questions, and difficult questions ? Color me shocked!
(if that's a neighborhood Walmart, that is something strange.)
It's my local Walmart.
timeware liked this
#4986232
Anyone else think Ray is in shock after he hears Egon is dead (in AF)

When Phoebe calls him from prison.

I get a strange feeling that as he is rattling off what Venkman is doing at SUNY, describing Winston, etc. it seems like he is in shock the moment he hears Egon died. His eyes kind of glaze over, while he keeps talking.

What do others think?
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#4986267
I feel Ray and Egon had a close relationship while working together on growing their understanding of the supernatural, while the rogue Venkman was just in it for the babes!

I think Ray is bitter because he feels Egon had let him down, but when he hears of Egon's death, it hits him hard... You never want to end a once great friendship like that.
#4986270
One time wrote: October 3rd, 2023, 8:11 pm Anyone else think Ray is in shock after he hears Egon is dead (in AF)

When Phoebe calls him from prison.

I get a strange feeling that as he is rattling off what Venkman is doing at SUNY, describing Winston, etc. it seems like he is in shock the moment he hears Egon died. His eyes kind of glaze over, while he keeps talking.

What do others think?
I can forgive a lot in the movie. I can forgive mini pufts making zero sense. I can forgive making Gozer waaay less cool, But the situation they came up with for Ray and Egon is just so against the characters and what they stood for. I can live with Egon and Ray not being friends anymore. Maybe they lost track of each other after Ray took a job somewhere. That happens all the time to people. Hell it happened between Dana & Venkman in GB2. It’s not what I would do with the story but I could’ve lived with it. I could understand it. Accept it.

But Ray not believing in Egon…my jaw hurts from picking it up off the floor everytime I’ve watched the movie & that scene happens. That I cannot understand, I cannot accept. Out all of the things they could’ve done they picked the stupidest, lousiest most disrespectful reason for Ray & Egon to split. Plus They literally got it backwards. RAY should’ve been the one who was all “Gozer is coming back” and Egon, who’s Spock but with Ghosts: would’ve been logical about it.

You couldn’t f**k up a relationship between two established characters if you tried. It’s indefensible.

Do I think Ray was in shock? I wish, I wish I could buy the filmmakers giving anything in this movie that much thought.

It’s a cliche & I hate repeating it but the truth is the truth & facts are facts. GBA should’ve been called GBM. For Ghostbusters Memberberries.

My theory? Jason Reitman had made dud after dud. No one was aching to make the next Jason Reitman film. Making a Ghostbusters movie was a way to get a fairly easy hit under his belt and give him some leverage to make the kind of films he wants. Now there’s nothing wrong with that, plenty of directors do a “one for them, one for me” sort of thing.

My favourite part of the entire GBA experience was getting to see snippets of how proud Ivan was that his son was carrying on in his fathers footsteps. They seemed to have a father son experience making GBA that most people can only dream about. And if that brought Ivan peace knowing his greatest creative endeavour and legacy was in the hands of his son? It was all worth it. Cause that’s a beautiful thing.
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#4986311
RichardLess wrote: October 4th, 2023, 8:51 pmBut Ray not believing in Egon…my jaw hurts from picking it up off the floor everytime I’ve watched the movie & that scene happens. That I cannot understand, I cannot accept.
I can understand Ray's response... He doesn't hide the frustration he felt with Egon's growing detachment to Ghostbusters, that Ray perceived Egon as not pulling the same weight that Ray, Peter and Winston were pulling to keep the business going, and Egon dismissing the jobs that they were getting... Which while were a low priority when compared to the return of Gozer, were still the main source of income for the team. We'd all feel frustrated if someone who was a friend and an equal partner in our job was growing more and more detached and less invested in keeping the job operating.

And then there's the perceived change in Egon's behaviour.

Ray was used to Egon largely being the no-nonsense type... Sure, he would've picked up on the other facets of Egon's personality such as those moments where the more mischevious side would show itself, but to Ray and the others Egon was the one of them who usually kept a level head... Even when confronted with the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man, Egon's overstimulation in that situation (like Phoebe) left him momentarily stunned, but not panicking... And able to report his state of mind to the others.

Ray did not know Egon as being extremely dismissive, nor to ramble about "the rising storm" and "the huge psychic tornado" that was going to "consume humanity in darkness forever." The only time we saw something equivocal to that was when he was talking to the others when they were in jail, and his "Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes..." remark in front of the Mayor... And that was only after Ray had already opened the door of doomsday prophecy to try convince the Mayor of the danger they faced.

Whereas if Egon was making those remarks, and he wasn't presenting the evidence to back them up, I can understand why Ray might've found it more difficult to believe him.
It seems apparent Egon hadn't mentioned Gozer's involvement in the new threat when he was talking to the other Ghostbusters about what was occupying his mind, because Ray doesn't mention Gozer either directly or indirectly in his conversation with Phoebe at all... Nor that Summerville was connected to Shandor. I'm willing to bet if Egon had provided those details, Ray's who approach would've been substantially different.

If a friend you'd had for years who was the no-nonsense, scientific, calm type suddenly started acting erratic, dismissive, and making unsettling claims about the end of the world... But didn't provide the evidence of that conclusion, I think a lot of us would've taken a similar approach to Ray.

I'm not keen on how Egon was written as dismissive and increasingly eccentric in his final year/s in New York before he moved to Summerville... I wish a different approach could've been taken, but this is how the story's played out.
#4986319
Kingpin wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:30 am
RichardLess wrote: October 4th, 2023, 8:51 pmBut Ray not believing in Egon…my jaw hurts from picking it up off the floor everytime I’ve watched the movie & that scene happens. That I cannot understand, I cannot accept.
I can understand Ray's response... He doesn't hide the frustration he felt with Egon's growing detachment to Ghostbusters, that Ray perceived Egon as not pulling the same weight that Ray, Peter and Winston were pulling to keep the business going, and Egon dismissing the jobs that they were getting... Which while were a low priority when compared to the return of Gozer, were still the main source of income for the team. We'd all feel frustrated if someone who was a friend and an equal partner in our job was growing more and more detached and less invested in keeping the job operating.

And then there's the perceived change in Egon's behaviour.

Ray was used to Egon largely being the no-nonsense type... Sure, he would've picked up on the other facets of Egon's personality such as those moments where the more mischevious side would show itself, but to Ray and the others Egon was the one of them who usually kept a level head... Even when confronted with the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man, Egon's overstimulation in that situation (like Phoebe) left him momentarily stunned, but not panicking... And able to report his state of mind to the others.

Ray did not know Egon as being extremely dismissive, nor to ramble about "the rising storm" and "the huge psychic tornado" that was going to "consume humanity in darkness forever." The only time we saw something equivocal to that was when he was talking to the others when they were in jail, and his "Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes..." remark in front of the Mayor... And that was only after Ray had already opened the door of doomsday prophecy to try convince the Mayor of the danger they faced.

Whereas if Egon was making those remarks, and he wasn't presenting the evidence to back them up, I can understand why Ray might've found it more difficult to believe him.
It seems apparent Egon hadn't mentioned Gozer's involvement in the new threat when he was talking to the other Ghostbusters about what was occupying his mind, because Ray doesn't mention Gozer either directly or indirectly in his conversation with Phoebe at all... Nor that Summerville was connected to Shandor. I'm willing to bet if Egon had provided those details, Ray's who approach would've been substantially different.

If a friend you'd had for years who was the no-nonsense, scientific, calm type suddenly started acting erratic, dismissive, and making unsettling claims about the end of the world... But didn't provide the evidence of that conclusion, I think a lot of us would've taken a similar approach to Ray.

I'm not keen on how Egon was written as dismissive and increasingly eccentric in his final year/s in New York before he moved to Summerville... I wish a different approach could've been taken, but this is how the story's played out.
“This is how the story played out”. Yeah. I mean…that’s the problem. I don’t buy it. I don’t buy Egon turning into someone who writes signs and graffiti about bible passages and prophecies. It’s similar to the issue I have about Luke in the Star Wars sequels. Changing characters to be fundamentally different and opposite from what they were isn’t a good idea.

They contrived a story and bent the characters to support it. That’s bad writing 101. Egon is what he is and he is a very internalized, Spock like character. You can say “well he changed in the years we didn’t see” but unless he had a stroke it’s not Egon.

If Egon was talking that shit about rising storms…Ray would be all over it. He’d be like a slobbering dog at dinner time. The words “he went crazy” would not be in Ray Stanz vocabulary.

The filmmakers wanted to see a story about the Spengler family in the Midwest inheriting Egon’s legacy as a Ghostbuster.

It’s not coincidence that everything good or great about GBA is everything new and everything that sucks is the fan service old stuff.

Most of the new characters are awesome. Gunner seat? Awesome. Remote control trap? Awesome. Using a spirit for something other than busting? Cool. I love the Egon ghost communicating with Phoebe.

But Egon, the OGB’s, Gozer, Shandor, and the mini pufts. All those elements are the weak parts that sink the movie and bring it down. None of them raise the movie and make it better. That isn’t to say that couldn’t have been the case. Those elements could’ve worked. But in the movie we got it most definitely does not. I get that not everyone feels that way, but that’s just my take.

I actually kinda think the movie would’ve benefited from the family being a random family that moves into a new cheap house and not the “Spengler family”. Egon’s ghost still communicates. But the whole Spengler had a daughter and was an absentee dad just doesn’t work for me. That feels like Jason shoehorning in drama because that’s his thing. At least this way we could lose the saccharine “Egon’s spirit crosses over” sequence that I can’t stand. Again I get many a year was shed at that moment but it just rang hollow for me. A CGI Harold Ramis was not something the movie earned in the least.


I do like that gunner seat sequence though. Just wish the whole movie had that energy & hutzpah
#4986320
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pm I don’t buy Egon turning into someone who writes signs and graffiti about bible passages and prophecies. It’s similar to the issue I have about Luke in the Star Wars sequels. Changing characters to be fundamentally different and opposite from what they were isn’t a good idea.
I think it was more his way of making the town think one way about him and keep their distance while he made his preparations. But on the other hand, we're talking about a person who was going to drill his head.

RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pm If Egon was talking that shit about rising storms…Ray would be all over it. He’d be like a slobbering dog at dinner time. The words “he went crazy” would not be in Ray Stanz vocabulary.
Like Kingpin says, probably similar to when he was reciting the Tobin passage about Shandor in prison. By the time that communication took place, what was it like a decade later or so, Ray was just languishing in his bookstore stuck on being angry and bitter so he wasn't listening with a clear mind. And ahem, "Stantz".

RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pm At least this way we could lose the saccharine “Egon’s spirit crosses over” sequence that I can’t stand. Again I get many a year was shed at that moment but it just rang hollow for me. A CGI Harold Ramis was not something the movie earned in the least.
Just wow. I can't believe someone said that.
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#4986327
mrmichaelt wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:43 pm
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pm I don’t buy Egon turning into someone who writes signs and graffiti about bible passages and prophecies. It’s similar to the issue I have about Luke in the Star Wars sequels. Changing characters to be fundamentally different and opposite from what they were isn’t a good idea.
I think it was more his way of making the town think one way about him and keep their distance while he made his preparations. But on the other hand, we're talking about a person who was going to drill his head.

RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pm If Egon was talking that shit about rising storms…Ray would be all over it. He’d be like a slobbering dog at dinner time. The words “he went crazy” would not be in Ray Stanz vocabulary.
Like Kingpin says, probably similar to when he was reciting the Tobin passage about Shandor in prison. By the time that communication took place, what was it like a decade later or so, Ray was just languishing in his bookstore stuck on being angry and bitter so he wasn't listening with a clear mind. And ahem, "Stantz".

RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pm At least this way we could lose the saccharine “Egon’s spirit crosses over” sequence that I can’t stand. Again I get many a year was shed at that moment but it just rang hollow for me. A CGI Harold Ramis was not something the movie earned in the least.
Just wow. I can't believe someone said that.
Are you being sarcastic when u say you can’t believe I don’t think the Egon crossing over bit was earned? That it was saccharine? Not sure if you were serious or not since I don’t think I’m saying anything new or that wasn’t said in dozens of reviews. It was a scene designed to make fans weep & im fundamentally against the usage of Harold Ramis’s likeness in any scenario where comedy wasn’t the ultimate goal. Comedy and irreverence. This was anything but. It actually disgusts me on some level. I know his daughter was cool with it. That’s fine.




To be fair Egon wasn’t out of his mind about the drilling a hole in his head. That was a legit medical thing done back in the day called Trepanation.

And Ray being stuck in his book store whilst angry and bitter? You really think Ray would be angry or bitter? The most angry or bitter thing he ever said was “ungrateful little yuppie larva”. He loved doing kids parties! Did it with a smile on his face and a song in his heart. Ray is not the angry or bitter type(so long as mood slime isn’t involved). Ray working at the book store is something he’d love. Interacting with people about the occult and paranormal?? I just don’t see him being angry or bitter.

What do you mean similar to the prison scene where he was reciting Tobin spirit guide? I’m not sure I see the connection.

As for the signage and graffiti, wouldn’t that just draw MORE attention? I know in the town I grew up in, if someone was writing prophetic messages and bible passages outside of their creepy house, people would be super interested and kids would be like “we have to see this”.

True story time: There was a graveyard right beside my middle school and within this graveyard was a gravestone from the 1880s with an epitaph that read “Upon my rise revenge shall be mine whence the planet align ”— with a weird symbol next to it. Everyone knew about it, talked about it & wanted to see it when they were first told about it. I always wondered if it was some 1880s person with a sense of humour trying to creep people out. In fact the creepiest thing that’s ever happened to me happened while a group of my friends & i were showing these girls the gravestone for the first time. It was dark & It was always hard to find for some reason so we had flashlights to locate it. It was one of those in the ground stones. More like a marker. Fallen leaves & grass would always partially cover it. Anyways here we are looking for the grave in the general area it’s suppose to be in when all of a sudden my buddy SCREAMS for help. I’ll never forget the sound he made. Made me feel sick in the pit of my stomach. When I got to him he was on the ground having a full blown seizure. Eyes rolling in the back of this head, twitching. i stuck a branch in his mouth so he wouldn’t bite his tongue off. None of us had cellphones at the time(this would’ve been circa 2001) so one of my buddies started run to their nearest house for help & a phone. Luckily the seizure stopped & he was okay. As we were helping him up one of the girls freaked out. And I mean freaked out. The seizure had happened, and this is true, right smack on top of the grave we were looking for. Now of course some em thought it was a paranormal experience but in reality it was probably the flashlights that set him off. Turned out my friend suffered from epilepsy & hadn’t told anyone. As the years passed of course this story grew and grew with each telling. All of a sudden people were adding touches like he was speaking Latin during the seizure or we demonic heard laughter, or even that a priest just happened to be at the graveyard doing a burial and performed some sort of exorcism lol. Each telling got more and more fanciful.

Anyways I’m telling that story to show that people get curious about creepy shit. Teenagers especially. So I don’t think Egon’s plan wouldve worked to keep people away. It would have the opposite effect.
#4986329
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 10:45 pm Are you being sarcastic when u say you can’t believe I don’t think the Egon crossing over bit was earned? That it was saccharine? Not sure if you were serious or not since I don’t think I’m saying anything new or that wasn’t said in dozens of reviews. It was a scene designed to make fans weep & im fundamentally against the usage of Harold Ramis’s likeness in any scenario where comedy wasn’t the ultimate goal. Comedy and irreverence. This was anything but. It actually disgusts me on some level. I know his daughter was cool with it. That’s fine.
No sarcasm in that reply at all.

So you admit you keep saying the same thing over and over. Gotcha! :P

RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 10:45 pm And Ray being stuck in his book store whilst angry and bitter? You really think Ray would be angry or bitter? The most angry or bitter thing he ever said was “ungrateful little yuppie larva”. He loved doing kids parties! Did it with a smile on his face and a song in his heart. Ray is not the angry or bitter type(so long as mood slime isn’t involved). Ray working at the book store is something he’d love. Interacting with people about the occult and paranormal?? I just don’t see him being angry or bitter.
Talking about between the end of GB2 and Afterlife. When Phoebe calls up Ray, he's angry and bitter until she tells him Egon died. Am I wrong here, anyone else at this forum?

RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 10:45 pm What do you mean similar to the prison scene where he was reciting Tobin spirit guide? I’m not sure I see the connection.
He gets a bit too into it while he's reciting the passage about Ivo, imo.

RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 10:45 pm As for the signage and graffiti, wouldn’t that just draw MORE attention? I know in the town I grew up in, if someone was writing prophetic messages and bible passages outside of their creepy house, people would be super interested and kids would be like “we have to see this”.
Perhaps. But the signs seem to have worked at keeping people away. Like when Podcast is surprised Phoebe lives at the property and he starts recording just in case. It's ingrained in his generation to avoid that property.
#4986332
I do wish they had a better explanation for why Ray did not believe Egon. This is really my only complaint about the movie.

I think they can add more context to it. Like Kingpin mentioned Ray never brings up Gozer in the phone call. So did Egon know Gozer was returning or just that something bad was happening? He called again years later which you’d think he figured it out by then. They might not but I hope they elaborate on it a little more in the next one. Just to kind of fill in the blanks.

Him growing apart and becoming focused on something else is believable though. The explanation just needed work. Him having a kid is definitely believable. Any of them could have had a previous relationship that ended before they became GBs. It’s a perfect reason for why they’d breakup with them...except for Winston...they studied the supernatural. Most everyone would view it as a waste of time with no career in it.
#4986333
This is starting to veer too far away from the original question One time had posed, so I probably will merge this with the existing "Ghostbusters: Afterlife" Feature Talkback Thread, in a little bit.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmI don’t buy Egon turning into someone who writes signs and graffiti about bible passages and prophecies.
I think it's safe to conclude the signs Egon had posted at the edge of the farmhouse property were his attempt at set dressing, deterrents to the people of Summerville to either keep them safe or to prevent them from distracting him from his work... Rather than a sign of Egon's mental state.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmIt’s not coincidence that everything good or great about GBA is everything new and everything that sucks is the fan service old stuff.
To each his own, but I enjoyed the fan service.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmI actually kinda think the movie would’ve benefited from the family being a random family that moves into a new cheap house and not the “Spengler family”.
I'm gonna disagree here. The story's heart is as strong as it is because the family are the Spenglers. You sever that connection with Egon and you lose a good chunk of the character motivation (Callie making peace with her Dad, Phoebe finding her place in the universe, getting to learn about her grandfather, and realizing science truely is in her blood), as well as good chunk of the heart of the story.

McKenna was superb as Phoebe, and I wouldn't ever trade that for a maybe slightly better story.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmAt least this way we could lose the saccharine “Egon’s spirit crosses over” sequence that I can’t stand.
To each their own again, but as I think I might've said two years ago, I liked the ending.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmA CGI Harold Ramis was not something the movie earned in the least.
They did earn it, by speaking to Violet and the rest of Harold's family, by treating his depiction as sympathetically as possible in light of his passing (whereas they easily could've recast Egon completely, and given him dialogue with a soundalike).

With that said, to answer One time's question:

As would be the case if any of us had received a telephone call to say an old friend of acquaintance had died unexpectedly, Ray naturally was in shock at Phoebe's news.

Even when it's someone we might've lost contact with, or had a falling-out with, that sort of information still catches us off-guard.
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#4986337
Kingpin wrote: October 7th, 2023, 5:01 am This is starting to veer too far away from the original question One time had posed, so I probably will merge this with the existing "Ghostbusters: Afterlife" Feature Talkback Thread, in a little bit.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmI don’t buy Egon turning into someone who writes signs and graffiti about bible passages and prophecies.
I think it's safe to conclude the signs Egon had posted at the edge of the farmhouse property were his attempt at set dressing, deterrents to the people of Summerville to either keep them safe or to prevent them from distracting him from his work... Rather than a sign of Egon's mental state.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmIt’s not coincidence that everything good or great about GBA is everything new and everything that sucks is the fan service old stuff.
To each his own, but I enjoyed the fan service.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmI actually kinda think the movie would’ve benefited from the family being a random family that moves into a new cheap house and not the “Spengler family”.
I'm gonna disagree here. The story's heart is as strong as it is because the family are the Spenglers. You sever that connection with Egon and you lose a good chunk of the character motivation (Callie making peace with her Dad, Phoebe finding her place in the universe, getting to learn about her grandfather, and realizing science truely is in her blood), as well as good chunk of the heart of the story.

McKenna was superb as Phoebe, and I wouldn't ever trade that for a maybe slightly better story.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmAt least this way we could lose the saccharine “Egon’s spirit crosses over” sequence that I can’t stand.
To each their own again, but as I think I might've said two years ago, I liked the ending.
RichardLess wrote: October 6th, 2023, 4:25 pmA CGI Harold Ramis was not something the movie earned in the least.
They did earn it, by speaking to Violet and the rest of Harold's family, by treating his depiction as sympathetically as possible in light of his passing (whereas they easily could've recast Egon completely, and given him dialogue with a soundalike).

With that said, to answer One time's question:

As would be the case if any of us had received a telephone call to say an old friend of acquaintance had died unexpectedly, Ray naturally was in shock at Phoebe's news.

Even when it's someone we might've lost contact with, or had a falling-out with, that sort of information still catches us off-guard.
They didn’t earn it. Asking for permission has nothing to do with that happens in the movie. Having Egon be some neglectful absentee father who has zero to do with his daughters life and then ending with him glowing and hugging and crossing over. It’s gross. From a story perspective it doesn’t work and on a personal level it’s the nadir of this franchise. His family can give all the permission they want. That doesn’t make it right. Recasting him wouldn’t have been a good idea either. If you are going bring Harold Ramis or Egon Spengler back from the dead you best do something special. Giving me something I’ve seen before in other movies? No.

As for Ray in shock. We have to be careful here. What do we mean when we say in shock? Shocked to the point where it affects his mental capacity? Clinically in a mental health sort of way? Trauma? No. There’s nothing there that points to that at all.

Is he surprised and shocked in a surprise, caught off guard way? Yeah. Most definitely. But he’s not in shock in a trauma sort of way. He’s far too cognizant and present in the moment for a reading like that to make sense.

And again. We are giving the movie far too much credit by thinking they even considered the possibility. It seems anything in the original cast wasn’t thought out & was done as quickly as possible. That’s what it seems like.

I will give the movie this one moment. Now I absolutely detest the way the relationship worked between Ray and Egon in the film. I’ve made my feelings known about the CGI Egon. But when Ray says he’s sorry? Shit. You feel it. But that’s Dans acting. It’s wrong on character levels. But damn if it wasn’t a gut punch. I’ve wondered how that moment might work if it was Venkman who didn’t believe Egon and Venkman who said sorry, but that’s neither here nor there.
#4986340
Thanks all. (+ merge with main thread if needed).

Was a strange scene, to see the original GB's again after 30 years of waiting as fans; for Ray to hear Egon died and explain what happened to them. Must've been hard for Aykroyd to perform, there's a sadness to express, then exposition, some humor, some frustration, etc.

On "Ray not believing Egon" issue, I somewhat agree. Both were data driven ("Raymond take a look at this" / "This doesn't look good Ray") then Ray would double check the readings.

It would all make sense if just before Phoebe interrupted him Ray was gonna say that the readings didn't make sense, or something:

"And kid, don't get me wrong, I wanted to believe,... but the readings just didn't add up" or something

On the other hand I can also believe that the change in Egon's behaviour played a large part on Ray. Not everything is data. Ray is a very intuitive and sensing person, the isolation in Egon's behavior must have played a large part, like the Egon's Spengler's Journal touches on so well.
#4986345
This conversation aside there's one other notion to consider: say that even if the Ghostbusters didn't go out of business. Egon does gather all the evidence, convinces Ray, Peter, and Winston that Summerville will be the center of another Gozer incident... they're still a business. No one's paying them to go there and stop it. Sure after GB1, they got stiffed out of a payday and got sued out of business.

GB2 it's more vague if they got paid or not - the early scripts say they do but the actual movie they leave that part out. At the time in the 90s probably even the 00s and most of the 10s, Summerville was likely inactive so there probably wasn't even any ghosts around there to bust. You're telling me a bunch of paranormal investigators from New York was gonna convince the town of Summerville in the Midwest about a supernatural disaster brewing under them to hire them for a thousands of $ or at least convince them to hire someone to bulldoze the mine because their founder was a wacko who wanted to cleanse the planet by summoning an obscure Sumerian god? I think they would have been turned away.

Egon making off with a lot of the tech and Ecto-1 was dubious but effectively giving up his life and spending all his money just to wait alone for decades just for one shot at trapping at least the Terror Dogs with no recognition, no payday, nothing but just to save the world ? That was pretty damn heroic.
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#4986364
mrmichaelt wrote: October 8th, 2023, 12:21 am This conversation aside there's one other notion to consider: say that even if the Ghostbusters didn't go out of business. Egon does gather all the evidence, convinces Ray, Peter, and Winston that Summerville will be the center of another Gozer incident... they're still a business. No one's paying them to go there and stop it. Sure after GB1, they got stiffed out of a payday and got sued out of business.

GB2 it's more vague if they got paid or not - the early scripts say they do but the actual movie they leave that part out.
Sorry to take this out of the bigger Summerville context, but after watching GB2 for the 1000th+ time finally I realized that the GB's must have their bill(s) paid by the city after the Scoleri bust-hence why they could afford all the fancy new stuff including Ecto-1A and get back into business (firehouse renovation) so quickly. It would also explain Hardemeyer's reaction to the TV commercial and the general hostility of the mayor, despite them saving the town all over again. Lenny's wallet was hurt badly.
#4986367
Ecto24601 wrote: October 10th, 2023, 9:53 amI realized that the GB's must have their bill(s) paid by the city after the Scoleri bust-hence why they could afford all the fancy new stuff including Ecto-1A and get back into business (firehouse renovation) so quickly. It would also explain Hardemeyer's reaction to the TV commercial and the general hostility of the mayor, despite them saving the town all over again. Lenny's wallet was hurt badly.
I don't know if Lenny and the city would've done that out of the goodness of their own heart just because the guys busted the Scoleris... I know it's a bit wonky because the scenes for it ended up on the cutting room floor, but to me the debt owed to the guys for the Gozer job was only paid by the city in the aftermath of Vigo's defeat... Potentially infurred by them receiving the key to the city in the end credits.
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#4986957
Re: "why didn't Ray believe Egon", my take is that Egon essentially went mad scientist. There was always a streak of that in his character and while Ray and Egon seem to have a good friendship in the movies, Ray was the glue between Egon and Peter (and subsequently Winston). Without Ray, there wouldn't be the Ghostbusters.

I have to imagine if Spengler demanded the team to relocate to somewhere in the middle of nowhere, there would be some pushback from Peter and Winston (who are more practically minded) and they'd ask him to provide more concrete evidence. Ray would be on the fence between Egon and the rest on the issue -- believing Egon but also somewhat siding with Venkman and Zeddemore. And when Egon steals the team's equipment and disappears, this tears the team apart and Ray would take this personally. Ray seems like a sensitive guy and I think it would eat at him that Egon could have done something cold like that.

So there ya go, my head canon. Maybe that will help your enjoyment of this uneven sequel!
#4988586
WCat2000 wrote:Movie is scheduled to air on FX today. Probably won’t show any new deleted scenes but TV airings typically include deleted footage to extend it besides a bunch of commercials. They included deleted bits for ATC.
Cool, saved it to my DVR and will go through it a couple times. I presume the majority of the edits will be Callie's potty mouth. lol. Yeah, the movie is 124 minutes and the time slot is 130 minutes total. Doubt any deleted scenes will be in it but who knows.
#4988589
Ok, only differences I spotted were:
1. Wertheimer's Hardware Owner saying "bizarre things" instead of "bizarre shit"
2. Trevor remarking "What a piece of junk" instead of "What a shitbox"
3. Trevor screaming "Aah!"instead of "Shit!" when Ecto-1 does the jump
4. Callie saying "Well then he's an idiot" instead of "Well, then he's an asshole"
5. Callie saying "Holy..." instead of "Holy shit" when Egon's ghost manifests
6. Callie saying "You scared the crap out of me" instead of "You scared the shit out of me" when she hugs Phoebe after Gozer is trapped
7. Speeding past the credits after the first end tag+only hear a snippet of Mckenna's song
8. The second end tag is not shown
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#4992494
Artist Kirsten Franson posted concepts, models, bts photos back in November. I think most if not all can be seen in the Making of Book but nonetheless:

Gozer Temple: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/LRVPy0

Ecto-1 and RTV Ramp: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/blxZYm

Gunner Chair concepts and final build photos: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xD4y61

RTV: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/6No2ax

Proton Pack and P.K.E. Meter concepts: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/WBVkwJ
Kingpin, Corey91, Alphagaia liked this
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