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By One time
#4961799
ZLevee wrote: November 27th, 2021, 1:07 am Though I think the the powering on effect should go to the pack power switch, not a wand switch,
I usually agree with everything you say. But c'mon man :)

GB1 elevator exit clearly shows Egon starting the cyclotron with the wand. As does the Rooftop scene... as does all of GB2. In fact the only reference in the entire GB movie franchise that starts the cyclotron with the pack switch is Ray in the elevator in Gb1.

Like I said before this pack should feature both methods. Which even using a power draw comms method between pack and wand should easily be possible by using a mechanical plunger switch in the hose end cap attachment (to detect if a wand is attached) and considering switch stagger positions by measuring ampere draw like AJ Quick said before.
Last edited by One time on November 27th, 2021, 11:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
#4961806
One time wrote: November 27th, 2021, 11:06 am
ZLevee wrote: November 27th, 2021, 1:07 am Though I think the the powering on effect should go to the pack power switch, not a wand switch,
I usually agree with everything you say. But c'mon man :)
LOL
One time wrote: November 27th, 2021, 11:06 am GB1 elevator exit clearly shows Egon starting the cyclotron with the wand. As does the Rooftop scene... as does all of GB2. In fact the only reference in the entire GB movie franchise that starts the cyclotron with the pack switch is Ray in the elevator in Gb1.

Like I said before this pack should feature both methods. Which even using a power draw comms method between pack and wand should easily be possible by using a mechanical plunger switch in the hose end cap attachment (to detect if a wand is attached) and considering switch stagger positions by measuring ampere draw like AJ Quick said before.
Are we sure of that? Why would Ray need his pack flipped on then? For the elevator scene, the interior shot ends and there’s a gap until the guys are coming out into the hallway, where it would make sense that in between, Egon and Peter’s packs would have been flipped on just like Ray’s had to be.

I don’t have time right now to check all the activation scenes but I’m curious if there’s actually contrary evidence, or if, since it seemed to be required for Ray, other instances were just not specifically depicted once they showed us that, and could be assumed to have occurred off-camera.
Last edited by ZLevee on November 27th, 2021, 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ProtonPack83, Kingpin liked this
#4961809
ZLevee wrote: November 27th, 2021, 11:45 am
One time wrote: November 27th, 2021, 11:06 am

I usually agree with everything you say. But c'mon man :)
LOL
One time wrote: November 27th, 2021, 11:06 am GB1 elevator exit clearly shows Egon starting the cyclotron with the wand. As does the Rooftop scene... as does all of GB2. In fact the only reference in the entire GB movie franchise that starts the cyclotron with the pack switch is Ray in the elevator in Gb1.

Like I said before this pack should feature both methods. Which even using a power draw comms method between pack and wand should easily be possible by using a mechanical plunger switch in the hose end cap attachment (to detect if a wand is attached) and considering switch stagger positions by measuring ampere draw like AJ Quick said before.
Are we sure of that? Why would Ray need his pack flipped on then? For the elevator scene, the interior shot ends and there’s a gap until the guys are coming out into the hallway, where it would make sense that in between, Egon and Peter’s packs would have been flipped on just like Ray’s had to be.

I don’t have time right now to check all the activation scenes but I’m curious if there’s actually contrary evidence, or if, since it seemed to be required for Ray, other instances were just not specifically depicted once they showed us that, and could be assumed to have occurred off-camera.
No, GB1 elevator exit you clearly see Egon's finger flipping the wand switch and the cyclotron sound activating. Same with the rooftop. Same with GB2 courtroom scene. You even see the switch positions. In all of these scenes the pack switch is already flipped. The pack is just in stand-by mode because of the wand.

The only time in all of GB that the cyclotron sound comes on with the pack switch is inside the elevator when Egon flips Ray's switch. It makes sense. Both Egon and Peter already had the pack switch flipped, so they could activate it using the wand.

Ray's was the only pack that had the main switch off. His wand was primed so the pack switch immediately turned on the cylotron.

Then wandering the Hotel halls he switched it off using the wand switch.... until he meets Slimer: "I'm gonna have to hold him myself" and fires his cyclotron back up with his wand switch.

It's all thought out. Watch the scenes!
ZLevee liked this
#4961811
I'd always thought it was the switch on the pack turns on the pack itself. The 2nd switch on the box of the thrower turns on the thrower that allows the electromagnets inside the wand to start releasing the proton particles. The 2nd switch doesn't turn on the pack. The reason they don't show it again is because it is already established in the universe of how to turn on the pack, and it also would ruin the flow of the movie if they had to show everyone turning everyone's pack on every single time.
Chris Weitzel, THawke, ZLevee and 1 others liked this
#4961823
The discussion on the activation method is pretty irrelevant. The real world explanation is that switching it on from the pack was strictly done to provide a punchline to the "untested equipment" joke - Egon backing nervously away from Ray.

Consider that, until Afterlife, there was no switch anywhere near the area that Egon uses to activate Ray's pack. Jason Reitman has even said he included the scene of Podcast turning on the pack specifically to address that missing switch. Basically, the "switch" Egon is supposed to be flipping was just done as a throwaway gag. They wanted the comedic moment and never, ever thought a group of fans would so heavily disect the movie, let alone the equipment.

This then creates an in-universe continuity error that can't fully be explained away. In the elevator, sure, Egon and Peter's packs could have been switched on before they got out. But in the courtroom scene, there are no cuts between them strapping up and avtivating the pack via thrower. Not to mention, you can clearly see the cyclotron lights are off, which I would assume means the pack has not been activated in any way at all. And I don't buy a "sleep mode", either. Because there is no way they would have had those weapons in the courtroom without the packs having been completely shut off, anyway.
Last edited by Ryusui on November 27th, 2021, 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#4961826
Ryusui wrote: November 27th, 2021, 4:33 pm The discussion on the activation method is pretty irrelevant. The real world explanation is that switching it on from the pack was strictly done to provide a punchline to the "untested equipment" joke - Egon backing nervously away from Ray.

Consider that, until Afterlife, there was no switch anywhere near the area that Egon uses to activate Ray's pack. Jason Reitman has even said he included the scene of Podcast turning on the pack specifically to address that missing switch. Basically, the "switch" Egon is supposed to be flipping was just done as a throwaway gag. They wanted the comedic moment and never, ever thought a group of fans would so heavily disect the movie, let alone the equipment.

This then creates an in-universe continuity error that can't fully be explained away. In the elevator, sure, Egon and Peter's packs could have been switched on before they got out. But in the courtroom scene, there are no cuts between them strapping up and avtivating the pack via thrower. Not to mention, you can clearly see the cyclotron lights are off, which I would assume means the pack has not been activated in any way at all. And I don't buy a "sleep mode", either. Because there is no way they would have had those weapons in the courtroom without the packs having been completely shut off, anyway.
Okay, try this idea off the top of my head:

There are two ways to activate the pack--a switch on the back (per the scene in GB1 and the canon switch in GBA) and the switch on the thrower as you noted in GB2.

Ray asked Egon to throw the pack switch in the elevator because this was the first time they were being taken out on the field. Because Egon would be right there looking at the pack, he could see a number of potentially obvious visual cues that things were working or not working as intended, and if it looked really bad could switch it back off before Ray had any idea yet that something was wrong and could shut it off from his end.

In the courtroom, they used the thrower switches because they were in a hurry and knew (hoped) Ray and Winston had been maintaining them; plus even though it had been a "couple of years" it may have been habit/muscle memory brought on by months (possibly years) of prior use.
#4961828
Ryusui wrote: November 27th, 2021, 4:33 pm The discussion on the activation method is pretty irrelevant. The real world explanation is that switching it on from the pack was strictly done to provide a punchline to the "untested equipment" joke - Egon backing nervously away from Ray.

Consider that, until Afterlife, there was no switch anywhere near the area that Egon uses to activate Ray's pack. Jason Reitman has even said he included the scene of Podcast turning on the pack specifically to address that missing switch. Basically, the "switch" Egon is supposed to be flipping was just done as a throwaway gag. They wanted the comedic moment and never, ever thought a group of fans would so heavily disect the movie, let alone the equipment.

This then creates an in-universe continuity error that can't fully be explained away. In the elevator, sure, Egon and Peter's packs could have been switched on before they got out. But in the courtroom scene, there are no cuts between them strapping up and avtivating the pack via thrower. Not to mention, you can clearly see the cyclotron lights are off, which I would assume means the pack has not been activated in any way at all. And I don't buy a "sleep mode", either. Because there is no way they would have had those weapons in the courtroom without the packs having been completely shut off, anyway.
Regardless of how often the pack switch was used, or what we see in the original 2 movies, Afterlife and Jason himself (through other comments) has retconned all of that. In canon, the pack needs to be turned on via switch on the pack itself
ZLevee liked this
#4961829
also it wouldn’t make sense for Egon and peters packs to already been switched on in the elevator scene because that defeats the whole reaction of switching on the pack for the first time.

I was hoping afterlife would have a definitive explanation but even their pack had their own made up rules.

Even hasbros had to make up theur own boot sequence (I’m not a fan at all of the initial mini boot up sound btw)
#4961830
bobafett321 wrote: November 27th, 2021, 5:29 pm Regardless of how often the pack switch was used, or what we see in the original 2 movies, Afterlife and Jason himself (through other comments) has retconned all of that. In canon, the pack needs to be turned on via switch on the pack itself
Hey, don't look at me. All I'm saying is that there is no consistency between the movies and it's impossible to make it all connect.
#4961832
Ryusui wrote: November 27th, 2021, 6:03 pm
bobafett321 wrote: November 27th, 2021, 5:29 pm Regardless of how often the pack switch was used, or what we see in the original 2 movies, Afterlife and Jason himself (through other comments) has retconned all of that. In canon, the pack needs to be turned on via switch on the pack itself
Hey, don't look at me. All I'm saying is that there is no consistency between the movies and it's impossible to make it all connect.
Not really. In movies usually things are explained or shown only once and then it's assumed throughout the rest of the film or franchise that is how it works. The very first time we see a proton pack, to include the wand, turned on is in the elevator. That scene established that the pack needs to be turned on before anything else works. It doesn't matter what else we see, the director and writers assume we understand how things work. It is done this way to ensure that movie pacing stays where it needs to be.

Since GB2 almost requires the audience to be familiar with GB1, it's fair to assume the writers and director ( who happened to be the exact same people who did the first one) expected the Ghostbusters to audience to have seen the first one, thus the Canon transfers over, again to keep up with the pacing and not to insult the audience.

Since Afterlife was filmed and takes place almost 30 years later, it's safe to assume that the audience has changed and thus they need to re-establish the cannon.

So it's not that the Ghostbusters Series has inconsistencies, it's that people are ignoring the Canon as its established.
ZLevee liked this
#4961844
Ecto_1X wrote: November 27th, 2021, 1:15 pm I'd always thought it was the switch on the pack turns on the pack itself. The 2nd switch on the box of the thrower turns on the thrower that allows the electromagnets inside the wand to start releasing the proton particles. The 2nd switch doesn't turn on the pack. The reason they don't show it again is because it is already established in the universe of how to turn on the pack, and it also would ruin the flow of the movie if they had to show everyone turning everyone's pack on every single time.
I think this is probably right.
ProtonPack83 liked this
#4961846
jonogunn wrote: November 27th, 2021, 5:30 pm also it wouldn’t make sense for Egon and peters packs to already been switched on in the elevator scene because that defeats the whole reaction of switching on the pack for the first time.

I was hoping afterlife would have a definitive explanation but even their pack had their own made up rules.

Even hasbros had to make up theur own boot sequence (I’m not a fan at all of the initial mini boot up sound btw)
The comment was that after that comedic scene ends, we don’t see what happens from there — though we do see them enter the hallway, there is some gap in time there, while the elevator reaches the correct floor, in which the other packs were flipped on:
Last edited by ZLevee on November 27th, 2021, 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#4961847
Ryusui wrote: November 27th, 2021, 4:33 pm The discussion on the activation method is pretty irrelevant. The real world explanation is that switching it on from the pack was strictly done to provide a punchline to the "untested equipment" joke - Egon backing nervously away from Ray.

Consider that, until Afterlife, there was no switch anywhere near the area that Egon uses to activate Ray's pack. Jason Reitman has even said he included the scene of Podcast turning on the pack specifically to address that missing switch. Basically, the "switch" Egon is supposed to be flipping was just done as a throwaway gag. They wanted the comedic moment and never, ever thought a group of fans would so heavily disect the movie, let alone the equipment.

This then creates an in-universe continuity error that can't fully be explained away. In the elevator, sure, Egon and Peter's packs could have been switched on before they got out. But in the courtroom scene, there are no cuts between them strapping up and avtivating the pack via thrower. Not to mention, you can clearly see the cyclotron lights are off, which I would assume means the pack has not been activated in any way at all. And I don't buy a "sleep mode", either. Because there is no way they would have had those weapons in the courtroom without the packs having been completely shut off, anyway.
“ But in the courtroom scene, there are no cuts between them strapping up and avtivating the pack via thrower.”

First, this is just not true, as there are several cuts as the packs are put on:


Second, Peter puts on his pack totally off camera as we hear him groaning prior to complaining about the weight, and could have activated his own switch then.

Third, as we here Peter complain about the weight, Egon and Ray are then finishing putting their packs on off-camera, where the switches could be flipped.

Bobafett321 and I are on the same page on this, that movies establish things then give you snippets from there on out to not bog down the pacing. Think about how many superhero movies show the heroes suiting up. Do we watch their whole dressing process or do we just get bits and pieces to convey they are suiting up? Usually it’s more involved the first time, and just snippets later.
Last edited by ZLevee on November 27th, 2021, 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4961851
ZLevee wrote: November 27th, 2021, 9:16 pm“ But in the courtroom scene, there are no cuts between them strapping up and avtivating the pack via thrower.”

First, this is just not true, as there are several cuts as the packs are put on:
Sigh.

I figured we were talking apples for apples here and that I didn't need to be super 100% specific with my words.

THERE IS NOT AN EXACT SIMILAR CUT IN THE COURTROOM SCENE WHERE WE LEAVE ONE SETTING AND ARE PUT INTO A NEW ONE AS THE CHARACTERS ENTER.

Better? And also, why would we not hear the packs being powered up, then? If it was meant that they are to be...

Nevermind. I haven't seen bigger reaches in logic since "the moon landing was faked." There are so much farfetched explanations and denial over what was just some simple visual gag that had no implications and no thought outside of "this would be funny to see."
deadderek liked this
#4961855
Honestly the only way to enjoy these movies and this kind of hobby is to completely forget about it making perfect sense. YOU HAVE to put yourself in the mindset of a 6 year old where it's just fun to pretend and it just works because it just did on the screen. Remember this is a world where ghosts exist.
Alphagaia, metroplex liked this
#4961860
GhostFaceX wrote: November 28th, 2021, 1:18 am Honestly the only way to enjoy these movies and this kind of hobby is to completely forget about it making perfect sense. YOU HAVE to put yourself in the mindset of a 6 year old where it's just fun to pretend and it just works because it just did on the screen. Remember this is a world where ghosts exist.

I agree.

This debate sparked from the switch on the pack as well as switch functionality on the wand.
GhostFaceX, Alphagaia liked this
#4961866
Ryusui wrote: November 28th, 2021, 12:14 am
ZLevee wrote: November 27th, 2021, 9:16 pm“ But in the courtroom scene, there are no cuts between them strapping up and avtivating the pack via thrower.”

First, this is just not true, as there are several cuts as the packs are put on:
Sigh.

I figured we were talking apples for apples here and that I didn't need to be super 100% specific with my words.

THERE IS NOT AN EXACT SIMILAR CUT IN THE COURTROOM SCENE WHERE WE LEAVE ONE SETTING AND ARE PUT INTO A NEW ONE AS THE CHARACTERS ENTER.

Better? And also, why would we not hear the packs being powered up, then? If it was meant that they are to be...
Actually as I said before, there are several cuts just during the part where they put the packs on. Also during the parts we do see there are also several things happening off-screen (to the side).

Pack sounds - doesn't mean anything, as packs sounds incongruous throughout the films - for example we should hear the hum of ray's pack In GB1 when he steps off the elevator but it's silent at that point.
Ryusui wrote: November 28th, 2021, 12:14 am Nevermind. I haven't seen bigger reaches in logic since "the moon landing was faked." There are so much farfetched explanations and denial over what was just some simple visual gag that had no implications and no thought outside of "this would be funny to see."
Quite an exaggeration. There really haven't been many reaches in logic, farfetched explanations, or denial of whatever you feel is being denied, at all. I don't think you get, THAT WE ALL GET, that it's a meant to be a fun movie, not a historical documentary (we know what Star Trek is - we are not the aliens in Galaxy Quest). We're just trying to agree upon what would be the ideal way to operate this Hasbro Pack, and have it interact with the wand. We know the filmmakers took it much less seriously. Are we clear? Do you feel better now?
Last edited by ZLevee on November 28th, 2021, 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
metroplex liked this
#4961870
GhostFaceX wrote: November 28th, 2021, 1:18 am Honestly the only way to enjoy these movies and this kind of hobby is to completely forget about it making perfect sense. YOU HAVE to put yourself in the mindset of a 6 year old where it's just fun to pretend and it just works because it just did on the screen. Remember this is a world where ghosts exist.
I'm certainly not trying to have it make perfect sense - when I watch it I just watch it. I don't pick the "engineering" apart like this forum's debates on the pack and wand do.

So why has the conversation gone this way? Remember, you're talking to a group of people who freeze-frame the crap out of this thing to get every costume detail right.

For me, I don't stress about every costume detail. I for one am not advocating strict canon. All I was ever saying here is that the Hasbro pack would be more fun if it responded to the things done with the wand, even if these behaviors are non-canon (which many here have a problem with), as long as they don't violate canon. Like if we never see some lights dip or speed up, but it's plausible that some operations might display like that but we've never seen it because we only catch quick glimpses of the pack in some situations, then it'd be cool to implement that. That's it. Make a cool toy.
metroplex liked this
#4961872
ZLevee wrote: November 28th, 2021, 2:30 am
GhostFaceX wrote: November 28th, 2021, 1:18 am Honestly the only way to enjoy these movies and this kind of hobby is to completely forget about it making perfect sense. YOU HAVE to put yourself in the mindset of a 6 year old where it's just fun to pretend and it just works because it just did on the screen. Remember this is a world where ghosts exist.
I'm certainly not trying to have it make perfect sense - when I watch it I just watch it. I don't pick the "engineering" apart like this forum's debates on the pack and wand do.

So why has the conversation gone this way? Remember, you're talking to a group of people who freeze-frame the crap out of this thing to get every costume detail right.

For me, I don't stress about every costume detail. I for one am not advocating strict canon. All I was ever saying here is that the Hasbro pack would be more fun if it responded to the things done with the wand, even if these behaviors are non-canon (which many here have a problem with), as long as they don't violate canon. Like if we never see some lights dip or speed up, but it's plausible that some operations might display like that but we've never seen it because we only catch quick glimpses of the pack in some situations, then it'd be cool to implement that. That's it. Make a cool toy.
Lol I’m literally watching GB1 again for the millionth time (I’ve watched it like ten times this last week) to find the true color of the belt. I just know it would drive me insane to try and make sense of the technology and things like the proper switch sequence (since it would but me if my toy isn’t perfectly accurate). A movie that is inconsistent is actually a godsend.

Anyway for anyone who doesn’t want your mini pufts please let me know and take them off your hands :) one thing people might not realize is people will buy your bonus tiers from you and help with the cost of this pack.
ZLevee liked this
#4961891
ZLevee wrote: November 28th, 2021, 2:16 am
Pack sounds - doesn't mean anything, as packs sounds incongruous throughout the films - for example we should hear the hum of ray's pack In GB1 when he steps off the elevator but it's silent at that point.
Nope. He switched it off with his wand switch before leaving the elevator. You can clearly see him turn it on again a few moments later when he says "Gotta hold him myself". The entire corridor is silent when he says this. His cyclotron is not on.
#4961894
ZLevee wrote: November 27th, 2021, 8:53 pm
Ecto_1X wrote: November 27th, 2021, 1:15 pm I'd always thought it was the switch on the pack turns on the pack itself. The 2nd switch on the box of the thrower turns on the thrower that allows the electromagnets inside the wand to start releasing the proton particles. The 2nd switch doesn't turn on the pack. The reason they don't show it again is because it is already established in the universe of how to turn on the pack, and it also would ruin the flow of the movie if they had to show everyone turning everyone's pack on every single time.
I think this is probably right.
I don't think that's right because we clearly hear the wand switch turn on the pack cyclotron. (Egon elevator exit, Ray "Gotta hold him myself", Rooftop scene, GB2 Do Ray Egon scene.) The wand switch starts the pack cyclotron.

I think it's obvious. The pack switch is MASSIVE and red. The wand switch is a tiny toggle switch. You can't expect both to do the same thing.

The wand can ONLY turn on and off the cyclotron if the pack master switch is on.
If the wand happens to have activate flipped then turning the pack switch on immediately turns on the cyclotron (inside elevator Ray scene).

It's really straight forward. I'm trying hard but I can't seem to make it as complicated or inconsistent as you guys.

The wand switch is like your TV remote control that can turn your tv on and off. The pack switch is like the electricity plug going into your tv. The remote is useless unless your tv is plugged in.
#4961901
OK everyone I also hear people that we don’t want to talk about switches forever and I’m fine with that as well. I would like to say that personally there’s nothing upsetting about any of this and I’m kinda surprised at some of the reactions. Also, for my part, the point is what we would like for behaviors out of the Hasbro pack, so the switch discussion seems relevant to the thread.

Anyway the following is meant to just be a matter of fact response to more recent comments in what I hope is just a friendly discussion, whether we wrap it up or anyone has more to say and it continues:
One time wrote: November 28th, 2021, 9:05 am I don't think that's right because we clearly hear the wand switch turn on the pack cyclotron. (Egon elevator exit, Ray "Gotta hold him myself", Rooftop scene, GB2 Do Ray Egon scene.) The wand switch starts the pack cyclotron.
All some of us are saying is that (A) it doesn’t have to be the case that every action is always shown, as movies don’t usually do that. (B) in-universe, the characters would behave like scientists and possibly like engineers, and therefore would want the switch sequence to matter as a safety function - so being able to fire if the switches got jostled during handling (like loading/unloading from Ecto-1) would be a no-no.

To your specific examples, maybe it’s film discontinuity, or maybe the wand is merely bringing the cyclotron out of some kind of sleep mode.
One time wrote: November 28th, 2021, 9:05 am I think it's obvious. The pack switch is MASSIVE and red. The wand switch is a tiny toggle switch. You can't expect both to do the same thing.
I don’t think most involved in this discussion have said otherwise.
One time wrote: November 28th, 2021, 9:05 am The wand can ONLY turn on and off the cyclotron if the pack master switch is on.
If the wand happens to have activate flipped then turning the pack switch on immediately turns on the cyclotron (inside elevator Ray scene).
This is possible. The other view is that scientists, like engineers, would want the sequence to matter as a safety function. I’m not married to either view, was just making the case for the one that seems like what the in-universe characters would do if it were real, rather than what a prop maker or director did.
One time wrote: November 28th, 2021, 9:05 am It's really straight forward. I'm trying hard but I can't seem to make it as complicated or inconsistent as you guys.
Neither view is complicated or inconsistent. Either way, it’s a movie - either we accept (version #1) that the operation of the device is sloppy and open to accidental firing because it’s a movie and nobody thought it through like a scientist/engineer, or we accept (version #2) that Egon and Ray acted like scientists/engineers and built the devices to be safe, but the films don’t depict every instance of every action and things happen off-camera.
One time wrote: November 28th, 2021, 9:05 am The wand switch is like your TV remote control that can turn your tv on and off. The pack switch is like the electricity plug going into your tv. The remote is useless unless your tv is plugged in.
The example you’re giving here is actually closer to the point of view I had, in that you can’t press power on the remote on an unplugged TV and then plug it in and expect the TV go on - the TV would have to be plugged in first, so the sequence would actually matter.
metroplex liked this
#4961928
One time wrote: November 27th, 2021, 12:50 pm No, GB1 elevator exit you clearly see Egon's finger flipping the wand switch and the cyclotron sound activating.
There's still the gap between Egon backing away from Ray's Pack, and the guys stepping out of the elevator. The reasonable conclusion to make, considering they had the whole "switch me on" sequence moments ago is that Egon and Peter's Packs were turned on the same way before they stepped out onto the 12th Floor.

While what Egon does results in the same or similar noise to the main start up, I don't believe it was meant to suggest you activated the whole Pack from the wand, just that Egon in that instance was activating his thrower.

The courtroom battle sequence isn't as definitive a source as it should be, because it's likely when they were plotting it, the production team and actors had forgotten entirely about the "main switch" from the sequence from the Sedgewick Hotel elevator.

In the meantime, I'm tempted to split off the activation process discussion to a separate topic.
One time wrote: November 28th, 2021, 9:00 am Nope. He switched it off with his wand switch before leaving the elevator. You can clearly see him turn it on again a few moments later when he says "Gotta hold him myself". The entire corridor is silent when he says this. His cyclotron is not on.
Yet the Cyclotrons are visibly active with flashing red lights when the guys are watching Mr. Stay Puft walk up Central Park West without making an audible sound.

It seems fair to conclude the Cyclotron was active in the whole stretch of time between the moment they blasted the maid's cart and when Ray bumped into Slimer, he likely just had the safety on and the thrower powered down to avoid a repeat of the cart incident.
deadderek, mrmichaelt, ZLevee and 1 others liked this
By gerv
#4962013
GB2 was influenced by the cartoon so it wouldn't surprise me if the packs were activated by switches on the throwers same as in the cartoon. GB2 also basically mimicked the simplified trapping sequence from RGB with the foot staying on the pedal to keep it open rather than how it was in gb1 with one press to open it and another to close it. Not to mention in GB2 the trap also started pulling the ghosts in when it was opened (same as the cartoon) vs the first movie where the light would emit when it was opened but it only started pulling them in once the trap pedal was hit again to close it.
ZLevee liked this
#4962081
Kingpin wrote: November 28th, 2021, 1:27 pm
One time wrote: November 27th, 2021, 12:50 pm No, GB1 elevator exit you clearly see Egon's finger flipping the wand switch and the cyclotron sound activating.
There's still the gap between Egon backing away from Ray's Pack, and the guys stepping out of the elevator. The reasonable conclusion to make, considering they had the whole "switch me on" sequence moments ago is that Egon and Peter's Packs were turned on the same way before they stepped out onto the 12th Floor.

While what Egon does results in the same or similar noise to the main start up, I don't believe it was meant to suggest you activated the whole Pack from the wand, just that Egon in that instance was activating his thrower.

The courtroom battle sequence isn't as definitive a source as it should be, because it's likely when they were plotting it, the production team and actors had forgotten entirely about the "main switch" from the sequence from the Sedgewick Hotel elevator.

In the meantime, I'm tempted to split off the activation process discussion to a separate topic.
One time wrote: November 28th, 2021, 9:00 am Nope. He switched it off with his wand switch before leaving the elevator. You can clearly see him turn it on again a few moments later when he says "Gotta hold him myself". The entire corridor is silent when he says this. His cyclotron is not on.
Yet the Cyclotrons are visibly active with flashing red lights when the guys are watching Mr. Stay Puft walk up Central Park West without making an audible sound.

It seems fair to conclude the Cyclotron was active in the whole stretch of time between the moment they blasted the maid's cart and when Ray bumped into Slimer, he likely just had the safety on and the thrower powered down to avoid a repeat of the cart incident.
It makes no sense to me that the proton pack and the thrower make the exact same (deep bass) activation sound if the sound indicates a different function in each. Like identical. As if there are two proton packs, not a proton pack and a thrower. Two different complex machines that do different things cannot make an identical activation sound.

The activation sound happening when the 4 red cyclotron lights are already on, means it is a separate function? What IS the activation sound? We don't even know. Is it the cyclotron starting? Is it the 4 electromagnets getting electricity IN ANTICIPATION of the cyclotron starting? Who knows.

I think the reality is that detail in the scenes just aren't thought out as much as we would like. A director of photography might want lights in one scene and an activation sound effect might be crucial at another moment where the lights are already on. They just aren't connected in terms of functionality.

GB1 has many mistakes like that. The 2 white lights on Ray's pack in the hotel where the paint rubbed off. The cyclotron going clockwise in one shot, anti clockwise in another shot, etc. The bargraph scrolling in one scene and static in another. It's just a mess.

I think we as fans of the franchise almost have a job as a prop master when we try to decide on our own head canon. Ivan Reitman didn't really do it so we end up each making our own.

However in doing so there are fans who are experienced in mechanical engineering and GUI design and even though (obviously) all of our opinions are valid, the truth is that some explanations are more plausible than others. If there is no definitive canon defined by Sony. Which appears to be the case.

Like I said, my own interpretation is that the pack switch is a master switch that enables the wand switches to work.
If the pack switch is off, the wand won't do anything. Which makes perfect sense as the pack switch is recessed, hidden, turns on to the right (i.e. away from the edge of the pack so can only be turned off by accident, not on), is big and RED. The thrower power switch and activation switch are two tiny toggle switches that could snag on anything.

The wand is like a TV remote control (with toggle switches instead of buttons).

-If your TV electricity plug (pack switch) is unplugged, the remote control will do nothing.
-If the TV is plugged in, the remote control can start and shut off the TV.
-If the remote control (toggle switch remember!) power and activate switches are ALREADY on, then plugging in the TV (pack switch) turns the TV on instantly

That sequence is in line with every activation scene seen in the movies (GB1 Ray elevator (pack switch), GB1 Egon elevator exit (wand switch), GB1 rooftop scene (wand switch), GB2 courtroom scene Do-Ray-Egon (wand switch).

The sequence is in line with actor's fingers switch movements and startup sound effect. Like Kingpin says it is NOT inline with the red leds of the cyclotron going lit or not. In my head canon I'd be happy enough with on screen switches flipped with accompanying cyclotron sound effects. The 4 red leds not being synced up I grant as simple production mistakes or necessities of cinematography and photography.

I am open to a sequence that makes more logical sense or is more plausible.
User avatar
By Welsh Pirate
#4962763
Well, to throw a couple more wrenches in to this conversation, I was watching some scenes at .25 speed and noticed some interesting things.

Firstly, when Ray steps out of the elevator in the Sedgewick, he pulls his wand, extends the tip. It's hard to catch but he then immediately flips the "ACTIVATE" switch. No lights on the wand turn on, and there is no sound effect (the editor probably didn't notice he flicked a switch).

Then Egon walks out of the elevator and, judging by his hand placement, flicks the "ACTIVATE" switch. Since Ramis telegraphs this switch flip, the editor puts in the charging sound effect. But still no lights are turned on on the wand as far as I can tell.

Later, Ray finds Slimer in the hallway. You can clearly see his thumb swing over the handle to flip the lower front panel switch, and this turns on at least some of the lights on the wand, including the top vent light. This also gets a charging sound effect, which is all consistent with the "Heat 'em up" close-up.

In GB2, they give us a couple of clear close-ups in the courthouse scene showing them use the "ACTIVATE" switch to turn on all of the lights on the wand, coupled with the charging sound effect. Then they also have the charging sound effect every time the beam is fired.

Now, in Afterlife, they make sure to clearly show us their new sequence. Which seems to be that the Ion Arm switch turns on the pack, which is associated with the charging sound effect. The "ACTIVATE" switch starts an electric hum, turns on the bar graph, top white blinker, and slo-blo light. The front panel lower switch pitches up the humming sound, and turns on the top vent light. The front panel upper switch pitches up the hum again, and starts a beeping sound effect. I can't tell if this one turns on any lights, as the white light near the front knob is obscured throughout the shot.

Moral of the story: it all seems pretty inconsistent, so might as well just decide your own head canon for it.
ZLevee liked this
User avatar
By Ecto_1X
#4962768
Welsh Pirate wrote: December 5th, 2021, 4:26 pm Well, to throw a couple more wrenches in to this conversation, I was watching some scenes at .25 speed and noticed some interesting things.

Firstly, when Ray steps out of the elevator in the Sedgewick, he pulls his wand, extends the tip. It's hard to catch but he then immediately flips the "ACTIVATE" switch. No lights on the wand turn on, and there is no sound effect (the editor probably didn't notice he flicked a switch).

Then Egon walks out of the elevator and, judging by his hand placement, flicks the "ACTIVATE" switch. Since Ramis telegraphs this switch flip, the editor puts in the charging sound effect. But still no lights are turned on on the wand as far as I can tell.

Later, Ray finds Slimer in the hallway. You can clearly see his thumb swing over the handle to flip the lower front panel switch, and this turns on at least some of the lights on the wand, including the top vent light. This also gets a charging sound effect, which is all consistent with the "Heat 'em up" close-up.

In GB2, they give us a couple of clear close-ups in the courthouse scene showing them use the "ACTIVATE" switch to turn on all of the lights on the wand, coupled with the charging sound effect. Then they also have the charging sound effect every time the beam is fired.

Now, in Afterlife, they make sure to clearly show us their new sequence. Which seems to be that the Ion Arm switch turns on the pack, which is associated with the charging sound effect. The "ACTIVATE" switch starts an electric hum, turns on the bar graph, top white blinker, and slo-blo light. The front panel lower switch pitches up the humming sound, and turns on the top vent light. The front panel upper switch pitches up the hum again, and starts a beeping sound effect. I can't tell if this one turns on any lights, as the white light near the front knob is obscured throughout the shot.

Moral of the story: it all seems pretty inconsistent, so might as well just decide your own head canon for it.
Also, another wrench...as for Afterlife wise, the 2nd shot (deleted shot from the movie) in this teaser shows Phoebe switching the Activation switch last and we get the charging sound AND the vent light turning on with the other two switches on the Thrower box already switched to the ON position. LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdhKnrf97Uk

I really don't think they thought this through. Everything we know is inconsistent in all 3 movies.
User avatar
By jonogunn
#4962813
I was really honoring that they would set it straight in this movie. I mean Jason Reitman made. A big deal of attention to detail by adding the ion arm switch to “fix” continuity. However it seemed to have stopped there and they didn’t put much thought into the rest.

I’m even surprised they never noticed that the wand tip was extended in the wide shot of the pack prior to the “safety off” line. How the heck did you guys miss that?!?

Then during the police station scene she boots up the wand with the sound effect AND the bargraph finally shows.

Then the car chase the wand tip doesn’t need to be extended. Why make a deal out of letting us know the wand tip extension is a safety feature only to dismiss it in this scene? Why show us the full activation of the pack from start to finish in detail only to contradict it in every other scene?
One time liked this
By oidoglr
#4962818
Ecto_1X wrote: December 5th, 2021, 5:20 pm I really don't think they thought this through. Everything we know is inconsistent in all 3 movies.
A part of me wants to believe the inconsistency at this point was an intentional choice to create yet another switch sequence by production for their own amusement knowing full well how pedants will squirm.

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