[Bison256]

You can't conceal the containment unit. A the utilities for the building are in the basement. B the containment unit uses power, who ever owned the building was paying for that, as clearly the unit didn't fail and blow up again. The problem we have here the the scene with containment unit was added late in afterlife's production so it clashes hard with the "Its a Starbucks now" line. Maybe Winston owned the building the whole time?

[mrmichaelt]

You can't conceal the containment unit. A the utilities for the building are in the basement. B the containment unit uses power, who ever owned the building was paying for that, as clearly the unit didn't fail and blow up again. The problem we have here the the scene with containment unit was added late in afterlife's production so it clashes hard with the "Its a Starbucks now" line. Maybe Winston owned the building the whole time?

Dang, that's right. The utilities are there.

No, I asked Eric Reich back then and he confirmed Winston only bought it after the Gozer battle in Afterlife.

[WCat2000]

Whoever bought the Firehouse could have agreed to leave the Containment Unit on. Maybe they believe in ghosts and knew it was required to stay on.

Summerville must have had internet. I live in a small rural town and have never taken notice of our cell towers. The Spengler’s were basically broke but like most people they consider the internet essential so they made sure it was on.

When they went out if business doesn’t bother me. Supernatural activity slowing or stopping in NY at least is perfectly possible.

Only the Ray and Egon disagreement still bothers me. A feud/drifting apart works ok...but 10 years in Summerville and Egon still could not properly articulate what was happening? When did he find the Gozer temple? I can’t headcanon this together. Haha.

[mrmichaelt]

Whoever bought the Firehouse could have agreed to leave the Containment Unit on. Maybe they believe in ghosts and knew it was required to stay on.

Perhaps. Sort of like some of the older casinos in Vegas. There are areas that are abandoned and not fully operational anymore sometimes just used for storage that employees rarely go.

but 10 years in Summerville and Egon still could not properly articulate what was happening? When did he find the Gozer temple? I can’t headcanon this together. Haha.

I wondered if Egon also tried to tell Peter and Winston. Plus, Janine was visiting him and likely heard and saw all of his research - she couldn't vouch for him and try to convince the others when a late night call out of the blue from someone claiming to be Egon's granddaughter was the breakthrough that got them in Summerville?

[WCat2000]

but 10 years in Summerville and Egon still could not properly articulate what was happening? When did he find the Gozer temple? I can’t headcanon this together. Haha.

I wondered if Egon also tried to tell Peter and Winston. Plus, Janine was visiting him and likely heard and saw all of his research - she couldn't vouch for him and try to convince the others when a late night call out of the blue from someone claiming to be Egon's granddaughter was the breakthrough that got them in Summerville?

I never even thought of that. I could see him contacting Peter and Winston but them being too busy to go help him but ya Janine could have easily cleared up things.

My issue is he traced whatever he was researching to Summerville. What took him so long to figure it out? The mines were even labeled Shandor yet Ray says he was just talking about a rising storm. All he would have needed say was “I found an active Gozer temple.” Surely Ray would take that seriously.

[mrmichaelt]

My issue is he traced whatever he was researching to Summerville. What took him so long to figure it out? The mines were even labeled Shandor yet Ray says he was just talking about a rising storm. All he would have needed say was “I found an active Gozer temple.” Surely Ray would take that seriously.

If I remember Ray's lines, it sounded like Egon got obsessed with apocalypse myth in general or in other words he wasn't obsessed with Shandor and Gozer immediately post-GB2. I was a little curious about that, did Egon immediately go to Summerville after leaving NYC? Or was he living in various states, eventually discovering something new about Shandor and ending up in Summerville in the 2010s when he called up Ray about the rising storm?

But yeah, Shandor wasn't even trying to hide his hand in Summerville's founding. The mining company had his name. All Ray had to do was look up Ivo Shandor's estate in the 2010 era to verify Egon's claims. The 'Ray must have been really mad it blinded him to reason' bit can get flimsy I'll admit. Though in Frozen Empire's lead up they did mention in either press materials or an article that Podcast 'dragged' Ray into modern of tech and they started the online show Repossessed. It's grasping but maybe Ray didn't even have Internet? Mmm, well, he could have gone to the library and looked it up there.

[WCat2000]

My issue is he traced whatever he was researching to Summerville. What took him so long to figure it out? The mines were even labeled Shandor yet Ray says he was just talking about a rising storm. All he would have needed say was “I found an active Gozer temple.” Surely Ray would take that seriously.

If I remember Ray's lines, it sounded like Egon got obsessed with apocalypse myth in general or in other words he wasn't obsessed with Shandor and Gozer immediately post-GB2. I was a little curious about that, did Egon immediately go to Summerville after leaving NYC? Or was he living in various states, eventually discovering something new about Shandor and ending up in Summerville in the 2010s when he called up Ray about the rising storm?

But yeah, Shandor wasn't even trying to hide his hand in Summerville's founding. The mining company had his name. All Ray had to do was look up Ivo Shandor's estate in the 2010 era to verify Egon's claims. The 'Ray must have been really mad it blinded him to reason' bit can get flimsy I'll admit. Though in Frozen Empire's lead up they did mention in either press materials or an article that Podcast 'dragged' Ray into modern of tech and they started the online show Repossessed. It's grasping but maybe Ray didn't even have Internet? Mmm, well, he could have gone to the library and looked it up there.

I really like the idea he traveled around for awhile looking into different myths and legends before narrowing it down to Summerville. That explains so much time passing since leaving NY too.

Still he never mentions Gozer or Shandor to Ray apparently. Ya this is where it gets flimsy. Ray says he wanted to believe him but Phoebe interrupts him. I don’t think there was anymore to that conversation. It was probably written like this.

[Light em Up]

Not that it's official, but I recall the Spengler Journal touching on Ray's opinion of another Gozer temple. He had told Egon that the temple he found was inert, otherwise it would have ignited a crossrip long before 1984.

I, too, have wondered about Egon trying to contact the other guys. Winston did have that line about how he should have called. On the surface, it comes off like he wishes he had stayed in touch. But perhaps Egon did try to reach out to all of them and was unsuccessful. I'm not sure how I feel about that. It was bad enough that Ray wasn't there for him.

I'm still torn on the Ray/Egon dynamic in the film. I would have preferred either Egon didn't try and reach back out, or have Ray not take the call out of bitterness. There are still fingers to be pointed there, but I think it would be better than Ray simply choosing to write him off.

Ray's call with Phoebe was originally much longer, according to Eric Reich. I would be interested to know if that provided any more context. We know in the original cut that Janine visited both Peter and Winston, and is with all of them at the farmhouse during the finale. Yet, she doesn't visit Ray as far as we know. I feel like there's a scene missing. Perhaps she comes to the bookstore, intending to to tell Ray about Egon's passing, and Ray tells her of the phone call. Janine confirms Phoebe really is Egon's granddaughter and urges him to check it out?

We may never know without those deleted scenes.

[mrmichaelt]

Not that it's official, but I recall the Spengler Journal touching on Ray's opinion of another Gozer temple. He had told Egon that the temple he found was inert, otherwise it would have ignited a crossrip long before 1984.

Luckily they trapped Gozer. If they had sent Gozer back through the portal again like in GB1, they probably would have had to look really carefully to see if Shandor built another temple elsewhere. But I guess they should anyway because those temples by themselves are magnets for P.K.E. that store it over decades to cause a cross rip.

I, too, have wondered about Egon trying to contact the other guys. Winston did have that line about how he should have called. On the surface, it comes off like he wishes he had stayed in touch. But perhaps Egon did try to reach out to all of them and was unsuccessful. I'm not sure how I feel about that. It was bad enough that Ray wasn't there for him.

Winston, I could see how he never got around to calling up Egon being a CEO of a highly successful company - he got busy with his work. And then Egon's calls probably didn't make it past the automated response system and/or executive assistants who toss out a crazy sounding message. Peter, I'm not so sure.

Ray's call with Phoebe was originally much longer, according to Eric Reich. I would be interested to know if that provided any more context. We know in the original cut that Janine visited both Peter and Winston, and is with all of them at the farmhouse during the finale. Yet, she doesn't visit Ray as far as we know. I feel like there's a scene missing. Perhaps she comes to the bookstore, intending to to tell Ray about Egon's passing, and Ray tells her of the phone call. Janine confirms Phoebe really is Egon's granddaughter and urges him to check it out?

We may never know without those deleted scenes.

Yes, I think so, too. She went to Peter and Winston first then by the time she went to Ray that was after the phone call and she verified meeting Phoebe and the race is on to collect Peter and Winston and head to Summerville. The point in which the Spenglers arrive in Summerville to trapping Gozer is a span of 5 days in the movie so Janine taking that much time to take a flight back to New York, settle back in, carve out time to meet with Peter and Dana upstate, come back, meet with Winston, and meet with Ray would take 3-4 days of that time frame. Plus, I'm sure she was aware out of the 3, Ray took it the hardest and was going to see him last if the other 2 declined to take the ashes. Come to think of, that's another mystery - what did they ultimately decide to do with Egon's ashes.

[WCat2000]

Oh so the phone call from Phoebe was longer. It’d be great to know what else they had written for it.

Ray thinking the temple was inert is a solid reason for not joining him in Summerville. I know it still would seem out of character to not trust Egon’s continued research but that’s a perfectly fine explanation to go with his change in behavior.

It’s not the best but it’s definitely plausible. If only they had gone with that in the movie. I get they wanted Phoebe and the others to figure it out (and for the sake of the audience) but they could have had Ray say...”Egon called 10 years later about an old foe we faced in the 80s but we took care of that”...cop hangs up the phone.

[Light em Up]

Come to think of, that's another mystery - what did they ultimately decide to do with Egon's ashes.

I think it was during the visual commentary that Jason and Gil did where one of them mentioned how Janine opened the Hook & Ladder box while Egon was crossing over, and his ashes would rise and disappear into the sky.

[mrmichaelt]

I think it was during the visual commentary that Jason and Gil did where one of them mentioned how Janine opened the Hook & Ladder box while Egon was crossing over, and his ashes would rise and disappear into the sky.

Oh, interesting. Yeah, that would have been the way. I wish someone kept a list of reveals from that commentary.

[Light em Up]

I need to make a correction to something I wrote earlier. It seems the conversation with Ray and Egon regarding the temple actually took place prior to Egon leaving for Summerville. Ray felt they had permanently defeated Gozer, and if there were a temple in the mine, it would have created a crossrip prior to 1984. So, I suppose that still places him in denial about it later on.

I wish someone kept a list of reveals from that commentary.

Yeah, it seems lost to time now. I saw a reposting of it a few years back, but it has since been deleted. I wish they had done a commentary for the home video release instead.

[mrmichaelt]

I need to make a correction to something I wrote earlier. It seems the conversation with Ray and Egon regarding the temple actually took place prior to Egon leaving for Summerville. Ray felt they had permanently defeated Gozer, and if there were a temple in the mine, it would have created a crossrip prior to 1984. So, I suppose that still places him in denial about it later on.

Hmm, and we do know the mining company was started in 1927 and the mass suicide of miners caused it to be closed in the '1940s' and the dates previous to 1984 predicting when conditions were rip for a crossrip were 1908 and 1945. I was always curious about the mechanics of the temples like why did the NYC temple become the dominant structure where Gozer crossed over and not the Summerville one in 1984. Because between the two, NYC had the higher ambient P.K.E. level at the time? And thus in 2021, with the NYC one long one the Summerville one automatically was the dominant structure and activated?

I saw a reposting of it a few years back, but it has since been deleted. I wish they had done a commentary for the home video release instead.

It got reposted?! Dah. I'm so bummed I missed it...

Yeah, I wish they did, too.

[Light em Up]

I was always curious about the mechanics of the temples like why did the NYC temple become the dominant structure where Gozer crossed over and not the Summerville one in 1984. Because between the two, NYC had the higher ambient P.K.E. level at the time? And thus in 2021, with the NYC one long one the Summerville one automatically was the dominant structure and activated?

Egon mentioned a few times in his journal that the Summerville temple was intended as a back door in case the '84 crossrip was unsuccessful. Not sure how Shandor was controlling the order in which they triggered. It seems like that would be outside his control, unless he was practicing some magic on the level of Vigo. He did defy death, so perhaps it isn't a stretch to say that he was. I'm also unsure of why Shandor was present at the event in Summerville, instead of the one in New York. Did he know that one would fail?

That whole sequence of dates raises a lot of questions about Gozer and how many times it actually returned. Depending on the answers, maybe it really is "Gozer the Bonehead," lol.

It got reposted?! Dah. I'm so bummed I missed it...

Yeah, a user on Youtube that has a GB-themed channel posted it on a google drive. I would have archived it, but the downloads were disabled.

As I recall, it didn't have a ton of new information. The two things that stood out to me were Gil saying they considered having an active cult in Summerville at one point during the development. Also, Jason describing having to cut the Janine subplot due to time as "one of the great heartbreaks of the production," and how that story ended with the ashes floating away.

[Kingpin]

Not sure how Shandor was controlling the order in which they triggered.

Maybe it was based on the concentration of P.K.E./spiritual turbulence in the respective locations... With a city the size of New York generating a far higher level at a far higher rate than a small dump like Summerville.

-Which can provides a tidy explanation for why it took 30 years for the backup temple in the mine to reach saturation point compared to the one on Central Park West.

I'm also unsure of why Shandor was present at the event in Summerville, instead of the one in New York. Did he know that one would fail?[/quote[

Maybe by the time he'd finished his work in New York, his unethical surgical past caught up with him, and so he fled to Oklahoma to escape the authorities.

[Light em Up]

Upon further thought, I agree it was probably due to their locations. Tough break for Shandor. Had the one in Summerville triggered first, the guys probably wouldn't have found it until Gozer had done some real damage.

Yeah, If Ivo was on the run, that could have been the point that he chose to "die" and hibernate. I suppose another theory could be that it was thought too risky to leave his body on the rooftop or even inside of a NYC high-rise.

[mrmichaelt]

Upon further thought, I agree it was probably due to their locations. Tough break for Shandor. Had the one in Summerville triggered first, the guys probably wouldn't have found it until Gozer had done some real damage.

Yeah, If Ivo was on the run, that could have been the point that he chose to "die" and hibernate. I suppose another theory could be that it was thought too risky to leave his body on the rooftop or even inside of a NYC high-rise.

I recall an GB1 draft where he was caught and executed in NYC. But yeah moot if canon. He could have been a fugitive, yeah.

I tend to lean to the ideas those years were years when it was most conducive to stir up paranormal activity but before Shandor built the two temples, there was no active similar mechanism to channel the energy and allow the Terror Dogs to cross over and do their ritual to bring Gozer through so it never returned to Earth until 1984. Like in the TVG and IDW canons, I forget if it was stated or implied that once Gozer was banished from Earth in Sumeria, Tiamat's cult destroyed Gozer's temple(s) and pretty much wiped out the Cult of Gozer. Even if that didn't happen in the movie canon, wars, pillaging and tomb raiding could have also rendered the temples inoperable. We know the mass suicide of the Summerville miners was May 1945 and Shandor died in 1945 and one of the dates was 1945. Seems like through all odds, the temple failed to gather enough P.K.E. (i.e. they tried to 'fill the meter' with the miners sacrificing themselves at the last minute but to no avail, it was a close call but no dice) and it wasn't until 1984 when enough was finally gathered in the NYC temple. And as Kingpin theorizes, took the Summerville temple nearly 40 years to accumulate enough P.K.E. for the ritual to trigger again.

One interesting tidbit in The Video Game was Shandor's estate was still being managed by a group called the Shandor Foundation. If something similar is in operation in the movie canon, maybe per his will, when the NYC temple failed as a precaution, they removed his body and the tomb from a hiding place in the building and transported it to the mine in Summerville. (so where was he in 1984 - maybe he got stuck on the stairs lol and didn't make it out of his hiding place to the roof to get blown up)

[Light em Up]

I tend to lean to the ideas those years were years when it was most conducive to stir up paranormal activity but before Shandor built the two temples, there was no active similar mechanism to channel the energy and allow the Terror Dogs to cross over and do their ritual to bring Gozer through so it never returned to Earth until 1984.

Yeah, me too. I don't like the implication that Gozer has possibly been failing at its mission since the 1300s. The first successful crossover being in '84 adds more oomph to its arrival in the first film. I recall when I first saw those numbers in Egon's farmhouse, I thought they were what had gotten the ball rolling on his obsession. May not be what happened, but it was a nice detail they tossed in.

One interesting tidbit in The Video Game was Shandor's estate was still being managed by a group called the Shandor Foundation. If something similar is in operation in the movie canon, maybe per his will, when the NYC temple failed as a precaution, they removed his body and the tomb from a hiding place in the building and transported it to the mine in Summerville.

I like the idea of someone possibly moving his body around. By 2021, his loyalists had likely all died, and that left Egon free to enter the mine and set up his gear.

(so where was he in 1984 - maybe he got stuck on the stairs lol and didn't make it out of his hiding place to the roof to get blown up)

The mess Venkman left on the 20th floor was the culprit, lol.

[Bison256]

I need to make a correction to something I wrote earlier. It seems the conversation with Ray and Egon regarding the temple actually took place prior to Egon leaving for Summerville. Ray felt they had permanently defeated Gozer, and if there were a temple in the mine, it would have created a crossrip prior to 1984. So, I suppose that still places him in denial about it later on.

Hmm, and we do know the mining company was started in 1927 and the mass suicide of miners caused it to be closed in the '1940s' and the dates previous to 1984 predicting when conditions were rip for a crossrip were 1908 and 1945. I was always curious about the mechanics of the temples like why did the NYC temple become the dominant structure where Gozer crossed over and not the Summerville one in 1984. Because between the two, NYC had the higher ambient P.K.E. level at the time? And thus in 2021, with the NYC one long one the Summerville one automatically was the dominant structure and activated?

Except the truck Egon was driving was once owned by the company was a 1963 if I recall. Not a big deal but they must have still mined somewhere in that era but perhaps a different shaft?

[mrmichaelt]

Except the truck Egon was driving was once owned by the company was a 1963 if I recall. Not a big deal but they must have still mined somewhere in that era but perhaps a different shaft?

I think abandoned mines per government regulations still need to be worked on - i.e. closing sections, backfilling, environmental clean up - even if it takes decades. Maybe Shandor's estate complied by hiring 1 person to maintain/watch the land and bought new truck and equipment for the caretaker in the 60s and slapped the old logo on it. Then Egon eventually took the job, mostly to continue his research then go on the property without suspicion and build the particle thrower array over the pit, once the person retired.

[Bison256]

Upon further thought, I agree it was probably due to their locations. Tough break for Shandor. Had the one in Summerville triggered first, the guys probably wouldn't have found it until Gozer had done some real damage.

Yeah, If Ivo was on the run, that could have been the point that he chose to "die" and hibernate. I suppose another theory could be that it was thought too risky to leave his body on the rooftop or even inside of a NYC high-rise.

I thought it was clear he was physically dead even when he got up... but we are talking mad science so I suppose there's not much difference between sentient animated corpse and actually alive in context.

[An Invisible Bed]

Early 2000s seems like the best guess, maybe they dissolved shortly before 9/11.

But it does bug me the new movies are so vague and wishy washy about the details to the most burning question fans have had and that's just what happened to the guys since 2?

Especially given it's so slavish devoted to fanservice otherwise, it even references Egon's Crunch bar, but when it comes to the biggest question it's just "uhhh, they went defunct at some point"

Yes, I agree. But yes, if you think about it, I'm not so sure the business survived the 90s. Perhaps they stopped being a full-time business in 1997 and a part time/on call gig for them as they settled into their new jobs, copper theft in 98 or 99, 9/11, Egon takes off for Summerville.

It definitely surprised me that Back in Town started with a 1 year time skip to them moving to NYC. Potentially they could have started right after AL or months later, them being trained by all or some of the originals and they fill in more details about the end of the Ghostbusters, i.e. flashbacks, while dealing with a case that pops up i.e. a few ghosts like Muncher weren't captured by the Trap Field so they're picking off some minor ghosts and inadvertently disturb a local legend that leads to a bigger battle. Then make the second one Back in Town. And Dead Man's the third. Hell, I'd be fine with a tie-in canon novel that gives that.

It doesn't seem like they all encountered another Gozer, Vigo scale threat in their time together, you might think in the Ghostbusters universe some shit would have gone down on new years eve 1999 but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Instead it just seems like they probably had smaller scale busts that got less over time, but personally, I would say 1997 was their last relatively busy year, perhaps after that is when it transitioned to part time, reflecting the swing and the miss of reviving GB as a franchise irl with Extreme Ghostbusters lol.

It reflects, as so much of the new movies do, how things played out in real life, "work dried up" ie they stopped making new movies and it ended tragically because that's what happened in real life and they had to work their way around that.

We're a certain type of nerd, so we want the lore and backstory to be air tight, but real life intervened making it complicated and messy as real life often is.

But as much as I like the new movies I almost stop short of considering them "hard canon" and not an AU because I still like to imagine that timeline, following the video game perhaps, where they kept on busting together till they were old and grey.

[mrmichaelt]

But as much as I like the new movies I almost stop short of considering them "hard canon" and not an AU because I still like to imagine that timeline, following the video game perhaps, where they kept on busting together till they were old and grey.

And thankfully we got a take on that already with the comics by IDW. Unofficially, it ends around 1998 by my old calculations. Plus if you take certain time slip events throughout into account (the Christmas Scrooge one shot, the first Tiamat arc), they do indeed keep busting ghosts into their golden years.

[RiverofSlime]

To be honest I never paid much attention to that line. It feels like it was mostly for the trailer.