[Ebobhazard84]

Since part of the response was directed at me (without specifically indicating it), I'm just going to leave my thoughts here.

I know all too well how long packs take to build. I built my girlfriend's pack back in 2022, I've been working on one literally since 2021 and it continues to this day, and I have another pack also in the process of being built right now.

I meant no disrespect by my suggestion and I'm sure Toby will help you get straightened out but the mere fact that you brushed off the suggestion of saying the packs are out of stock speaks volumes. By your own admission, there are supply chain issues (you know, not in stock) which make it impossible to complete a build but it's easier to deflect and say, "well hasn't anyone ever had this, this, and this going on!?" then following up the deflection by saying people are slandering you.

Spoiler alert, of course everyone has dealt with their own stuff. Nobody faults you for that, but again, if you are currently unable to supply the items you are offering, you plain and simple should not be continuing to sell them, especially under the false pretense that it will ship in 26 weeks, until you are able to do so reliably. Maybe offering a run model similar to what Freeky Geeky is doing with his all aluminum trap build would work better.

But you know what? It's your business, dude. Run it as you see fit. But a friendly observation? Running into the ground isn't such a great business model.

[kernuyckdave]

I’m not going to be getting into micro arguments with people as it’s really quite pointless, but to just clear up and misunderstanding here -

Yes, there are supply chain issues, and I think there will always be to a point? How many parts are there to a proton pack? I make a lot of my own pats but I also use a lot genuine and vintage parts, those will obviously be difficult to procure at times. I love how you also skipped over where it says very clearly on the website listing “by the nature of using only the very best items available on the market for our commissions, build times may vary depending on availability of parts” and also forgetting it says approximately 26 weeks. It’s very clearly outlined. Parts will become available after a while as they do or I end up finding an alternate source for parts, but sometimes it can be slower then I’d like. Things are not “unable to deliver” as you’ve stated, there are simply extended wait times.

There’s no deflection whatsoever, people are using defamatory statements here about me calling me a scammer and a con job. That is slanderous and untrue.

Also, how much does it cost to build a proton pack? If you’re in the middle of building 3 yourself you should have a rough idea. But for anyone who doesn’t know - its a considerably larger amount of value than some aluminium stock like it would cost to build a trap. How much do you think it would cost for me to make a run of 5 packs to sit on and wait to sell? I don’t make mega amounts of money in commissions, I have to pay list price on the things the same as anybody else. So maybe, a cost of £8 - £10k for 5 packs. That business model would never work like freekygeeky and his traps that just costs for aluminium as he machines his own stuff.

So, I appreciate your friendly observation but also it’s really not as simple as you have outlined your opinion.

[abaka]

I've never bought anything from Dave but I've been in the committee long enough to know when someone is dodgy/spamming and I don't get that from Dave.

I'd love to one day commission him to build a FE pack as my jaw drops at the level of detail he offers. Scammers wouldn't spend as much time perfecting their craft as what Dave does.

And if I ever get around to doing a FE build from Dave I'd have no doubt that I'll get the best pack I can get, and my money would be perfectly safe.

[Caleb Federico-Dyer]

Dave, nobody is trying to start anything or accuse you of anything, but when people pay for a product that is very expensive and people are still waiting several years for there items with little communication, that’s a issue and people get frustrated. I purchased something from you a year ago and still nothing from you no replies or updates that’s $500 just gone. I understand how long it takes I really do. But what are people suppose to believe, action speak louder than words.

People just want what they purchased because you do make incredible stuff.

[kernuyckdave]

I’m sorry to disagree, but they are absolutely trying to accuse me of stuff. Scroll yourself back only a few posts to see me being called a scammer and a con job.

Regarding your shell you ordered I have out multiple posts out regarding the issues I’ve had with shells about the chemicals not bonding correctly and causing delamination. That has since been solved and shells have been shipping out and as will yours be soon. But no one has been waiting “several years”, or 5 years as another has suggested… I’ve not even been doing this for 5 years. I don’t think you guys seem to understand the negative impact these over exaggerations that are thrown around have.

However, I do read this often and I hear everyone and can absolutely understand peoples concerns. As I’ve said - please please contact me to discuss things so I can give you clear and proper information instead of coming here and speculating and causing mass hysteria (see what I did there).

[stonecoldrmw]

Hi everyone, David from Proton Props here (yes, the very same thieving, scamming charlatan)

Well, quite an interesting catch up. I don't tend to post here much as it seems as though most people who like to stir up the drama and sensationalise wait times into me being a thief and a rogue make me feel like its a waste of effort when conclusions have been leaped to with little context. So, big thanks to those that have no vested money, time or interest in me or my business but fully enjoy upsetting other fantastic customers that are patient and understanding enough for the most part.

I'll do my best to explain some of the issues, so perhaps some people can take a break from running me down for a minute.

Supply chain... yes, believe it or not - there are supply chain issues. Still. Even after covid. Why is this? well, because im making a bespoke product that uses only the best parts available on the market. And often, due to the nature of what it is - those parts can dry up in supply on occasions. It's not like I can pop to a hardware store and pick up a few banjo replicas, or some hat lights is it? And only one place sells a lot of the parts that I use. And when they are out stock - what do I do? I have to wait. "Why are you taking more orders then?!" because i'm running a business, and the business needs to continue. I still have to pay my workshop rent, my business rates, my electricity bill and ultimately continue to buy stock, build new products, buy consumables and pay for things like my website. I can still build what I can with those new particular orders until other parts become available until such times. But no, I can't just stop taking orders, because then it all folds. I have taken on far less orders this year however to minimise the waiting list but enough to allow the business to continue. So there have been adjustments. Im still experiencing supply issues with certain parts but i'm not willing to 'out' any of my suppliers and be that guy, even though its difficult when im stuck in the middle trying to play the go between. Of course, there are cheaper alternate options, 3d printing parts etc. but Im not going to let the quality and the integrity of the final product be compromised over some extended wait times, this is something I stand by.

The supply chain however goes back some years that's not even resolved yet on one particular front... And I'll share some insight. Some know that I bought the masters and molds from Karnivorous Creations for his proton packs back in May 2021. I was buying shells, parts and wand parts from Mike for my builds before he decided he wanted to sell up. We agreed a price for the items and the permissions to reproduce with a delivery time of all items with me BY October 2021. We are now about to roll into 2025 and I still only have less than a 3rd of the molds and masters I've paid for. Obviously over the period of buying the molds etc in 2021 I didn't order any parts from Mike as once the molds landed with me I could start production myself. It took me almost 16 months to get just the shell and basic gun molds from mike for me to be able to start producing packs. This was the first massive delay, which far short of getting on a plane and physically going to his house to take what is mine - my hands were tied. As I said, I've still not received two thirds of what I paid for. Ive since obviously made alternate adjustments to make packs by making new masters and then making my own molds for parts I've not received. This in itself being a huge delay in the process, trying to play catch up from there has been one of the hardest things to do. I am however now having my shells made for me by a local fibreglass master so that's giving me some free time to focus on building. It's also something to bare run mind that some molds only have a certain shelf life and need re making often due to the stresses they go under before they get either wrecked or blown out. This can also be a lengthy process which depends heavily on the weather for getting the best results, same goes for actually pouring resin/casting parts and painting. When its cold and there is a lot of moisture in the air it doesn't yield the best results, and I refuse to send out anything that's not A1 quality.

Communications: I have never made any bones about my comms being somewhat poor. Separating the 'business' mind and the 'creative' mind can be very hard, and also a lot of customers tend to message once every few days asking for any updates... and when there is a huge amount of work to be done that would better suit my focus than telling someone the same thing I told them 48 hours ago, sometimes messages go unreplied immediately. There's also people who like to send me messages via my personal Facebook, WhatsApp, instagram, text message and email - I don't think most people would like to leave work but then have customers blowing up their own personal channels and info all hours of the day and night, as some customers forget about time zone differences.
Due to the nature and my great fortune of being lucky enough to have lots of customers and enquiries, subsequently there are a lot of emails and messages come through daily and sometimes ones can go missed - I simply encourage anyone if you've sent me a message and not heard back from me in the short term to just send me another to bump it. I won't get upset about it, it just brings it back to the top of the emails or chat list for me to see it. Moving forward to combat such issues though, Toby CJ has very kindly volunteered to assist with the online house keeping, and messages are being replied to in a more timely fashion than ever. So this is a very positive move to getting things back on track and restoring faith in the business and name Proton Props.

The people that have "No stock " and yet willingly sensationalise, accuse and slander what I do - I appreciate your concern in the matter, however if I was the crook that some of you are making me out to be - why do I still have all of my social media channels, my website and any online presence? Surely, I'd just vanish into the ether and give the community then middle finger? I'd wager a large portion of you have never built a pack, so you don't understand how long it can take to build one. Especially to the level of detail, quality and intricacies that I'm offering. I do this on my own, and to add to that - life happens. You can't all sit and point the finger and then tell me your life runs perfectly every week without anything happening... you never get sick? You never have to deal with family issues or bereavement? You've never had to deal with a break up? Never had days when're your brain will not allow you function, or deal with ongoing health conditions like I do with diabetes and severe ADHD? I am not using my illnesses as an excuse, they are just how my life is... But these things are not always straight forward, and things get pushed back, moved around, rescheduled and re organised. I've also moved workshop 3 times in the last 4 years, which is often a big disruption to proceedings but unfortunately have been necessary. Now, god forbid I was to have any sort of social life outside of this and have any time for me!

I am not a scam artist. Anyone that thinks that needs to taker their brain outside for a fart and have a real think what these kind of labels can do to a small business. I've seen other small businesses in the GB community completely fold due to such labels and being dragged through the mud, which is heartbreaking and unfair. A large portion of customers that were on here giving me grief that have since received their packs have not come back on to give an update, but have told me since how glad they were that they waited, and that the pack is the best things they've ever bought. It's a crying shame these forum dwellers don't come back to post positives to have some light and shade to the matter. I understand both sides of the dinner plate though, people have paid their money and they want their product - and I respect that. But you are not buying an 'off the shelf' item, these are built to the customers specifications and often have special requests for their packs, so this is not an overnight service.

I appreciate peoples custom, ongoing patience and general understanding of how difficult and complex it can be running a small, niche bespoke business providing some of the best available commissions on the market. I am not Hasbro, I cannot churn cheap packs out on a factory line. I pour my soul into my work. This is art. Art takes time and is worth the wait.

Now, as much as I would love to address each and every person here throwing about slanderous and nasty opinions - I really don't have the effort to offer to you a personal reply here. But as a blanket statement I will say this - If you feel like you have such a burning desire to say something about my business or me by labelling me a 'con job' or a 'scammer' , please PM me or come have a chat with me on my Facebook page or my Instagram account so I can address any questions or burning issues you have with me personally. I might be able to offer you specific insight and context into your conclusions, instead of you being a faceless forum goer and dragging me through the dirt.

In the next couple of weeks myself and Toby are having a 'heads together' session in person (the mans driving 5 hours to see me - I can't stress enough how valued this man is) to figure out a new way to handle the order book and will be updating outstanding customers with timeframes for potential completion for their commissions. If anybody here has read this far, please please send us a message on the new Facebook page with your order details so we can help and get your name in the book, we don't want to miss anyone out that's pre-website as i'm struggling too access my old Etsy sales information due to Etsy being very difficult now and obviously my last Facebook page got deleted due to my account being hacked so all previous comms non longer exist. Please follow my new Proton Props Facebook page after the last one got shut down due to my personal account being hacked into, I'd really appreciate it!

And if there's anything to take away from my essay of a thread reply, please just remember I am human. Much like all of us. Ive personally shelled out for commission props over the years and costume parts from people and its taken far longer than quoted, some i'm 3 years deep and still waiting for, but I appreciate these things take time and it can be the nature of the game sometimes. But, i'm doing my best, and i'm sorry if that's not enough for some. But for those who understand, respect it and are patient - Thank you!

Fair f**king play. I am glad you came back here to put your side across mate.

[Damian1227]

Alright. I'm out. I spoke my peace, and even read all of Dave's excuses (that's what they are. Excuses.) I'm still of the opinion and will continue to be of the opinion that Dave is taking advantage of buyers. But to people supporting you, Dave, yes I'm talking to you, you can run your business however you want. It's your business. As for a potential customer of Proton Props UK, if you choose to purchase from Dave, that's your choice and your funeral.

[Kingpin]

For those wondering, I deleted the last three posts because they were bogging the topic down in a personal tit-for-tat. I'll take this as an opportunity to remind all parties: Seller, customers and non-customer commentators to please keep the discussion civil.

Thank you.

[Bobdor]

Hello David, can you please get back to me?

I gave you $1,017.00 back in June 2023 for a DIY shell kit. When we spoke last in April it was going to be ready in the coming weeks. Since then I was able to get my hands on an Idealized Shell and Aluminum Thrower from Mack's Factory, and all the aluminum parts, hoses, clipards, electronics kit, from GBFans. I have fully sourced, assembled, and painted my own pack... I don't think you are a theif, but your business relations can really use some work. I have emailed about a refund several times because at this point, if/when my shell does show up, I am going to have to figure out what to do with it. Until then I am still out over $1,000 which could be better used elsewhere in my life.

Please get back to my so I can figure out how to move foreward...

[kernuyckdave]

Hello David, can you please get back to me?

I gave you $1,017.00 back in June 2023 for a DIY shell kit. When we spoke last in April it was going to be ready in the coming weeks. Since then I was able to get my hands on an Idealized Shell and Aluminum Thrower from Mack's Factory, and all the aluminum parts, hoses, clipards, electronics kit, from GBFans. I have fully sourced, assembled, and painted my own pack... I don't think you are a theif, but your business relations can really use some work. I have emailed about a refund several times because at this point, if/when my shell does show up, I am going to have to figure out what to do with it. Until then I am still out over $1,000 which could be better used elsewhere in my life.

Please get back to my so I can figure out how to move foreward...

As mentioned in my last few posts here, please send me a PM over on my new Facebook page as this weekend myself and Toby will be doing an order book review so it would be good to have you open a line of comms there please mate! If you haven’t got Facebook shoot me another email, usernames here aren’t much help to line up with customer names and order numbers etc. thanks!

[Specter Mitcher]

Not to jump into the fray too much here, but...I've got two packs on order with David. After seeing examples of his work and that of many other pack builders, I don't think I would trust anyone else to produce the product I want, which is a pack that looks like a functioning piece of equipment rather than just a replica. Do I want my packs tomorrow? Sure, who wouldn't....but I knew from the get go that wasn't the reality.