[Kingpin]

I’d be fascinated to see if these ranks remain the same within the following year

I can't speak for anyone else's, but don't anticipate my ranking changing (Ghostbusters II is fun, but as has been noted by others over the past decades, too many of the story beats are too similar to Ghostbusters, and it starts off with them out of business. While Afterlife does borrow a lot from the first movie, it's different enough to not feel like as much of a retread plotwise as Ghostbusters II. Frozen Empire is substantially different enough in it's set up to elevate it above Ghostbusters II for me, even taking into consideration it's flaws.

I feel like it only partially succeeded

I know we've discussed this before and disagreed, but I feel the film delivered everything the trailers had promised in regards to New York getting frozen and Garraka's army.

[Nate Dawg]

I’d be fascinated to see if these ranks remain the same within the following year

I can't speak for anyone else's, but don't anticipate my ranking changing (Ghostbusters II is fun, but as has been noted by others over the past decades, too many of the story beats are too similar to Ghostbusters, and it starts off with them out of business. While Afterlife does borrow a lot from the first movie, it's different enough to not feel like as much of a retread plotwise as Ghostbusters II. Frozen Empire is substantially different enough in it's set up to elevate it above Ghostbusters II for me, even taking into consideration it's flaws.

I feel like it only partially succeeded

I know we've discussed this before and disagreed, but I feel the film delivered everything the trailers had promised in regards to New York getting frozen and Garraka's army.

What about if we go by which movies just make you laugh the most? Would your rankings change like mine or stay the same?

If they ever make a sequel they really need to keep Kumail Nanjiani. He added so much. His facial expressions are so good.

When Ray asks if it’s okay if he uses the PKE meter on the orb. His response is perfect. Plus his scene with Murray? So good.

[WCat2000]

I think GB2 is funnier than the first. GB2 and FE are pretty equal in humor to me but that’s not a factor in whether it’s a better movie. My rank is the same as Kingpin.

[timeware]

I can easily see Kumail heading his own team without the Spangler's getting involved.

[Nate Dawg]

I think GB2 is funnier than the first. GB2 and FE are pretty equal in humor to me but that’s not a factor in whether it’s a better movie. My rank is the same as Kingpin.

Yeah no comedy is just one aspect of many. I’ve seen funny movies that I dislike.

I’ve seen quite a few fans over the years who have that same opinion as you about the 2nd film being funnier than the first. Peter MacNicol certainly adds a huge comedic element. Janos kills me. “Everything you are doing is bad. I want you to know this”.

The second films comedy is definitely a more confident tone than the first film. They know these characters and this world. Even Ivan Reitman’s direction feels more sure footed. Or more comedic in tone.

I have this whole thing I’ve talked about with movie geek friends of mine that I don’t feel like the original Ghostbusters is filmed like a traditional comedy where as the 2nd most definitely is. Reitman plays things really wide in the first Ghostbusters. Which is rare for dialogue based comedy. In the 2nd film we get reaction shots and some mugging. The first film is played in a lot of master shots.

[Davideverona]

I think a big error they made with Frozen Empire was setting it in New York but not using New York as a character like the first two.

In the original movies the city was present and vibrant, with people doing their business while the Gbs were strolling around the University, checking the library, digging a hole.... And then, when disaster stroked, all the city was involved, hundreds of people were scared and running and yelling and being slightly relieved at the GBs arrival.

Neither Afterlife or Frozen Empire did that. They were too self contained movies, Garraka Empire wasn't shown or used (only a glimpse of frozen buildings), and only a bunch of people were greeting the Ghostbusters outside the firehouse.

We need more epicness. We need a whole city in danger, with the threat building up from the beginning (like GB2 did) and then gaping the whole city with a grand finale in Times Square.

Now, Aykroyd has recently talked about Sony wanting to do more movies, let's hope for improvement.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

We need more epicness. We need a whole city in danger, with the threat building up from the beginning (like GB2 did) and then gaping the whole city with a grand finale in Times Square.

This is extremely unlikely given the budgetary constraints of these movies.

[mrmichaelt]

The more I watch it, the more I wish they had the scenes of 1 or both of the busts Callie, Gary, and Trevor went on. Nothing too big, an in media res like you'd see in an RGB episode - towards the tail end, some comedy bits, they zap and trap. Put that scene in place of Garraka communicating with Melody on the street. Yeah, I would of preferred that.

[BatDan]

We need more epicness. We need a whole city in danger, with the threat building up from the beginning (like GB2 did) and then gaping the whole city with a grand finale in Times Square.

This is extremely unlikely given the budgetary constraints of these movies.

It doesnt really take a budget to show stakes. See: Any Slasher movie.

FE had that whole beach sequence to show the city was in danger, it was epic in the trailers but for some reason feels flat in the final film.

GB at its core is the story of “unlikely heroes”
The new films are lacking in the “hero” angle and thats what made the first two so cool.

GB2’s final showdown was heroic which made it feel bigger in scale. Dana and Oscar being the damsels gave us something to route for in the Ghostbusters.

Imagine watching GB2 with just the Ghostbusters going to the museum and theres no Oscar or Dana. They just go to shoot Vigo, boom done. Thats why FE felt a tad “off” to me and why it seemed “rushed/anti climatic” to some reviewers.

We also didnt have a “somebody get me the Ghostbusters” type moment. Man..that part gives me chills just typing about it.

And yes..FE kept wanting to leave “us” behind from the action. All we needed was a quick 30 second “trapping” scene to help break things up.

[mrmichaelt]

FE had that whole beach sequence to show the city was in danger, it was epic in the trailers but for some reason feels flat in the final film.

I remember thinking "wait, no one got frozen in that scene?" I think showing few of those people fleeing get frozen while others ran off like we saw, that'd have upped the scene for me. And hmm, idk, maybe the way the ice spikes erupt from the ground more violent looking and sounding.

GB at its core is the story of “unlikely heroes”
The new films are lacking in the “hero” angle and thats what made the first two so cool.

Yeah, you felt it more in Afterlife where the unlikely/underdog heroes were a bunch of kids. FE was more the unlikely hero was going through growing pains.

GB2’s final showdown was heroic which made it feel bigger in scale. Dana and Oscar being the damsels gave us something to route for in the Ghostbusters.

Well, the damsels were basically almost both teams getting frozen but yeah, they rush through it for the finale of the battle.

And yes..FE kept wanting to leave “us” behind from the action. All we needed was a quick 30 second “trapping” scene to help break things up.

It was interesting the trapping was at the beginning and end of the movie in new ways - the Drone Trap and rigging the ECU. And the 'middle of the movie' busts were Trevor trying to catch Slimer and impromptu Phoebe vs. Possessor outside the library but both were unsuccessful. Based on what we saw in Afterlife, if they had a Trap stored in Ecto-C - they could have sucked it out of Patience. Ah, but then I guess none of the action/hilarity involving it in the siege. But yeah, like I said before, the movie could have used a traditional zap and trap. It didn't have to be as long as the Slimer or Scoleri Brothers busts but something along those lines. Like use Phosphor for a quick bust.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

FE had that whole beach sequence to show the city was in danger, it was epic in the trailers but for some reason feels flat in the final film.

I remember thinking "wait, no one got frozen in that scene?" I think showing few of those people fleeing get frozen while others ran off like we saw, that'd have upped the scene for me .

Maybe a short sequence early on showing the family in plain clothes visiting Coney Island at a vendor or something, or maybe just Phoebe and Podcast with Dan, would have connected the location as a future callback and made it resonate more.

Also agree we needed a short sequence or montage of the family busting without Phoebe.

And lose the Garakka / Melody street conversation.

But I don’t think any of these changes would’ve moved the dial with how the movie was received.

[timeware]

The movie really could have used an extra hour. I felt it was too short and fast paced. The research center was underutilized and a missed opportunity to set up the next movie. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen more busts and Pukie sliming Walter Peck.

Peck could have been doing paper work after the ghosts escaped. His coffee mug moves on it's own, he looks down to see Pukie. Blinks. Says something like WTF and that's when Pukie decorates his office in green technicolor. After the Ghostbusters trap Garaka Peck could have been covered in slime as he confronts the GB's giving him a bigger reason to be pissed off.

Trevor and Lucky going out on a date could have turned into a job with Trevor calling Ray as he's going through the spirit guide over the phone. Ray could have used more screen time.

I felt Nadeem could have been given more screen time with Bill. Even going as far as having Nadeem shadow Bill on some jobs. That's when they discover he can manipulate proton streams.

I know I harp on the advertising, but it really was lacking and played with how the movie was received. They needed to do a Deadpool and Wolverine campaign. Hell, walking in the grocery store an "R" rated movie had floor advertisements next to the ketchup and Mustard. It's those little things help get the word out.

I enjoyed the film both times I've seen them, but I felt it could have used a bit more polish.

[mrmichaelt]

Tops the Nielsen streaming charts.
https://www.thewrap.com/ghostbusters-fr ... x-ratings/

[Chicken, He Clucked]

I’m guessing this is why a sequel is all but certain despite the box office.

[WCat2000]

Estimating...whats it equal in views of the movie in general, start to finish? There’s no view count on Netflix. Thought there was something like...”watched x times in last month”. I feel like I’ve seen some streamer do that. Why is it counted in minutes?

It is interesting that a whole chunk of the audience just didn’t want to see it in theaters. It’d be nice to know what it would be in ticket sales.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

Estimating...whats it equal in views of the movie in general, start to finish? There’s no view count on Netflix. Thought there was something like...”watched x times in last month”. I feel like I’ve seen some streamer do that. Why is it counted in minutes?

It is interesting that a whole chunk of the audience just didn’t want to see it in theaters. It’d be nice to know what it would be in ticket sales.

Quick math, watched roughly 12,217,391 times.

So like does that equate to another $100-120mill in ticket sales? Who knows how they calculate these things.

Hasn’t dropped on Netflix yet in some major territories.

[deadderek]

I’m guessing this is why a sequel is all but certain despite the box office.

Doubtful.

[Nate Dawg]

Estimating...whats it equal in views of the movie in general, start to finish? There’s no view count on Netflix. Thought there was something like...”watched x times in last month”. I feel like I’ve seen some streamer do that. Why is it counted in minutes?

It is interesting that a whole chunk of the audience just didn’t want to see it in theaters. It’d be nice to know what it would be in ticket sales.

Quick math, watched roughly 12,217,391 times.

So like does that equate to another $100-120mill in ticket sales? Who knows how they calculate these things.

Hasn’t dropped on Netflix yet in some major territories.

Does anyone else see this as a bit of a problem? Maybe? Not in that people are watching Ghostbusters. That’s never a bad thing

And the problem is: Ghostbusters is popular. People want to watch it. I think these numbers proved that

So why aren’t they going to the movie theater?

Where’s the disconnect? Yes it’s easier to click on something but it’s not like people aren’t showing up to movies like Twisters? Or Top Gun 2 or Bad Boys 4? And it’s not movie stars. Right? If that were true every Will Smith movie would be huge. After Earth? Tom Cruise made American Made but nobody cared, and it was good too! Twisters had no stars. Ghostbusters had Paul Rudd. Oh and GHOSTBUSTERS.

Twisters grossed more than Ghostbusters sequel? What? Why? I look at those streaming numbers and we all know the original movie was huge. The cartoon was huge. That was 40ish years ago. But it’s not like Ghostbusters is so,e forgotten blip

So. What’s the problem? Advertising? When did this turn into a “I’ll watch it at home” franchise? Is it perception? The left over social wounds from the 2016 ugliness?

Someone here knows a lot about box office & advertising I use see to them arguing about it with that former Rickless user. What does he think about this and what it means? Tom something? Sorry. Tom or droid? One of those. He seemed really knowledgeable about this stuff

EDIT: Tyler!! Tyler is the name I was trying to think of. I had to look in old posts. Apologies for the mix up

If Beetlejuice 2 comes back and does huge numbers I think we may have to conclude maybe it’s 2016 movie and the whole stupid response to that? Or the 2nd movie? Maybe Ghostbusters 2 is the reason. I don’t know. Maybe both? Was GB2 really received that badly? I know Siskel & Ebert hated it.

I feel like I’m not alone in feeling like these movies should be doing better and the streaming numbers reenforces that. I wish I knew what the problem is.

Is Ghostbusters maybe a “been there, done that” feeling with most people?

[BatDan]

If Beetlejuice 2 does amazing, it be unfair to compare its success of the last two GBs. Its been a long rumored/long await sequel we waited 30+ years for.

Anyway. Ive made this theory before but here goes:

2016 wasted that momentum by using that hype for a mid reboot.

So by the time Afterlife came out. Covid buried it first off.. and then most general movie goer people had no idea it was technically “the REAL gb3” .. I’d try to hype to them and theyd be like “oh is that like a sequel to the girls one? Ill pass”

Fast forward to the time FE came out—it felt like one too many to general audiences. Already on our 3rd GB film in less than 7 years.

Regardless of how you feel about the reboot as a movie (love it or hate it). We wasted our 30 year wait “spl**ge” on it.

If we just went with Afterlife from the get-go. I predict that we would have had a much better chance at a big GB revival (There’d also be practically ZERO politics involved to divide its audience either..even though afterlife has its natural detractors)

It comes down to poor business and marketing decisions from Sony honestly.

[Nate Dawg]

If Beetlejuice 2 does amazing, it be unfair to compare its success of the last two GBs. Its been a long rumored/long await sequel we waited 30+ years for.

Anyway. Ive made this theory before but here goes:

2016 wasted that momentum by using that hype for a mid reboot.

So by the time Afterlife came out. Covid buried it first off.. and then most general movie goer people had no idea it was technically “the REAL gb3” .. I’d try to hype to them and theyd be like “oh is that like a sequel to the girls one? Ill pass”

Fast forward to the time FE came out—it felt like one too many to general audiences. Already on our 3rd GB film in less than 7 years.

Regardless of how you feel about the reboot as a movie (love it or hate it). We wasted our 30 year wait “spl**ge” on it.

If we just went with Afterlife from the get-go. I predict that we would have had a much better chance at a big GB revival (There’d also be practically ZERO politics involved to divide its audience either..even though afterlife has its natural detractors)

It comes down to poor business and marketing decisions from Sony honestly.

You are probably right. It’s a little like what happened when Sony rebooted the Spider-Man movies. Sure the 3rd one wasn’t great(though I enjoy it and find it hilarious) but people still loved the actors and first two movies. Look what happened when Tobey showed up in the MCU Spider-Man. Though obviously Ghostbusters and Spider-Man aren’t comparable. Just as an example of how a reboot can mess with the karma of a franchise. Or momentum.

Do we think if the reboot was the 3rd Ghostbusters movie in the canon it would’ve been less controversial? I’m not so sure. I think a lot of sexists hid behind the word “canon”. Maybe let’s not open that can of worms mind you.

It just shocks me. I’m not saying Ghostbusters should be a billion dollar behemoth. But that they can barely get passed 200 million worldwide? In 2024?

Frozen Empire was really fun. Was it perfect? No. But It’s numbers don’t make sense to me. Maybe I’m blinded by my fandom. A form of confirmation bias

Is there another so called “legacy” franchise that has a bondafide classic, a pop culture phenomenon in theatres and TV, yet gets knocked down everytime they release a sequel? It’s weird, right? I can’t think of another example. I know Afterlife was looked at as a success because it made money but I still think it underperformed relative to how audiences seemed to love it.

Maybe the Alien franchise? Though that’s R rated and never reached the pop culture heights of Ghostbusters.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

Ghostbusters FE is a damn sight better than Godzilla v Kong and a load of other movies that did better critically and at the box office.

Doubtful.

The Michigan Ghostbusters have made their feelings about Frozen Empire very well known.

[joezlo]

If you're not a GB fan, you don't watch anything new after 2016.

Covid swallowed up Afterlife.

When I talk about Frozen Empire, the average person asks if Holtzman and crew are in it, and are completely unawares of Afterlife.

Then it just becomes confusion.

Like Ivan said about the IDW comics - he loved that they brought everyone together and it works because anyone can be a Ghostbuster. Don't get stuck on Mt.Bustmore with the OG 4.

[Dr.D]

The more I watch it, the more I wish they had the scenes of 1 or both of the busts Callie, Gary, and Trevor went on. Nothing too big, an in media res like you'd see in an RGB episode - towards the tail end, some comedy bits, they zap and trap. Put that scene in place of Garraka communicating with Melody on the street. Yeah, I would of preferred that.

Seconded big time on this. On my last rewatch (which was my first viewing since theaters) I really felt the movie needed this too. For lack of better phrasing, it was these points specifically where I could see alot of the genuine criticism towards the narrative. While I didn't mind the Phoebe/Melody story it just felt a underdeveloped a little. And upon rewatching the movie I felt like it was a little disappointing the movie twice decides to entirely jettison the ghostbusting aspect of the story for the b-plot they only sorta develop for the sake of the betrayal plot point. It could've been cool and given a little more for Gary and Callie too. Would've loved a classic haunted location bit. I still use the courtroom scene in GB2 as the metric for a good capturing sequence.

I know these movies are always about more than shooting ghosts with lasers, but like...when it feels as if those aspects are being intentionally sidelined its kinda a bummer.

[Nate Dawg]

Ghostbusters FE is a damn sight better than Godzilla v Kong and a load of other movies that did better critically and at the box office.

So true. I truly don’t understand the critical reaction to Frozen Empire. Bad Boys 4 gets better reviews and box office?

I’ve seen people make fun of the fact that fans care about Ghostbusters or it’s continuity and mythology. Like “Oh that stuff was suppose to be a joke you aren’t suppose to become invested in it” do you know what I mean? There’s this sort of smugness I see where it’s okay if you care about Star Wars and Star Trek but I see this reaction with some like “Ghostbusters? It was a silly comedy with ghost blows jobs. It’s not meant to be taken seriously” usually you see the same people say something like “Everyone knew they were making a comedy except Dan Aykroyd”. Which is ridiculous. But Dan bringing his passion to it is part of what makes Ghostbusters special.

The real problem Sony has is how do we get people excited about these movies again? Is that even possible?

I’ve seen others suggest the problem is that unlike sequels such as Bad Boys 4 or Top Gun 2 or even Beetlejuice it’s missing the key ingredient all those movies have. The original actors in lead roles. But in that case it wouldn’t even matter what version of a 3rd movie we got because every iteration was a passing the torch movie.

Frozen Empire was actually decently funny. Funnier than Afterlife. I’m not sure they played into that enough with the trailers. Kumail was great in it

[deadderek]

Ghostbusters FE is a damn sight better than Godzilla v Kong and a load of other movies that did better critically and at the box office.

The Michigan Ghostbusters have made their feelings about Frozen Empire very well known.

We all enjoyed the film but we're realistic when it comes to how it performed. Unsure why you brought up the team I'm on instead of just me.

[WCat2000]

I’ve seen people make fun of the fact that fans care about Ghostbusters or it’s continuity and mythology. Like “Oh that stuff was suppose to be a joke you aren’t suppose to become invested in it” do you know what I mean? There’s this sort of smugness I see where it’s okay if you care about Star Wars and Star Trek but I see this reaction with some like “Ghostbusters? It was a silly comedy with ghost blows jobs. It’s not meant to be taken seriously” usually you see the same people say something like “Everyone knew they were making a comedy except Dan Aykroyd”. Which is ridiculous. But Dan bringing his passion to it is part of what makes Ghostbusters special.

I HATE that too. Makes no sense whatsoever that of all the different fandoms...Ghostbusters is the only one you should never become invested in. It’s so true people are smug about it too. It’s always talking down to us saying we don’t “get” GB. Fortunately those people are in the minority.

Not sure how to get more people in theaters instead of waiting for streaming but I agree the 2016 movie and pandemic disrupted things. Marketing should be better.

I think the new cartoon will be great for the franchise even though it’ll be awhile. I know it’s supposed to be canon is someway but it will be mostly new. Especially to kids. New characters, stories and a proper toy line. It’s a fresh installment without being a reboot. It’s free to just be Ghostbusters. Not a specific movie.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

We all enjoyed the film but we're realistic when it comes to how it performed. Unsure why you brought up the team I'm on instead of just me.

On the first point I don’t think you’re being realistic because generally theatrical runs are underperforming with a few breakout hits. Sony had some major losses so they still need the Ghostbusters IP. Nobody expected a sequel to Afterlife, yet here we are. I also suspect these movies were even cheaper than advertised. It’s highly likely Frozen Empire has turned a small profit and at the very least kept the IP alive for another few years. The streaming figures show it is popular. The reason I think we’ll see a third movie: Gil and Jason want it, we haven’t had a formal announcement the team is moving on, we have a young cast who are now aging into adult roles. And mostly, because they just announced the Netflix series is entering production. An animated movie is in the pipeline. Until they start cancelling projects, I am confident at this point we will get a third movie with Phoebe & co.

I don’t think the MB team have acted like they enjoyed the movie, they’ve been very vocal on social media about it’s “failure”. I don’t know if there’s bts factors at play, but it was a notable reaction. I guess your response reminded me of that but nothing personal!

[BrianReilly]

Bad Boys 4 didn't exactly get a great critical reception, but it isn't the mess that Frozen Empire is either. It also delivers on what it promises, so the audience score is understandably much higher than Frozen Empire's (which lacks the titular frozen empire).

Has anyone actually seen a legacy sequel aside from Top Gun: Maverick that they genuinely thought was great? I'll be honest in that I don't actually like Top Gun: Maverick all that much personally, although it's great looking and impressive and, again, delivers on what it promises.

Ghostbusters just has had a not-that-well received sequel, a contentious reboot, and then two more "meh" sequels. I really like Ghostbusters so I show up for all of these movies. The general audience will show up when the movies are consistently good.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

Ghostbusters just has had a not-that-well received sequel, a contentious reboot, and then two more "meh" sequels. I really like Ghostbusters so I show up for all of these movies. The general audience will show up when the movies are consistently good.

There hasn’t been a bad Ghostbusters movie.
At worst they’ve been 3 stars rather than 5. The problem is the critical discourse around them online is toxic and full of bad actors who only pretend to care about the IP and want to hurt Sony and culture war.

Frozen Empire has flaws, but the complaint you reference is an expectation set by the marketing, not a fault of the movie itself. A chunk of the audience were going to hate it for existing no matter what, but I don’t understand how any Ghostbusters fan wasn’t thrilled by it tbh.

Sure, you can check a handful of things it didn’t do which would’ve improved things. But almost everything it did do was great and quintessentially 80’s Ghostbusters.

[timeware]

I think there's going to be a trilogy out of all this, but I wouldn't expect anything until after the situation with the Netflix animated movie is determined to be a theatrical release or a straight to streaming release. Having another Ghostbusters movie in the theatres so soon would be kind of nice. If they pull A clone Wars move with this and it runs for a few seasons i'd love to see the next GB movie focus on the kids in college. A little bit of a time jump.