#4997798
I’m just curious about what you think are the best and worst changes to the pack over the films AND what in universe explanations are there for each change? Is there any direct evidence for the changes - beyond new movie, new pack - and what are the indirect reasons - again, beyond new movie, new pack?
#4997801
I loved the Afterlife changes that make it look bodged back together, with workarounds. Which is why it's slightly bizarre to still see some of those "bodges" in the new yellow Elsa packs. You'd think those would have been re-engineered to fix those workarounds. The bumpers and chevrons etc are good additions and make it look like it's somehow "approved" rather than "unlicensed", but it still has exposed connectors around the Clippard. weird.
Last edited by Mercifull on May 15th, 2024, 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#4997807
Mercifull wrote: May 15th, 2024, 6:51 am I loved the Afterlife changes that make it look bodged back together, with workarounds. Which is why it's slightly bizarre to still see some of those "bodges" in the new yellow Elsa packs. You'd think those would have been re-engineered to fix those workarounds.
Allegedly, the intention was that the Spengler pack was not only crudely fixed but also upgraded, supposedly the cyclotron was supposed to spin faster in the final fight in afterlife. I don't remember who told me that but it was someone on here.
#4997838
It's not the worst change, but two of the changes that I disliked were that the crank knob went from grey in the first movie, to black in the second, robbing the Pack design of one of the bits of colour that helped bring interest to the design... And the change to the ribbon cable (I appreciate this is because the original stock was not available to the production in 1988), with the spectra strip looking less interesting than what was used in 1983.

The change I love, though it's really a technical change, is the development that the cover on the Cyclotron pops off, allowing us to see some of the Pack's innards.
#4997840
My next pack build is going to be a Spengler 84 replica, but I still haven't made up my mind if I want to incorporate some of the Afterlife mods as it's implied they were there all along, specifically the Ion Arm switch and the removable Cyclotron. It's a tough decision, I really like both changes but I won't be able to claim it's accurate to 1984 :lol:
(Still not sure about the new switch they added under the gearbox though).
#4997842
prodestrian wrote: May 16th, 2024, 5:58 pm My next pack build is going to be a Spengler 84 replica, but I still haven't made up my mind if I want to incorporate some of the Afterlife mods as it's implied they were there all along, specifically the Ion Arm switch and the removable Cyclotron. It's a tough decision, I really like both changes but I won't be able to claim it's accurate to 1984 :lol:
(Still not sure about the new switch they added under the gearbox though).
I'll be taking a similar approach myself for my next Pack: A largely-1984 Pack with 2021 Ion Arm switch (though I'm contemplating having two Ion Arms, one 1984-style, one 2021-style, which I can swap in and out if I change my mind on which one is installed), and an electronics setup that replicates the spinning light effect of the 2021-2024 Cyclotrons (though not a single bulb spun by a motorised system).
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#4997861
I would say the FE packs. Ray talks about the changes made while he looks one over as they suit up but I may have missed it but they don't do anything different and look less appealing imo. Plus still lots of hardware store style mods when the obviously have access to a large selection of tech as shown by the PRC site.
#4997864
prodestrian wrote: May 16th, 2024, 5:58 pm My next pack build is going to be a Spengler 84 replica, but I still haven't made up my mind if I want to incorporate some of the Afterlife mods as it's implied they were there all along, specifically the Ion Arm switch and the removable Cyclotron. It's a tough decision, I really like both changes but I won't be able to claim it's accurate to 1984 :lol:
(Still not sure about the new switch they added under the gearbox though).
I say add 'em! The power switch just makes sense and the removable cyclotron pan isn't necessarily super apparent until you remove it.
#4997865
RealGhostbusterJay wrote: May 17th, 2024, 6:03 am I would say the FE packs. Ray talks about the changes made while he looks one over as they suit up but I may have missed it but they don't do anything different and look less appealing imo. Plus still lots of hardware store style mods when the obviously have access to a large selection of tech as shown by the PRC site.
And another thing, they changed the lights back to the snapping 4 bulbs. I don't think I like that. The spinning bulb makes MUCH more sense in-universe. My take on how the cyclotron seems to operate is the inner core/cake spinning really fast (disregarding the pointless wiring harness connecting to the cyclotron in Afterlife, ruins it), having a positive charge while the outer bits (presumably heatsinks) are charged negatively, the difference in polarity makes the particles stay between them (the sparks seen on the Phoebe pyro pack), due to the spinning nature of the cake, the particles go around the cyclotron faster and faster, pulled out by the first electromagnet inside the wand (potentially also electromagnets in the cyclotron bay, near the connector?), pulled through the hose, into the wand. The OG lighting made sense in '84/'89, not now.

But then again, those CRT emitter mounts... Could make the red lights illuminate as indicators. Dunno. I like spinny lights.
#4997868
The_Y33TER wrote: May 17th, 2024, 8:20 am
RealGhostbusterJay wrote: May 17th, 2024, 6:03 am I would say the FE packs. Ray talks about the changes made while he looks one over as they suit up but I may have missed it but they don't do anything different and look less appealing imo. Plus still lots of hardware store style mods when the obviously have access to a large selection of tech as shown by the PRC site.
And another thing, they changed the lights back to the snapping 4 bulbs. I don't think I like that. The spinning bulb makes MUCH more sense in-universe. My take on how the cyclotron seems to operate is the inner core/cake spinning really fast (disregarding the pointless wiring harness connecting to the cyclotron in Afterlife, ruins it), having a positive charge while the outer bits (presumably heatsinks) are charged negatively, the difference in polarity makes the particles stay between them (the sparks seen on the Phoebe pyro pack), due to the spinning nature of the cake, the particles go around the cyclotron faster and faster, pulled out by the first electromagnet inside the wand (potentially also electromagnets in the cyclotron bay, near the connector?), pulled through the hose, into the wand. The OG lighting made sense in '84/'89, not now.

But then again, those CRT emitter mounts... Could make the red lights illuminate as indicators. Dunno. I like spinny lights.
I appreciate that spinny lights look cool. But it makes absolutely no sense. Cyclotrons don’t physically spin.

I really like the Afterlife pack as a one-off cobbled together over time set of upgrades. I agree it makes no sense for some of those changes to be present in their clearly unfinished form on the Frozen Empire packs.
#4997869
BrianReilly wrote: May 17th, 2024, 9:41 am I appreciate that spinny lights look cool. But it makes absolutely no sense. Cyclotrons don’t physically spin.

I really like the Afterlife pack as a one-off cobbled together over time set of upgrades. I agree it makes no sense for some of those changes to be present in their clearly unfinished form on the Frozen Empire packs.
I dunno, the spinning lights seemed to be intended to retcon the motion of the lights.
The red lights could be reactive to the particles moving around the cyclotron, not the motion of the cyclotron itself? I personally think the design of the cyclotron bay is a little... simple. Might be crazy, but it feels like it's missing something.
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#4997870
The_Y33TER wrote: May 17th, 2024, 8:20 am And another thing, they changed the lights back to the snapping 4 bulbs.
There may be a couple of props that went back to the 1983-1988 method for the cyclotron lighting, but the majority of scenes featuring the revamped Packs have the same spinning light effect as the Afterlife Packs had - it's visible on Trevor's Pack when he switches on Lucky's, on Lucky's a moment after that, on the one Ray's looking at when Winston arrives at the Firehouse, on Winston's Pack when Venkman arrives at the Firehouse, to name a few.
#4997871
Kingpin wrote: May 16th, 2024, 5:47 pm It's not the worst change, but two of the changes that I disliked were that the crank knob went from grey in the first movie, to black in the second, robbing the Pack design of one of the bits of colour that helped bring interest to the design... And the change to the ribbon cable (I appreciate this is because the original stock was not available to the production in 1988), with the spectra strip looking less interesting than what was used in 1983.

The change I love, though it's really a technical change, is the development that the cover on the Cyclotron pops off, allowing us to see some of the Pack's innards.
Interesting, I'm the opposite when it comes to the ribbon cable. I always thought the twisted Spectra-Strip looked cooler than the GB1 stuff, though I'd love to know who made the the cable on the first film's Packs. Completely agree on the crank knob change. The grey provided a great contrast to the mostly black Pack.

I think my least favorite change is the new HASP Pack front grip. Looks like it'd be a lot more unwieldy than the previous grips.
#4997872
The_Y33TER wrote: May 17th, 2024, 11:35 am
BrianReilly wrote: May 17th, 2024, 9:41 am I appreciate that spinny lights look cool. But it makes absolutely no sense. Cyclotrons don’t physically spin.

I really like the Afterlife pack as a one-off cobbled together over time set of upgrades. I agree it makes no sense for some of those changes to be present in their clearly unfinished form on the Frozen Empire packs.
I dunno, the spinning lights seemed to be intended to retcon the motion of the lights.
The red lights could be reactive to the particles moving around the cyclotron, not the motion of the cyclotron itself? I personally think the design of the cyclotron bay is a little... simple. Might be crazy, but it feels like it's missing something.
I had a similar theory that the new light motion is based on the movement of the particles inside the cyclotron, which sends a charge to the CRT emitters. Then again, I'm no particle physicist or engineer, so I might be talking complete nonsense.
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#4997909
pda4ever wrote: May 19th, 2024, 8:41 pm Interesting. I haven’t had the pleasure of handling one of the new grips yet but they do look like they might not be super comfortable.
I wasn't initially a fan of the look, but I added one to my HasLab pack, and it's surprisingly comfortable, especially compared to the Afterlife shotgun grip.
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#4997912
Kingpin wrote: May 17th, 2024, 12:44 pm There may be a couple of props that went back to the 1983-1988 method for the cyclotron lighting, but the majority of scenes featuring the revamped Packs have the same spinning light effect as the Afterlife Packs had - it's visible on Trevor's Pack when he switches on Lucky's, on Lucky's a moment after that, on the one Ray's looking at when Winston arrives at the Firehouse, on Winston's Pack when Venkman arrives at the Firehouse, to name a few.
On the HASPs, they have spinny lights? If so, rad. I've only seen the movie once, since tickets should NOT cost 30-40 bucks each... Figured they were snapping because of the repeated usage of the BTS shot of the four light pods.
#4997914
LeoCor Replicas wrote: May 17th, 2024, 1:50 pm I always thought the twisted Spectra-Strip looked cooler than the GB1 stuff, though I'd love to know who made the the cable on the first film's Packs.
Interesting. I'm GB1 strip all the way, I think the brown common around all the colorful wires just makes it look... eh. Less colorful perhaps? Dunno how to phrase it better.
#4997915
LeoCor Replicas wrote: May 17th, 2024, 1:57 pm
The_Y33TER wrote: May 17th, 2024, 11:35 am

I dunno, the spinning lights seemed to be intended to retcon the motion of the lights.
The red lights could be reactive to the particles moving around the cyclotron, not the motion of the cyclotron itself? I personally think the design of the cyclotron bay is a little... simple. Might be crazy, but it feels like it's missing something.
I had a similar theory that the new light motion is based on the movement of the particles inside the cyclotron, which sends a charge to the CRT emitters. Then again, I'm no particle physicist or engineer, so I might be talking complete nonsense.
My thoughts exactly. A safety feature to let the user and other members of the team know their cyclotron is producing particles properly. Passing particles make a filament light up? The fact they're emitters is confusing, though. Dunno. Emit light, maybe, lmfao. I like the idea that the particles make the CRT racks illuminate though.
#4997924
Mercifull wrote: May 15th, 2024, 6:51 am I loved the Afterlife changes that make it look bodged back together, with workarounds. Which is why it's slightly bizarre to still see some of those "bodges" in the new yellow Elsa packs. You'd think those would have been re-engineered to fix those workarounds. The bumpers and chevrons etc are good additions and make it look like it's somehow "approved" rather than "unlicensed", but it still has exposed connectors around the Clippard. weird.
This. The crew who put together the Afterlife props did an excellent job in reproducing the original proton pack props with parts that are currently available, e.g. SMC elbows in place of Legris, etc. The Spengler pack's hodgepodge, hardware parts store repairs make sense given where Egon was located and what he had access to. The shotgun grip at the front of the neutrona wand made sense for this reason; the mere presence of it suggested the finger grooved foregrip had broken at some point. The OG packs were more or less the same as the GB2 packs we last saw on screen in 1989.

Fast forward to Frozen Empire's HASP packs. The design is.... odd. What were clearly meant to be makeshift repairs on the Spengler pack in Afterlife are now present on every brand new pack produced with Zeddemore's funds. But.... why? In universe, surely the Engineering division at the PRC would have come up with a solution to the exposed grounding wires, the electrical tape wrapped around connections on the pneumatic fittings, the frankensteined gas mask hose/rubber hose/wire loom connection from the pack to the thrower, etc.

The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is it was a choice by the real world FE prop team to just carry over those items from the Afterlife Spengler pack on all the new packs, despite it not really making any sense. The biggest one, for me, is the modified AK47 foregrip replacing the shotgun grip from the Afterlife Spengler pack but retaining the finger groove grip on the rear handle. Like, why? I could see the designer rationalizing it by saying, "Oh, well it's replacing that old, farmhouse shotgun grip with a new, super cool AK47 grip" but in reality, the finger groove grip is what it should have been.

For every change that was made that was not bad/decent (ion arm, bumper, barrel cage on wand), or retained from Afterlife that everybody likes (Ion Arm switch, removable cyclotron pan) since they were implied to be there all along.... there is stuff that was carried over that should have been refined or removed completely.

I have a feeling that the prop team in the UK just didn't really care about any of this stuff beyond the job at hand, and the Spengler pack was used as a reference to build from. My .02 cents.

Oh, and the way most of the packs in FE have the ribbon cable twisted sloppily...... irks me. Just .02 more cents there.
#4997925
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 1:06 pm surely the Engineering division at the PRC would have come up with a solution to the exposed grounding wires
Clippard wiring was tan/black on the Afterlife packs, orange on the new packs. That's not a fix, it's either an upgrade or ease of repair thing.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 1:06 pm the electrical tape wrapped around connections on the pneumatic fittings,
Specifically, what?
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 1:06 pm For every change that was made that was not bad/decent (ion arm, bumper, barrel cage on wand)
It seems like you trailed off about this, instead talking about the retcon changes.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 1:06 pm I have a feeling that the prop team in the UK just didn't really care about any of this stuff beyond the job at hand, and the Spengler pack was used as a reference to build from. My .02 cents.
Guaranteed. The Afterlife props built by Eadie had soul, they were built with intention. Frozen Empire's props... not so much. it felt like we saw them for a few seconds throughout the movie and they just seemed... off. Eugh. Bring back Ben.
#4997926
In terms of the worst changes:
The FE H.A.S.P in general, from the cyclothong to the caution stripes, the right angled ion arm, cable junction and plastic elbow replacing the beamline, the blue tubing filled with blue paint, the horrible front grip and cheese slice heatsink spacer and cut down/sanatised guntrack on the thrower, not to mention carrying over parts from the phoebe pack which were supposed to be running repairs in order to keep it operational.
These packs felt very much like change for its own sake rather than an evolution of the prop.

In afterlife, the heavy handed silver weathering on the shell and pretty much everywhere else, flimsy aftermarket Alice frames, the spinning cyclotron lights, the awful V-Hook and particularly the red switch underneath the ion arm (and the mistakenly added one under the gearbox).
Much of this seemed like a retcon of the original packs design details.

I'm also not a fan of how the packs shell texture was handled for either of the new movies.

As for best changes, It's the subtle ones.
Like the strain relief cable added to the loom for GB2, the more comfortable LC-2 kidney pad/belt and shoulder pads.
The bolt through the bumper into the cycloton for better stability.

I'm struggling to think of anything on the newer packs that I'd consider to be better.
apart from maybe the reduction of the amount of electronics needed and the weight reduction.
And switching back to genuine LC-2 alice frames for the hasp packs.
#4997929
The ground wires bolted to the Clippard disc on the synchronous generator were likely intended to be a running repair to a malfunction within the pack's internal components. The other OG packs in Afterlife didn't have these grounding wires, because in-universe they weren't malfunctioning like the Spengler pack. Newly manufactured, "upgraded" HASP packs in FE shouldn't have these grounding wires, because they shouldn't be malfunctioning from the get-go.

The Afterlife Spengler pack has blue electrical tape wrapped around the split loom tubing where it connects to the hex fittings on either end, there is red electrical tape wrapped around the connection point where the red tubing is connected to the SMC elbow on the HGA, the tubing running from the legris straight fitting to the SMC elbow on the cyclotron has red electrical tape wrapped around it and a hose clamp near the portion terminating at the SMC elbow...these things scream "REPAIR" not "upgrade"

The FE proton pack props were technically fine, and I'm sure were well built by talented people. They just don't seem to be thought out very well. It makes me wonder whether anybody on the team spoke up and said, "Hey guys, this tape and all these wires look like parts of a repair job on an old piece of equipment. Should we really duplicate this on packs that are supposed to be brand new?"

The whole thing just seems like a missed opportunity, in my opinion. If they were mandated to make changes to sell toys, etc.... I would have done this instead:

Classic wand, no changes other than yellow plate at the heat sink .
Solid split loom from wand to pack, with neutrik connector at the wand and a heavy duty looking connector on the pack end.
Restore beam line.
Ditch ground wires and all electrical tape.
Keep ion arm switch, strain relief connectors, new terminal block for ribbon cable connection.
Classic powercell fins, keep yellow accents.
Keep yellow tri-bumper, move label to classic position. Keep low-profile shockmount.
Keep new angled ion arm.
Keep heat sink on synchronous generator, possibly change to a beefier looking one.
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#4997930
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm In terms of the worst changes:
The FE H.A.S.P in general, from the cyclothong to the caution stripes, the right angled ion arm, cable junction and plastic elbow replacing the beamline, the blue tubing filled with blue paint, the horrible front grip and cheese slice heatsink spacer and cut down/sanatised guntrack on the thrower, not to mention carrying over parts from the phoebe pack which were supposed to be running repairs in order to keep it operational.
These changes weren't that bad.
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm the blue tubing filled with blue paint
What.
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm not to mention carrying over parts from the phoebe pack which were supposed to be running repairs in order to keep it operational
Okay. Let's do this again. The lights on the Phoebe pack were supposed to be much faster than the other packs in Afterlife. The clippard wiring, for the five thousandth time, is NOT A REPAIR. It's an upgrade. Why does nobody get this...?
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm In afterlife, the heavy handed silver weathering on the shell and pretty much everywhere else
Yeah... it's supposed to be ~40 years old. It's gonna be banged up, black paint chipped off over time.
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm flimsy aftermarket Alice frames, the awful V-Hook
These are things most viewers won't notice or care about. The brand of alice frame doesn't really matter that much, and as long as the V hook works, it works.
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm the spinning cyclotron lights
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm the red switch underneath the ion arm
The lights and switch are cool... imo the old lighting system is... very dated. Spin is better, the switch was literally flipped by Egon in '84, retcon switch is good, lights could be explained by an upgrade pre-'21. Not necessarily a retcon, but even if it is, it's a warranted one.
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm I'm also not a fan of how the packs shell texture was handled for either of the new movies.
That's fair.
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm Like the strain relief cable added to the loom for GB2
What. What are you talking about?
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm the more comfortable LC-2 kidney pad/belt and shoulder pads.
Again, fair.
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm The bolt through the bumper into the cycloton for better stability.
Dude, what the hell are you talking about?
RedSpecial wrote: May 20th, 2024, 3:35 pm I'm struggling to think of anything on the newer packs that I'd consider to be better.
apart from maybe the reduction of the amount of electronics needed and the weight reduction.
And switching back to genuine LC-2 alice frames for the hasp packs.
womp womp

Changes are changes.
#4997931
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm The ground wires bolted to the Clippard disc on the synchronous generator were likely intended to be a running repair to a malfunction within the pack's internal components. The other OG packs in Afterlife didn't have these grounding wires, because in-universe they weren't malfunctioning like the Spengler pack. Newly manufactured, "upgraded" HASP packs in FE shouldn't have these grounding wires, because they shouldn't be malfunctioning from the get-go.
If it was an internal malfunction, why wasn't the fix done internally, if all it took was some wiring? It's an upgrade. The Phoebe pack was designed to be not only more badass and battle worn, but upgraded and more powerful.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm The Afterlife Spengler pack has blue electrical tape wrapped around the split loom tubing where it connects to the hex fittings on either end, there is red electrical tape wrapped around the connection point where the red tubing is connected to the SMC elbow on the HGA, the tubing running from the legris straight fitting to the SMC elbow on the cyclotron has red electrical tape wrapped around it and a hose clamp near the portion terminating at the SMC elbow...these things scream "REPAIR" not "upgrade"
These are fair, but then again, preventative maintenance, other than the hose clamps. But who knows, maybe Egon added something in the middle of the tube there that boosts performance. Then again, FE prop design was very lacking.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm The FE proton pack props were technically fine, and I'm sure were well built by talented people. They just don't seem to be thought out very well. It makes me wonder whether anybody on the team spoke up and said, "Hey guys, this tape and all these wires look like parts of a repair job on an old piece of equipment. Should we really duplicate this on packs that are supposed to be brand new?"
This. Mostly.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm Classic wand, no changes other than yellow plate at the heat sink .
I say keep the heat shield. It protects the user. It's called the Health and Safety Pack, after all. Also, shouldn't it be H.a.S.P, not H.A.S.P?
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm Solid split loom from wand to pack, with neutrik connector at the wand and a heavy duty looking connector on the pack end.
Splitless is MUCH better.
Keep gas mask, remove rubber hose.
If it's just a Neutrik Powercon on the wand end, why does it have to be heavy duty on the pack end? I don't see why they either:
1. Couldn't be left the way they are
2. Could BOTH be beefed up.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm Restore beam line.
Agreed, except the terminal block covers the old Hydrogen tube.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm Ditch ground wires and all electrical tape.
Absolutely to the hell not. Reasons stated above.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm Keep ion arm switch, strain relief connectors, new terminal block for ribbon cable connection.
Beamline tube and terminal block don't mix well.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm Classic powercell fins, keep yellow accents.
Agreed. Caution striping on the powercell box looks very toyish.
Mike3042 wrote: May 20th, 2024, 4:40 pm Keep yellow tri-bumper, move label to classic position. Keep low-profile shockmount.
Keep new angled ion arm.
Keep heat sink on synchronous generator, possibly change to a beefier looking one.
Agreed to these three. 100% entirely, nothing objected by me at all. Maybe add a small decal on the third prong for the cyclothong, but that's unnecessary.
#4997933
The grounding/terminal wires are not an upgrade. I'll die on this hill lol the repairs were likely not done internally because Egon lived on a farmhouse with limited resources to do repairs correctly and an Ace Hardware nearby to buy supplies. He also somehow managed to cobble together four sentry packs with what he had at his disposal.

If every change on the Phoebe pack was an upgrade and carried over to the new HASP packs.... then where is the brass fitting and black hose for the side port on the EDA? Or the spiral wire wrap and yellow sleeve from the cyclotron port?
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