[One time]

It's fine to critique the movie (some I agree with, some I don't), but let's not speculate "the creatives want to destroy the ip they're working on" talk. That's a road too far.

Edit: Point taken. I amended my last post.

To clarify: It may have been a deliberate choice by the director. There are 13 characters in the movie already. They may have decided that exposition and deepening lore may have asked too much of the audience and decided to scale it back to be less cerebral.

[WCat2000]

I hate repeating myself because I’ve said this before here and other boards about various movies but all the GB1,2 > FE talk sound like nostalgia.

You’re glorifying everything in those first two movies as somehow being vastly superior when FE is very much in line with it.

I’m certain if GB2’s plot was used today people would have complained the mood slime/negative emotions was political, Vigo is just a guy in a medieval costume, Slimer driving the bus was a pointless callback and Janosz was an unnecessary accomplice.

Absolutely the same difference as complaining that freezing weather is boring, Garraka is not scary, library ghost is a pointless callback and Melody is unnecessary.

Take the nostalgia goggles off. There’s some stuff I would change about FE but it’s still a solid sequel imo. Even if you don’t like it it perfectly fine with the others.

I made an edit of the beginning of what I thought would have been cool. Since Grooberson is a GB fanboy I had him jamming out to the theme during his ghost chase.

Thats really cool. Would have been a perfect way to do it.

[GuyX]

I hate repeating myself because I’ve said this before here and other boards about various movies but all the GB1,2 > FE talk sound like nostalgia.

You’re glorifying everything in those first two movies as somehow being vastly superior when FE is very much in line with it.

I’m certain if GB2’s plot was used today people would have complained the mood slime/negative emotions was political, Vigo is just a guy in a medieval costume, Slimer driving the bus was a pointless callback and Janosz was an unnecessary accomplice.

Absolutely the same difference as complaining that freezing weather is boring, Garraka is not scary, library ghost is a pointless callback and Melody is unnecessary.

Take the nostalgia goggles off. There’s some stuff I would change about FE but it’s still a solid sequel imo. Even if you don’t like it it perfectly fine with the others.

OR

Now wait and just think about this for a minute. Maybe, just maybe, some people actually prefer the second movie and it has nothing to do with nostalgia and more to do with SOMEONE LIKING IT MORE-Because they find it legitimate superior.

Can I just address something? About your post? This nostalgia thing rubs me the wrong way.
No offence man but saying something is nostalgia because YOU don’t happen to share that opinion is pretty darn arrogant. GB2 is far from a perfect movie but it’s a much better film in my opinion than FE and that shit has nothing to do with nostalgia. Are they “glorifying” everything or just telling you what they think works? If you have to keep repeating that, you ever think you might be, ya know, wrong?

One can be nostalgic for something while also understanding why a movie works or doesn’t.

You could also say the people who prefer FE over GB2 are just fanboys who like anything new with the Ghostbusters label slapped on. I don’t think that’s true but you see where it can take you when you make assumptions about why people like something? It’s arrogant, a little condescending and kinda wrong(well it’s probably true for *someone* out there but based on the conversations on this board it isn’t).

I’m certain if GB2’s plot was used today people would have complained the mood slime/negative emotions was political, Vigo is just a guy in a medieval costume, Slimer driving the bus was a pointless callback and Janosz was an unnecessary accomplice.

I’m fairly certain people said that in 1989 too. What does that have to do with anything? It didn’t come out in today’s world. If it came out today the movie would be different. Probably not as good. Many of the people who worked on it in front of and behind the camera are dead.

But let’s examine it. What’s the issue with people saying mood slime is political? Why is that a problem? The Vigo costume is just distilling a thing down to its essentials. You can do that with literally anything. Gozer is a girl in plastic bubble wrap. Mr Stay Puft is a guy in a suit. So what? Slimer driving the bus IS a pointless callback. But it wasn’t suppose to be that way. It was part of an arc for Louis. However as is the sequence works despite it being a pointless callback. Why? This is where having Rick Moranis is like having LeBron come up clutch in the playoffs. Rick sells that moment and the ones preceding it. “Stay fit, keep sharp, make good decisions”. Finn Wolfhard isn’t LeBron. He’s not even Danny Green(iykyk)

Personally I don’t view GB2 with nostalgia goggles at all. I think it’s an extremely funny movie. Sometimes I think it may even be funnier than film 1. I think the mood slime is a very strong idea. Vigo is a terrific villain. Janosz is hilarious. The court room bust is an A+ set piece. The characters are great. I love seeing them. Whats holding it back from true greatness? The climax, covering some of the same ground, the lack of grit, not taking the mood slime idea a little further. One of the first drafts has a great idea where the GBs do go on television and tell New Yorkers they have to be nice to each other. What follows is a terrific montage of New Yorkers almost going at each others throats before realizing they need to be nice to each other. There’s some great scenes in the various drafts including where a rich man is about to murder his nagging wife, I would’ve loved to see these. Darker scenes with some social satire.

[WCat2000]

Now wait and just think about this for a minute. Maybe, just maybe, some people actually prefer the second movie and it has nothing to do with nostalgia and more to do with SOMEONE LIKING IT MORE-Because they find it legitimate superior.

Can I just address something? About your post? This nostalgia thing rubs me the wrong way.
No offence man but saying something is nostalgia because YOU don’t happen to share that opinion is pretty darn arrogant. GB2 is far from a perfect movie but it’s a much better film in my opinion than FE and that shit has nothing to do with nostalgia. Are they “glorifying” everything or just telling you what they think works? If you have to keep repeating that, you ever think you might be, ya know, wrong?

One can be nostalgic for something while also understanding why a movie works or doesn’t.

The thing is a lot of complaints about newer movie are usually the same. The odds of basically everything in older movies working better, even when situations are similar is just impossible. It comes off biased.

I’m fairly certain people said that in 1989 too. What does that have to do with anything? It didn’t come out in today’s world. If it came out today the movie would be different. Probably not as good. Many of the people who worked on it in front of and behind the camera are dead.

But let’s examine it. What’s the issue with people saying mood slime is political? Why is that a problem? The Vigo costume is just distilling a thing down to its essentials. You can do that with literally anything. Gozer is a girl in plastic bubble wrap. Mr Stay Puft is a guy in a suit.

Ya and you did exactly that with Garraka. Saying he was just a generic villain with a dress-like garment and horns.

It’s very easy to criticize things for whatever reason that fits your liking. That’s why I made those examples.

So what? Slimer driving the bus IS a pointless callback. But it wasn’t suppose to be that way. It was part of an arc for Louis. However as is the sequence works despite it being a pointless callback. Why? This is where having Rick Moranis is like having LeBron come up clutch in the playoffs. Rick sells that moment and the ones preceding it. “Stay fit, keep sharp, make good decisions”. Finn Wolfhard isn’t LeBron. He’s not even Danny Green(iykyk)

That’s my point again. Pretty much the same idea...but it’s automatically good with Louis and bad with Trevor. Neither had much an arc. As-is Slimer did not need to give Louis a ride. Another bus or taxi would have come. It was a nod to the cartoon in both movies.

And I agree GB2 is funnier than the first and the final battle is too much like Gozer’s.

[GuyX]

The thing is a lot of complaints about newer movie are usually the same. The odds of basically everything in older movies working better, even when situations are similar is just impossible. It comes off biased.

I think this is an extreme over simplistic evaluation that once again shows your thinking as being perhaps superior to others.

Modern blockbusters is what I assume you mean here, no? If that’s the case then yes. There are common complaints that I think you are hand waving away here. An over reliance on CGI, plot contrivances to allow for fan service and the so called member berries.

And of course it’s bias! People like what they like. They aren’t professional movie critics. I have a bias. Want to know what it is? I only like good movies.

And if you are finding complaints against newer movies to be the same how can it not enter your mind that perhaps these are legitimate concerns born out of Hollywood relying less on original ideas & more on superhero films, sequels, reboots and the like? We don’t get the big budgeted big swings like a Matrix or Star Wars or Ghostbusters anymore. There’s nostalgia there certainly. Nostalgia for a time when movies had things audiences haven’t seen before. That’s what people miss I think. And it’s hard to begrudge them for that.

That’s my point again. Pretty much the same idea...but it’s automatically good with Louis and bad with Trevor. Neither had much an arc. As-is Slimer did not need to give Louis a ride. Another bus or taxi would have come. It was a nod to the cartoon in both movies.

Because Louis is played by an extremely talented comedian and Trevor is played by…not that. Nothing is “automatically good”. I don’t know why you would say or assume that. Rick Moranis did not star in banger after Banger. And you’ll note a film series doing sometime twice vs 3 times is worth considering. This is Slimer’s 3rd appearance for the sake of it just being Slimer if you count the 2016 film. It wears thin.

Movies and cartoons are two very different things, right? As I said in an earlier comment it’s the difference between waiting a day or week between episodes and years for a new movie. Why is that important? Maybe it wouldn’t be if Ghostbusters was a 200 million dollar budgeted behemoth stacked to the brim with creativity and ghosts. But it’s a fairly limited budget film that needs to be EXTREMELY careful how it uses resources of money & time.

And movies aren’t made in a vacuum. for Frozen Empire it’s different set of circumstances than with GB2. There are not millions upon millions of children awaiting Slimer because he’s featured in an extremely popular cartoon every friggn day.

Ya and you did exactly that with Garraka. Saying he was just a generic villain with a dress-like garment and horns.

It’s very easy to criticize things for whatever reason that fits your liking. That’s why I made those examples.

Except those weren’t my only reasons were they? That was a conversation about his design. It was specific to the look of the thing. I didn’t state that apropos of nothing.

[Nate Dawg]

Everytime I come here y’all chip away at my Frozen Empire enjoyment. Everytime i rewatch I see the flaws. Cant a fella just enjoy a movie in peace lmao.

It’s so true that the fan service is empty and I almost feel bad for liking it. I loved seeing Slimer & the Library ghost but would I have liked seeing something new as well? Yes.

Melody was a character I really liked. I could’ve watched a movie with just Melody and Phoebe. I almost feel like they wasted the good idea of a ghost friendship between two girls. And the one girl maybe wanting to be with the ghost and having it be a metaphor for self harm & suicide. There’s something powerful there. Not exactly great comedy material but the actors did great! It feels like an idea that could support a whole other movie.

And don’t be so hard on Finn Wolfhard. I swear it’s just because of the Stranger Things connection.

I think the marketing maybe worked against Garraka a bit. There was the expectation vs the reality. To me it felt like an episode of the cartoon. Is he terrifying? No.And it is a shame the ending is so confined. But it’s a satisfying story. The fire masters is a cool bit of lore.

Does anyone else feel like this had a lower budget than Afterlife? The Egon CGI effects couldn’t have been cheap. Plus the practical stuff.

[WCat2000]

And if you are finding complaints against newer movies to be the same how can it not enter your mind that perhaps these are legitimate concerns born out of Hollywood relying less on original ideas & more on superhero films, sequels, reboots and the like? We don’t get the big budgeted big swings like a Matrix or Star Wars or Ghostbusters anymore. There’s nostalgia there certainly. Nostalgia for a time when movies had things audiences haven’t seen before. That’s what people miss I think. And it’s hard to begrudge them for that.

It’s entered my mind. At first I kind of agreed these complaints but when actually comparing them to older or previous movies in a series it just felt like a double standard...older movies can do things that newer movies can’t. Even when there’s effort to introduce change.

Because Louis is played by an extremely talented comedian and Trevor is played by…not that. Nothing is “automatically good”. I don’t know why you would say or assume that. Rick Moranis did not star in banger after Banger. And you’ll note a film series doing sometime twice vs 3 times is worth considering. This is Slimer’s 3rd appearance for the sake of it just being Slimer if you count the 2016 film. It wears thin.

Ok you think it was done better with Louis because “Moranis is extremely talented and Wolfhard is not”.

I don’t think it matters who the actor is. The point and focus of the nod is Slimer. Neither Moranis or Wolfhard does much acting in these scenes. They barely talk.

Movies and cartoons are two very different things, right? As I said in an earlier comment it’s the difference between waiting a day or week between episodes and years for a new movie. Why is that important? Maybe it wouldn’t be if Ghostbusters was a 200 million dollar budgeted behemoth stacked to the brim with creativity and ghosts. But it’s a fairly limited budget film that needs to be EXTREMELY careful how it uses resources of money & time.

And movies aren’t made in a vacuum. for Frozen Empire it’s different set of circumstances than with GB2. There are not millions upon millions of children awaiting Slimer because he’s featured in an extremely popular cartoon every friggn day.

Slimer has become a mascot. If it takes place in NY he’s most likely going to appear. I don’t think that’s a problem. He didn’t appear in Afterlife.

Except those weren’t my only reasons were they? That was a conversation about his design. It was specific to the look of the thing. I didn’t state that apropos of nothing.

Scarier than Vigo? Garaka isn’t a hair on Vigo’s ass. Vigo is damn nightmare fuel.

Slightly modified Vlad the Impaler? And that means what? He’s not as scary as the skinny horned silent grey thing with Mr Freeze powers? Vlad the Impaler was a real person. Rasputin was a real person. Garaka looks like he was on a minty gum commercial once.

Want to know why Vigo is scarier? Personality. Vigo says some scary shit. The man’s head died! His head Kingpin!He’s got Presence even when he’s not on screen. “Wiiiinnnston”. I don’t see Garaka busting out the decapitated heads. Just some icicles and a couple bad cases of frost bite they aren’t walking away from.

Garaka is visually distinct aka looks different from other villains. Yes. So does a baseball. So what? No I get what you are saying,maybe we just have different tastes but Garaka is poorly designed because he’s a villain that isn’t scary. And kinda looks like he’s wearing a dress. Which…cool(heh). If that’s his thing. But it doesn’t inspire fear

This is your exact description and comparison of Vigo and Garraka.

How is that NOT in apropos to anything? It’s a direct breakdown of why you think Vigo is better and scarier. Who you prefer is not my point. It’s that it all comes off childish and ya biased. Like you’re Vigo’s hype man.

[GuyX]

I don’t think it matters who the actor is. The point and focus of the nod is Slimer. Neither Moranis or Wolfhard does much acting in these scenes. They barely talk.

That sound you heard is every actor that’s ever lived facepalming themselves

You don’t think it matters who the actor is? They don’t do much acting? They barely talk?

What!?!

So when they made silent films I guess all that talking they didn’t do wasn’t acting? Like come on man.

I could go on about how so much of acting is reacting, the role editing and shot composition has to play, dead pans and spit takes, the difference between Rick Moranis a trained second city veteran & ya boi Finn but you’d probably accuse me of being a Rick Moranis hype man

The complete lack of respect and understanding you just showed toward the craft of acting is…I thought what you said about film grain a few weeks back was bad but man oh man. You topped yourself here.

The actor is EVERYTHING in a scene with a green bulbous ghoul.

For the record I don’t think Finn is a bad actor. But I don’t think he’s effective in this role or when stacked up to a legend like Rick.

How is that NOT in apropos to anything? It’s a direct breakdown of why you think Vigo is better and scarier. Who you prefer is not my point. It’s that it all comes off childish and ya biased. Like you’re Vigo’s hype man.

It was apropos and germane to the conversation I was having with someone else. Those were not the only points I made. You are highlighting one particular element in a conversation that spanned a few replies.

Whether or not it comes off as childish doesn’t concern me, I can be extremely childish & worse, what concerns me is you using the word bias like we (Kingpin and I)weren’t talking about preference.

Your whole thing was in “if they released the movie today they’d say this and that and Vigo would be a middle evil costumed guy”

Of course you are ignoring MANY people are alive now that weren’t in 1989 and have seen the movie for the first time in today’s world. Some of them even film themselves doing so and release it on YouTube. You’ll find a common refrain. Vigo is terrifying.

My point was Vigo has presence. Max Von Sydow tends to have that affect. And the man who plays Vigo is quite formidable.

And therein lies the answer. Vigo is scary because he’s real. Flesh and blood. He even sat on a throne of it!

I find the things Vigo can do scarier than, again, what amounts to Mr. Freeze powers. If I’m coming off as a hype man then that’s probably because I think Vigo is the scariest villain, by far, the live action GBs have faced. He’s Vigo! We are like the buzzing of flies to him

When he’s just a painting he’s creepy.

Garaka doesn’t have a single moment that is as creepy as Vigo smirking and winking at Dana. Or his head bulging out of the painting, or his face twisting and contorting. The sounds he makes. We don’t even see him in the subway sequence but we feel his presence

Garaka just freezes some people. It’s deadly. It’s threatening. But it’s not particularly creepy.

One thing Garaka has that Viggy doesn’t is Vigo is dispatched too easily. Like I’ve stated numerous times. The film ain’t perfect.

[mrmichaelt]

I think both Vigo and Garraka were dispatched too quickly/easily because the typical end of movie baddie showdown. Both resisted the proton streams and immobilized the Ghostbusters and in their moment of triumph, their lack of foresight was their undoing. Vigo underestimated the Ghostbusters finding something to break through the slime shell and the people of New York being able to generate enough positive psychmagnotheric energy to weaken him and Garraka underestimated the Ghostbusters' ability to adapt - Phoebe augmenting her pack and Ray using the ECU as a trap - as well as Melody's allegiance.

[GuyX]

I think both Vigo and Garraka were dispatched too quickly/easily because the typical end of movie baddie showdown. Both resisted the proton streams and immobilized the Ghostbusters and in their moment of triumph, their lack of foresight was their undoing. Vigo underestimated the Ghostbusters finding something to break through the slime shell and the people of New York being able to generate enough positive psychmagnotheric energy to weaken him and Garraka underestimated the Ghostbusters' ability to adapt - Phoebe augmenting her pack and Ray using the ECU as a trap - as well as Melody's allegiance.

Yeah ok I’d agree with that.

Part of it is also, we know more about went on behind the scenes of GB2 and how they struggled with that climax and essentially just ran out of time. I think I remember reading on here from people who know far more than I about ideas Ivan had that they just couldn’t do due to the release date fast approaching. Which isn’t an excuse since he agreed to the schedule and went into production with the script he had but we know THEY knew it was a problem. There was maybe something about other paintings or items in the museum that Vigo casts a spell on or something and the GBs have to deal with that. That sounds familiar.

I’m not sure if we have those accounts from FE. I know a script has never been released from either Afterlife or FE which is annoying. Maybe some day.

[mrmichaelt]

There was maybe something about other paintings or items in the museum that Vigo casts a spell on or something and the GBs have to deal with that. That sounds familiar.

Yeah, that was at least in concept art. As he walked through the museum, the other things on display were animated.

I’m not sure if we have those accounts from FE. I know a script has never been released from either Afterlife or FE which is annoying. Maybe some day.

Hopefully we won't have to wait 30-40 years for more definitive behind-the-scenes info on making the movies...

[BatDan]

A good handful of nominations at the Saturn Awards.

Aykroyd should have been nominated for Best Supporting but thats just me.

https://deadline.com/2024/12/saturn-aw ... 236195149/

[gerard55]

I think both Vigo and Garraka were dispatched too quickly/easily because the typical end of movie baddie showdown. Both resisted the proton streams and immobilized the Ghostbusters and in their moment of triumph, their lack of foresight was their undoing. Vigo underestimated the Ghostbusters finding something to break through the slime shell and the people of New York being able to generate enough positive psychmagnotheric energy to weaken him and Garraka underestimated the Ghostbusters' ability to adapt - Phoebe augmenting her pack and Ray using the ECU as a trap - as well as Melody's allegiance.

Yeah ok I’d agree with that.

Part of it is also, we know more about went on behind the scenes of GB2 and how they struggled with that climax and essentially just ran out of time. I think I remember reading on here from people who know far more than I about ideas Ivan had that they just couldn’t do due to the release date fast approaching. Which isn’t an excuse since he agreed to the schedule and went into production with the script he had but we know THEY knew it was a problem. There was maybe something about other paintings or items in the museum that Vigo casts a spell on or something and the GBs have to deal with that. That sounds familiar.

I’m not sure if we have those accounts from FE. I know a script has never been released from either Afterlife or FE which is annoying. Maybe some day.

I wouldn't be against revisiting Vigo in some way, I mean he was just sent back into the painting, and he's a ghost so the explosion really wouldn't mean much as to him "surviving" if that's the correct term? He could have just been blasted back into another realm.

[Kingpin]

I wouldn't be against revisiting Vigo in some way, I mean he was just sent back into the painting, and he's a ghost so the explosion really wouldn't mean much as to him "surviving" if that's the correct term? He could have just been blasted back into another realm.

I don't feel there's much to gain from bringing back Vigo. Bringing back Gozer was the source of some criticism for Afterlife, though I was okay with the decision... Not to mention the fact that both Vigo's actor and voice actor have both died.

Let's leave Vigo destroyed. I'd rather we keep on the course of new villains now.

[WCat2000]

Well Gozer was played by someone else in Afterlife so I don’t think that’s a problem.

I don’t mind if Vigo returns but probably better if he’s used in the cartoon instead...assuming it really is in continuity with the movies. The Death is a door, Time is a window thing would allow him to come back at any time period. So if the cartoon takes place in the future that’d be good. Anytime post FE really.

[mrmichaelt]

I wouldn't be against revisiting Vigo in some way, I mean he was just sent back into the painting, and he's a ghost so the explosion really wouldn't mean much as to him "surviving" if that's the correct term? He could have just been blasted back into another realm.

It wasn't until the GB2 commentary until we got some more detail on his defeat. Aykroyd said he was dispatched to the "next dimension or the afterworld."

[GuyX]

I wouldn't be against revisiting Vigo in some way, I mean he was just sent back into the painting, and he's a ghost so the explosion really wouldn't mean much as to him "surviving" if that's the correct term? He could have just been blasted back into another realm.

I don't feel there's much to gain from bringing back Vigo. Bringing back Gozer was the source of some criticism for Afterlife, though I was okay with the decision... Not to mention the fact that both Vigo's actor and voice actor have both died.

Let's leave Vigo destroyed. I'd rather we keep on the course of new villains now.

Exactly. There’s no way you are going to get a better voice or face than the actor we had. Let’s get something new. Leave Vigo alone.

One of the things missing from the new sequels for me is the high concept idea. The first film we were introduced to the world. The second film gave us the mood slime. Positive human emotions and negative human emotions. The villain played into that theme.

Say what you want about GB2 as a film but the IDEA. The high concept, is really strong.

This is why I always liked the Hell Idea for Dan Aykroyd’s GB3 and the phase shift between the real world and Manhelton. That we will never see that is a damn shame.

I think they could easily reuse that core idea. Ghostbusters face off against the big cheese of evil him self. Donald Tr—I mean Lou Sifler. Hades.

[mrmichaelt]

YHS interviewed Logan Kim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdIqG9yEvnE

[Davideverona]

I'll listen to it (I'm at work) but right now I'd like to know if he mention future movies. Thanks.

[mrmichaelt]

I'll listen to it (I'm at work) but right now I'd like to know if he mention future movies. Thanks.

Only that he's heard nothing yet.

[One time]

I've been looking at the special features on the FE Bluray.

One thing I've noticed is about Slimer. I always thought he looked good in FE, being a latex puppet it was perfectly in line with the original. Although I have a remark about it.

Looking at the FE Bluray special features it appears that for FE they painted Slimer by hand in an acrylic bright green color. While it looks very bright and very close to GB1 it doesn't look as "glowy" for want of a better word.

Then I found out that for GB1 they didn't paint him in just a very bright green (RAL 6018 equivalent), but for GB1 they actually painted Slimer a neon/fluorescent green (RAL 6038 / RAL 1026 equivalent).

The difference between normal paint and fluorescent/neon paint (sometimes called phosphorescent paint) is that these actually give off light when illuminated by UV heavy light.

It could be that this was one of the reasons that in earlier movies this puppet seemed to glow more.

I've always loved GB1 Slimer. Because it was a creature that had a personality that was part familiar (Gluttony, etc) but also part unlike any other creature that we recognized. Psychologically you could not get a read on it.

One moment it was calm, a split second later it was manic and terrifying. It was like something you could never predict what it was going to do.

For FE, personally, I would have had more variance in the speed of its movements. From a normalish speed, to a hyper speed, to accentuate the chaos of its unpredictability.

I love in GB1 that when it's eating it's oblivious to anything around it. Yet once it notices something (like Venkman) it stops for a minute, calms right down, assesses the situation and then goes into berserk mode.

They could have amped that trait up, 40 years later with the moviemaking skills in FE.

A minor nitpick admittedly (and I love FE), but we are here to discuss our opinions and ideas aren't we?

[joezlo]

FE is an excellent 2 hr episode of RGB & XBG in one.

The effects are the best in a GB sequel since 2.

Every member of the cast has their moment to shine (which is the hardest part to pull off, just like in a group team comic)

I could hyper analyze it and find stuff, but that would be increasing the temperature in the room and taking away the puppy.

[Bison256]

FE is an excellent 2 hr episode of RGB & XBG in one.

The effects are the best in a GB sequel since 2.

Every member of the cast has their moment to shine (which is the hardest part to pull off, just like in a group team comic)

I could hyper analyze it and find stuff, but that would be increasing the temperature in the room and taking away the puppy.

I think some people have really low standards. Frozen Empire has a really weak script. It's clear that the production was rushed by Sony. Its not Madame Web or Karvan level of bad but it's a decline from Afterlife.

[Kingpin]

I think some people have really low standards.

That's rather unfair. I could unfairly claim that the people who didn't enjoy the film had too high a set of standards.

It's not Shakespeare, sure, but it's no Sasusage Party, Human Centipede, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Santa Claus Conquers the Martians or Mac and Me to name a few really crappy offerings. It set out to be a comedy film and a Ghostbusters film, and I feel it achieved both with reasonable success.

[BatDan]

you mean the standards set by Afterlife? Lol

Thats an unfair statement in of itself, Ben.

Frozen Empire was a step down in quality compared to Afterlife no matter how much you dont want it to be. You can love it as a Ghostbusters fan and thats fine.

But you cant ignore the fact that Critical and audience reception all around the world can be narrowed down to “mixed.” Theres alot of things to love about it, but its not a “strong” movie overall.

[One time]

you mean the standards set by Afterlife? Lol

Thats an unfair statement in of itself, Ben.

Frozen Empire was a step down in quality compared to Afterlife no matter how much you dont want it to be. You can love it as a Ghostbusters fan and thats fine.

But you cant ignore the fact that Critical and audience reception all around the world can be narrowed down to “mixed.” Theres alot of things to love about it, but its not a “strong” movie overall.

I love FE and I have to agree with you. It is objectively not as good a movie, script wise, pacing wise, being in line with the Ghostbusters universe and fan expectation wise, etc.

But also in terms of objective details. Look at the awesome workbench proton pack prop for Afterlife and look at the version in FE that Phoebe adds the brass components to. The FE looks like a rubber stunt used in a closeup shot.

Or the scene at the end when you can see Phoebe wear a Hasbro pack where they've just left the Hasbro weathering and
left the original flat Hasbro ion arm end cap and not bothered to get an Etsy 3D printed one with the 2 screws. Not bothered to weather it, etc.

On the whole the attention to detail and the critical eye was much less in FE than in AF.

I'll put it this way. FE was a nice movie but personally I could think of 30 things it could have done better. I think AF is a great movie and can think of only 1 or 2 things that would improve it in my view.

[Kingpin]

But also in terms of objective details.

There's plenty of objective details in 1, 2 and Afterlife that if we were to pour over obsessively would not stand up to scrutiny: The missing Rear Instrument Bar covers and burned out light bulbs, the broken fibreglass Proton Pack parts and the Ecto-2 licence plate, the almost impossible to see Pack lights and the Spirit Halloween Ghost Traps in the Trap field.

Which shot of Phoebe's Pack from the brass-plating scene are you specifically referring to? Either way, I think you're being far harsher on the prop and the prop team than it genuinely deserves. Beside the moment where it bounces on the counter-top, the prop looks solid and believable.

And the average member of the public wouldn't know Mckenna's wearing a HasLab Pack, and as I mentioned a moment ago, Afterlife used a buttload of Spirit Traps for the Trap Field. The HasLab Packs worked as quick solutions to bulk up the number of Proton Packs props that the film production had to hand.

And they're hardly the worst Proton Pack props we've seen on-screen, that honour is held by the foam stunt packs from the original film.

On the whole, the attention to detail in Frozen Empire was pretty damn decent. Maybe not perfect, but still damn decent in most areas... Certainly the set and prop productions. Even knowing the film wasn't shot in Fire Station №23, I still have to remind myself of that from time to time because the set replica they built of it is that good.

I've put this bit last because I don't want it to get lost in the back-and-forth about talking about the props or the other bits of attention to detail:

Frozen Empire was a step down in quality compared to Afterlife no matter how much you dont want it to be.

This isn't about the quality of the production, it's about saying that those people who enjoyed Frozen Empire only enjoyed it because they have "low standards". I take umbrage with that suggestion because it strikes me as being needlessly snobby and unkind.

We saw similar remarks back in 2016 and I'm considerably disappointed to see it being bandied about again 8 years later. You can say you didn't personally enjoy the film... That's fair and reasonable... What isn't fair or reasonable is taking a cheap shot at the people who did enjoy it.

[BatDan]

And thats fair—to be insulted for your tastes is never a healthy feeling and i agree.

Im not saying that the “low standard” comment which was said is “right”

Im just saying theres some weight and truth behind that sentiment.

[One time]

I'd agree with Kingpin and I think BatDan would agree too.

It's pros and cons. I like GB1 enough that I don't mind its flaws.

I am really heavy into props and stuff so the FE prop based details for me outweighed (well, a little) the story, etc.

Other people couldn't care less about prop minutiae and for them the other positive traits in FE (the action, story etc.) were enough to love the movie.

To be frank, I love FE too, although I (personally, from where I'm standing and my preferences) find more faults with it than Afterlife.

But to each their own. I do have to say though. If you have the bluray and watch the deleted scenes for FE, they add SO much more meaning to it. Nadeems conversation with the group in the kitchen, Venkman and Grooberson's talk in the basement. If those scenes had been in it (for me) it would have been much better. (I had the same comment on GB 2016, the extended version of that (for me) is much better than the theatrical release.)

In the end, I guess the only thing that really (objectively) matters is the money FE made the studio.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

I think partly the damage to most people’s perception of Frozen Empire was the decision to showcase the frozen New York aspect in trailer 1, when it barely features in the movie until right at the end. They wanted to say “hey, we’re not using Gozer again” - which was great - but the audience was expecting significantly more frozen empire. And can you really use a climate-based supernatural entity in the 21st century and not have a rudimentary subtext about climate change?

Also I loved the Melody depiction and arc, but they should perhaps have used her more mysteriously initially, have her appearances be more spooky and ghostly with Phoebe researching her back story for exposition whilst grounded, as opposed to her immediately walking around and chatting like… real ghostbusters, because it jarred with some audiences. Also lore wise it might’ve been good to establish that ghosts manifesting uses energy or something to explain why all ghosts don’t just sit chilling and socialising. But for me personally, I was 100% on board with her and think she’s a standout character. But a lot of people I’ve spoken to hated her and how she was visualised.

So I get the opinion some have expressed, that both the frozen NYC and Melody arcs were underdeveloped, and some of the character arcs didn’t get enough screentime as there were too many. But… I think there’s some over-analyzing going on. I enjoy the hell out of the movie and I rate it more than Afterlife because it’s denser, casually funnier and doesn’t have the handbrake-pulling cameos mid-climax.